Organised Crime in Ireland

AmberGold

Recent court cases got me interested in the whole gangland thing in Ireland. It came out after the Paul Wells trial that he was an enforcer and INLA member.

There seems to be an inordinate amount of organised gangs and individuals involved in crime in Ireland at the moment.

From the Kinahans, the Byrnes, the Hutches, Romanians running the prostituion rings, Chinese Triads terrorising they own, Eastern European car thiefs, the RIRA and INLA with their drugs / extortion business, then theres the lads up the north and down in Limerick. Never mind the traveller gangs roaming Ireland and small time violent drug dealers in provincial towns.

Is it just me or is it getting a bit mental, they're everywhere.

howsitgoingboy

You would seem to be correct alright. Most offences have gone up since 2017 except for homicide offences.

McMurphy

Mandatory sentencing is the only solution if we want to stamp it out.

howsitgoingboy

i get you, but the prisons will argue that there isn't enough room for these people and not to mention the cost of keeping them in prison

Feisar

howsitgoingboy wrote: »

i get you, but the prisons will argue that there isn't enough room for these people and not to mention the cost of keeping them in prison

Shorter harsher sentences, i.e. plenty of solitary on bread and water rations.

Deebles McBeebles

This argument about there not being enough space in our prisons....why not build more prisons? Construction and prison officer jobs ahoy.

howsitgoingboy

Feisar wrote: »

Shorter harsher sentences, i.e. plenty of solitary on bread and water rations.

if there's shorter sentences then more than likely recidivism will rise

mynamejeff

the rewards wildly out weigh the risks , why wouldn't a person looking for easy money get involved

get caught and there is minimal punishment.

the biggest risk is other criminals

Atoms for Peace

What about the bloods and the crisp, homes?

enricoh

Apparently in 2018 its not possible to take fines out of social welfare payments in ireland. Half dole until you pay your fine of say e500.
Lads can clock up plenty of convictions before a sniff of jail n a few hours some day in the joy is far more preferable than the dole being cut.

Sofiztikated

enricoh wrote: »

Apparently in 2018 its not possible to take fines out of social welfare payments in ireland. Half dole until you pay your fine of say e500.
Lads can clock up plenty of convictions before a sniff of jail n a few hours some day in the joy is far more preferable than the dole being cut.

Realistically, do you think lads on multiple convictions would think twice about resorting to more crime to top up that half dole?

A mate of mine who has done a bit of time said the best thing that ever happened to him was getting a job where he made some decent money.

theguzman

If our Navy was patrolling the waters instead of ferrying economic migrants from Africa into Europe it would be a start. Ireland is a major trans-shipment destination for Cocaine and other Drugs from Colombia and South America, sail your yacht loaded with bales of coke across the Atlantic, rendezvous with Irish criminals offshore who'll bring it ashore for distribution across the EU. West Cork and Kerry are major smuggling areas due to many inlets, and sparsely populated, Govt decisions to close local Garda stations further facilitated this smugglers den.

SEPT 23 1989

mynamejeff wrote: »

the rewards wildly out weigh the risks , why wouldn't a person looking for easy money get involved

get caught and there is minimal punishment.

the biggest risk is other criminals

Cash is easy

Not being able to sleep at night and looking over your shoulder 24/7 is not

Prison is fine for some not for me

MadDog76

If you want to eradicate Organised Crime significantly then you need to remove their money source, ie. legalise their product.

Make all drugs legal and readily available (free for addicts if need be), legalise and regulate prostitution, reduce tax on cigarettes etc.

There's a lot to be learned from the Prohibition disaster in the US......

theguzman

MadDog76 wrote: »

If you want to eradicate Organised Crime significantly then you need to remove their money source, ie. legalise their product.

Make all drugs legal and readily available (free for addicts if need be), legalise and regulate prostitution, reduce tax on cigarettes etc.

There's a lot to be learned from the Prohibition disaster in the US......

Knowing Ireland they would tax things so highly that the Cartel would still be profitable by undercutting it as is the case with cigarettes.

klaaaz

The crime gangs are so numerous as they originated in the early 80's from the heroin epidemic where police and judicial control was disproportionately focused on the IRA for their operations up north yet the authorities ignored the homegrown drug lords who built their empires over many years. They had hundreds of members at their disposal in a time of economic deprivation.

If you want the government to build more prisons, you'll have to pay more taxes but many of the posters here oppose that. You can't have it both ways.

howsitgoingboy

klaaaz wrote: »

The crime gangs are so numerous as they originated in the early 80's from the heroin epidemic where police and judicial control was disproportionately focused on the IRA for their operations up north yet the authorities ignored the homegrown drug lords who built their empires over many years. They had hundreds of members at their disposal in a time of economic deprivation.

If you want the government to build more prisons, you'll have to pay more taxes but many of the posters here oppose that. You can't have it both ways.

this statement is 100% percent accurate, that was my initial point, its easy to say 'oh lets build more prisons' but as you said we'd have to pay more taxes and the fact of locating them in suitable areas.

Deebles McBeebles

I think if a new tax, a clear and transparent one, was introduced not many people would oppose it if they knew it was going directly into building prisons to keep scum off the streets.

Well, some would but not enough to count.

Thatnastyboy

There will always be organised crime, right now it pays to easy.


I reckon, - Double, or triple (quadruple?) the resources CAB have - costs less than €7m a year as it is. This means they could constantly and repeatedly hammer the fcuk out of anyone who can't prove the legitimacy of their money/things. Increased funding and resources to CAB will never be anything but money well spent.


No race card, no discrimination - just good old fashioned asset stripping. Give incentives for informants - rip them apart from the inside.

Og81

Build prisons /lock men up /create a vacuum/ filled by another.

Sociology discusses crime in all forms will always be prevalent in society.

KungPao

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I think if a new tax, a clear and transparent one, was introduced not many people would oppose it if they knew it was going directly into building prisons to keep scum off the streets.

Well, some would but not enough to count.

Another tax? Oy vey.

This plan would be end up with the usual outcome of jobs for the boys quangos, with the construction company being paid crazy money and other shenanigans.

Cordell

MadDog76 wrote: »

If you want to eradicate Organised Crime significantly then you need to remove their money source, ie. legalise their product.

What you don't want to have is criminals with no lucrative criminal opportunities. Criminals will do crimes, you can control crime but never stop it.

Sleepy

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

There will always be organised crime, right now it pays to easy.


I reckon, - Double, or triple (quadruple?) the resources CAB have - costs less than €7m a year as it is. This means they could constantly and repeatedly hammer the fcuk out of anyone who can't prove the legitimacy of their money/things. Increased funding and resources to CAB will never be anything but money well spent.


No race card, no discrimination - just good old fashioned asset stripping. Give incentives for informants - rip them apart from the inside.

QFT.

This is the answer and if successful enough, could generate the construction cost of a new prison in a few years

Thatnastyboy

Cordell wrote: »

What you don't want to have is criminals with no lucrative criminal opportunities. Criminals will do crimes, you can control crime but never stop it.

Correct.

They all turn to home invasion/robbery/ATM's/Bootlegging, that's the human way - we are enterprising animals, you will never stop crime.

That's why you need to hit them from every angle - before (surveillance/intelligence), during (patrols & acting on intelligence - there's no better proof than catching someone in the act) and after the fact (CAB - sieze everything not nailed down with proof)

CrankyHaus

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

There will always be organised crime, right now it pays to easy.


I reckon, - Double, or triple (quadruple?) the resources CAB have - costs less than €7m a year as it is. This means they could constantly and repeatedly hammer the fcuk out of anyone who can't prove the legitimacy of their money/things. Increased funding and resources to CAB will never be anything but money well spent.


No race card, no discrimination - just good old fashioned asset stripping. Give incentives for informants - rip them apart from the inside.

If it's activities were ramped up sooner or later CAB would step on the wrong toes, which is why it is a small, focused operation. The list of those who profit from crime goes far beyond the usual thugs given nicknames in the Sunday Wurrdled.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/millionaire-unaware-as-gang-line-up-private-jet-for-heroin-haul-26367192.html


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/case-dropped-against-man-caught-with-1-7m-in-drugs-26466898.html

Alf Veedersane

theguzman wrote: »

If our Navy was patrolling the waters instead of ferrying economic migrants from Africa into Europe it would be a start. Ireland is a major trans-shipment destination for Cocaine and other Drugs from Colombia and South America, sail your yacht loaded with bales of coke across the Atlantic, rendezvous with Irish criminals offshore who'll bring it ashore for distribution across the EU. West Cork and Kerry are major smuggling areas due to many inlets, and sparsely populated, Govt decisions to close local Garda stations further facilitated this smugglers den.

To be fair, the navy has only 8 boats. They'd be little more than a relatively minor inconvenience for smugglers.

gctest50

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

To be fair, the navy has only 8 boats. They'd be little more than a relatively minor inconvenience for smugglers.

Twice as hard when the lifeboat crew are supplying drugs :


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/rnli-volunteer-jailed-for-seven-years-on-drugs-charges-1.3708632?mode=amp

RNLI volunteer jailed for seven years on drugs charges

Liam O’Connell was found with drugs worth €270,000

It was significant that O’Connell was not a drug user or drug addict himself and was solely in the drugs business to make a profit

Thatnastyboy

CrankyHaus wrote: »

If it's activities were ramped up sooner or later CAB would step on the wrong toes, which is why it is a small, focused operation. The list of those who profit from crime goes far beyond the usual thugs given nicknames in the Sunday Wurrdled.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/millionaire-unaware-as-gang-line-up-private-jet-for-heroin-haul-26367192.html


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/case-dropped-against-man-caught-with-1-7m-in-drugs-26466898.html

Jim didn't know :pac: :pac:




I don't disagree with you though, corruption is rife through all ranks and walks of life -it's a good point. On the other side of it, CAB dont hand out convictions, they just take stuff - I guess their connections can just get it back for them if they're well up enough?

Otherwise, up there with the SCC - it's one of our finest institutional creations.

whisky_galore

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

To be fair, the navy has only 8 boats. They'd be little more than a relatively minor inconvenience for smugglers.

You could have twice or three times that number and it still wouldn't be enough. You would need to blockade the entire island and still drugs would get in.

CrankyHaus

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

Jim didn't know :pac: :pac:




I don't disagree with you though, corruption is rife through all ranks and walks of life -it's a good point. On the other side of it, CAB dont hand out convictions, they just take stuff - I guess their connections can just get it back for them if they're well up enough?

Otherwise, up there with the SCC - it's one of our finest institutional creations.

It is. However taking someone's property without proving they commited a crime (to the standard required in criminal law) is a very tricky thing which throws up a ton of legal issues, including constitutional ones.

That's why CAB goes after obvious criminals, who have less chance of recourse and generally see it as a tax and aren't completely cleaned out.

If CAB is expanded and goes after all the dirty money you might have all sorts of "respectable people" challenging it in court, and winning. Not to mention how much influence such people may have over the state to prevent CAB from acting like this. Even "Good Republicans" got a free pass for years out of a fear of unsettling the peace process.

Grayson

theguzman wrote: »

Knowing Ireland they would tax things so highly that the Cartel would still be profitable by undercutting it as is the case with cigarettes.

Still cuts out a huge amount of their revenue.

Thatnastyboy

CrankyHaus wrote: »

It is. However taking someone's property without proving they commited a crime (to the standard required in criminal law) is a very tricky thing which throws up a ton of legal issues, including constitutional ones.

That's why CAB goes after obvious criminals, who have less chance of recourse and generally see it as a tax and aren't completely cleaned out.

If CAB is expanded and goes after all the dirty money you might have all sorts of "respectable people" challenging it in court, and winning. Not to mention how much influence such people may have over the state to prevent CAB from acting like this. Even "Good Republicans" got a free pass for years out of a fear of unsettling the peace process.

Interesting take & insight. The law is a such a sharp double edged sword, wonderful in a way, awful in another.


I guess the slab et-al just eventually ran out of goodwill then?

CrankyHaus

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

Interesting take & insight. The law is a such a sharp double edged sword, wonderful in a way, awful in another.


I guess the slab et-al just eventually ran out of goodwill then?

Without confidential information it's all conjecture. To be fair CAB first arrested him in 2007 and a case may have taken time to build.
However you don't have to be Kissinger to know that going after the (alleged) Army Council Chief of Staff is bad politics when you're trying to reach and then keep together a shaky peace agreement.