Gamer reborn build advice

boomsNbeers

Hi Guys, looking for a entry level build, I'm going to be away from home part of the week and want a PC to distract me. Quite running and on the smaller side are priorities as it'll be my media hub and I may be moving every few months. I do want to work on technical qualifications so I need to run a few VM's but none of them power hogs.

1. What is your budget? [€500ish]

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? [Gaming/media player/Running VMs for study] Very little PC/Console gaming the last 5 years so I've a big back catalog of titles to catch up and I'm inclined toward more strategy (Just bought the new BattleTech) than FPS

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [no]

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? [I've SSD's and HDD's I can use]

5. Do you need a monitor? [No]

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? [I've a Dell 27" monitor, P2715Q, that makes claims to support Ultra HD 4k but I think it's more a business monitor so full HD/1920x1080 is as much as I'll push it] [No]

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? [no but do want suggestions]

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? [No]

8. How can you pay? [Bank Transfer/Credit Card/Laser]

9. When are you purchasing? [can buy from now but assume it's best to wait for the sales in a few weeks?]

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? [Cork City/west Dublin/Meath]

I've built PC's before and I am technical so it's really to get an idea of what the best bang for buck is in the lower cost Intel/AMD CPU's, a solid MB, memory and PSU combo and the other bits I'd need to build. I'd hope to do at least one CPU/GPU upgrade in a few years but I don't need it to grow into a high level system. I think I'd like a smaller case if possible, not the smallest going but not a full tower either but I am noise/vibration allergic so will put that over size every time.

I'm planning to get at least a 1060 or RX580 for the GPU since the prices now look to be very similar. Interested in hearing the why's and why nots of either choice and if there's thinking that a higher tier will drop to current prices in the black friday frenzy give me your guesses.

My budget is ball park as I'd hope to get some bargains at the end of November but money saved I'll probably put towards mouse and keyboard and/or speakers. So suggestions on what's the current good entry point on those would also be welcome.

Mucho tanks!

BoomsNbeers

Xenoronin

You'd be looking at the Ryzen 2400G probably as the best stopgap solution CPU. The socket is good for a while (so upgrading to Zen2 is possible), and you won't be able to squeeze a 580 or 1060 into your 500€ budget, so the integrated GPU is really solid.

The 1060 6gb is better than the 580, but more expensive. Just get the best you can afford.

The rest is standard,
DDR4 ram, ideally 3000MHz, 8gb.
An mATX motherboard, B450 has all the features you need.
An mATX case.
Don't skimp on the PSU, get a 500W for a future GPU.
Get an SSD for the OS drive.

K.O.Kiki

If you're willing to start off with a used machine, go on Adverts and look for an i5 / i7 machine for around €300-350.
As long as it has a decent PSU you can sell whatever GPU is in there and replace it with GTX 1060 6Gb / RX 570/580.

Alternative new build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 3 1200 3.1 GHz Quad-Core Processor (£78.97 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - GA-AX370M-DS3H Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (£51.94 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Kingston - FURY 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory (£65.97 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: MSI - Radeon RX 570 8 GB ARMOR OC Video Card (£158.99 @ Amazon UK)
Case: RIOTORO - CR488 ATX Mid Tower Case (£32.28 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: XFX - XT 500 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£35.93 @ CCL Computers)
Total: £424.08
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-11-08 15:40 GMT+0000

TerrorFirmer

Stretch a little extra and get KO's build. Well worth it. I would probably stretch a few quid extra again and get the Ryzen 1400 to avail of the extra threads to give the CPU much better longevity.

If you buy the RX570 on some other sites (such as OCUK) it comes with free Assassins Creed Odyssey, Strange Brigade and Star Citizen for the same price, with a little extra for postage.

boomsNbeers

Thanks guys, I'll have a look into those builds and see how it shapes my thinking and I'll sanity check. Also happy to hear other suggestions while I'm doing it.

I can push the budget a bit but I am also setting up a second place in the dreaded Dublin to live AND buying a car this month so I should probably be sensible about this...

...probably!

One question, will those AMD CPU's come with coolers or will I have to get a kit?

K.O.Kiki

All Ryzen CPUs except 1600X & 1700X come with decent stock coolers.

boomsNbeers

Righto, had my first look at the options and I am now leaning towards the 2400G and running the integrated graphics for a little while. It gives me a newer and more powerful CPU for the non gaming stuff and it's more than good enough for a lot of my Steam game pile. Certainly I'll be kept entertained until I can add a high RAM version of a 580/1060 in March.

So for B450 motherboards, is a B450 a B450 from anybody or are there ones/brands I should short list? I will also get the 3000Mhz RAM so suggestions on good options there are welcome too.

cheers!

K.O.Kiki

boomsNbeers wrote: »

Righto, had my first look at the options and I am now leaning towards the 2400G and running the integrated graphics for a little while. It gives me a newer and more powerful CPU for the non gaming stuff and it's more than good enough for a lot of my Steam game pile. Certainly I'll be kept entertained until I can add a high RAM version of a 580/1060 in March.

So for B450 motherboards, is a B450 a B450 from anybody or are there ones/brands I should short list? I will also get the 3000Mhz RAM so suggestions on good options there are welcome too.

cheers!

Ryzen 2400G is actually still a first-gen Ryzen under the hood (hate how AMD did that); it's barely more powerful than a GT1030.

If you want to go ultra-low budget but have a 4-core/8-thread CPU and decent gaming performance, get a Ryzen 1400 + GTX 1050.

The GTX 1050 Ti is once again relegated to a GPU only for systems without the space/power for a RX570, since the latter outperforms it by 60-90%.
==========
In regards to motherboard, there's a nice tier list available here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9uc6bi/am4_b450x470_vrm_tier_list/

TerrorFirmer

Yes, important to remember it's very powerful for an iGPU but still weak in modern games; some are actually unplayable on it at low settings and resolution, though the OP did say he was mostly playing older strategy games so I would say it'll be quite good in that context (depending how old).

Depends on the strategy games. Something like DOW3 or Total War: Warhammer 2 obviously won't run great on it, though relatively well again considering it's an APU.

It's more geared towards reasonable e-sports performance, like Overwatch or Fortnite at 1080p medium settings 60fps, CSGO, DOTA or Rocket League at ultra, etc.

Like the new Mechwarrior for example, would likely run like hot garbage on the 2400G (thought that wasn't out yet though?)

edit: the other thing is that you really need dual channel 3000Mhz ram for the 2400G also, which drives up the cost - agree with KO that you're better placed to get a 1400 Ryzen + GTX1050, (ram speed not as big a deal at all in this context) the performance will be a lot better for similar money overall.

boomsNbeers

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Ryzen 2400G is actually still a first-gen Ryzen under the hood (hate how AMD did that); it's barely more powerful than a GT1030.

If you want to go ultra-low budget but have a 4-core/8-thread CPU and decent gaming performance, get a Ryzen 1400 + GTX 1050.

The GTX 1050 Ti is once again relegated to a GPU only for systems without the space/power for a RX570, since the latter outperforms it by 60-90%.
==========
In regards to motherboard, there's a nice tier list available here:

That's interesting, which would be more powerful, the 2400G when paired a 1060 or the 1400 with the 1060?

Because that would be the card going into the box within 4/5 months at the latest.

I'm still working through reviews of the chipsets involved, there's info in the productivity tests that I care about but still not sure on the weighting I'll give them just yet verses a straight gaming choice.

boomsNbeers

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Yes, important to remember it's very powerful for an iGPU but still weak in modern games; some are actually unplayable on it at low settings and resolution, though the OP did say he was mostly playing older strategy games so I would say it'll be quite good in that context (depending how old).

Depends on the strategy games. Something like DOW3 or Total War: Warhammer 2 obviously won't run great on it, though relatively well again considering it's an APU.

It's more geared towards reasonable e-sports performance, like Overwatch or Fortnite at 1080p medium settings 60fps, CSGO, DOTA or Rocket League at ultra, etc.

Like the new Mechwarrior for example, would likely run like hot garbage on the 2400G (thought that wasn't out yet though?)

edit: the other thing is that you really need dual channel 3000Mhz ram for the 2400G also, which drives up the cost - agree with KO that you're better placed to get a 1400 Ryzen + GTX1050, (ram speed not as big a deal at all in this context) the performance will be a lot better for similar money overall.

Yeah I'm going to be going back quite a way (for example, I meant the new BattleTech game when I said Mechwarrior in the OP as I was thinking of it being like old Mech Commander series). I've never star crafted so I'll play those, I've the remastered Homeworld set, Supreme Commander, I'll get the new version of Warcraft III etc.

I'll be playing some World of Tanks/Warships too so I know I'm getting a big step up from my old XPS lappy with either of these options.

When I'm done with that I'll make a step up to higher end cards and try stuff like the Witcher III.

K.O.Kiki

boomsNbeers wrote: »

That's interesting, which would be more powerful, the 2400G when paired a 1060 or the 1400 with the 1060?

Because that would be the card going into the box within 4/5 months at the latest.

I'm still working through reviews of the chipsets involved, there's info in the productivity tests that I care about but still not sure on the weighting I'll give them just yet verses a straight gaming choice.

1400: more PCIe lanes for GPUs, soldered CPU (better thermals), more L3 cache (8mb vs 4mb)
2400G: higher official memory support (up to 2997MHz), higher base clock speed (both OC to 3.9GHz easily enough)

TBH you'd see little difference between them.

TerrorFirmer

I think either is fine, the important thing is that they're both quad core, eight thread CPU's, which will make a significant difference to the Ryzen 1200.

I think given the type of games you enjoy playing, it's not going to make any difference at all....and the games you've listed, the integrated GPU of the 2400G will definitely be plenty for now. It's generally a little below the level of the GT1030 GDDR5, though keeping in mind that that usually means running with dual channel 3000Mhz memory, and sometimes with an OC, to reach that level.

I think if you can afford it the 1400 + 8GB of whatever DDR4 ram is cheapest + GTX1050 is a much better balanced system and with those games you've listed, 1080p ultra isn't going to be a sweat and you're well set for the future for a while.

boomsNbeers

Right, I've been working away on a few builds that need passing over by an experienced eye.

First up is my AMD 2400G build, I'm leaning towards this as my actual buy as it's done better in productivity benchmarks in multiple reviews and I can start with a higher amount of fast memory that'll help in that area. It'll easily meet my initial gaming needs too but I will add a 1060/580 within 6 months.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2400G 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor (£129.59 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: ASRock - B450M PRO4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (£59.99 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Patriot - Viper 4 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (£118.19 @ More Computers)
Case: Cooler Master - MasterBox Lite 3.1 MicroATX Mid Tower Case (£38.44 @ Box Limited)
Power Supply: EVGA - 500 W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply (£42.73 @ CCL Computers)
Total: £388.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-11-15 15:57 GMT+0000

I'm seriously impressed by what I'm getting for this money and in fact I can save another 20/30 euros by splitting orders between UK and DE sites. Two things I particularly want advice on, is this right memory and the best deal I can get on it? I'm finding this the most opaque part (sic) of the build in determining what's what. The underlying technology I know from working on high end servers but there's so much fluff tied to PC builds that I'm not sure I'm translating the product descriptions correctly?

Second, is the PSU ok? I know I'm not getting 'bronze' but it does seem to be from a good manufacturer and gets a lot of good reviews.

I have put together a AMD 1400 build as well, comes in a bit more expensive but I have reduced the amount of memory to keep it within budget. I figure I'll get away with it since there's no GPU footprint unlike the 2400G and I'll add 8Gb in a few months.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1400 3.2 GHz Quad-Core Processor (£104.39 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: ASRock - B450M PRO4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (£59.99 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 8 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (£54.99 @ Aria PC)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4 GB Video Card (£156.98 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Cooler Master - MasterBox Lite 3.1 MicroATX Mid Tower Case (£38.44 @ Box Limited)
Power Supply: EVGA - 500 W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply (£42.73 @ CCL Computers)
Total: £457.52
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-11-15 16:21 GMT+0000

Since it's more expensive to start with and I'd have to go through the bother of selling the 1050, I would expect it to stop me considering an upgrade to a 1060 for a year or so.

Anyhoo, I'd greatly appreciate the pointing out any obvious mistakes and please suggest any where I can improve within budget or indeed, save a few quid off it.

BloodBath

Get a 570 or 580.

They are simply better cards than the 1050ti or 1060 and you get 2 free games from Resident Evil 2 remake, Devil may cry 5 and Division 2.

boomsNbeers

BloodBath wrote: »

Get a 570 or 580.

They are simply better cards than the 1050ti or 1060 and you get 2 free games from Resident Evil 2 remake, Devil may cry 5 and Division 2.

Interesting, I would be agnostic technology wise so will consider them for sure but I had got an impression from this forum while researching other stuff that the lower end nvidias were favored over the lower end AMD's?

I'm likely to go with bang for buck so things like bundled games or who might discount deeper during the sales will drive the sale.

TerrorFirmer

They're not low-end cards though, the RX560 is the equivalent to the GTX1050.

The RX570 is closer to the GTX1060 3GB, the RX580 as fast/faster than the GTX1060 6GB, but they're also much more expensive than the 1050. Cheapest 1050 is about £110, RX570 about £160 and 580 about £190.

The 570 in particular does make the GTX1050Ti totally redundant though as it's way faster; the 1050ti is 'better' in the sense that it can be used in pre-built OEM machines with tiny PSU's. It doesn't really have a place in any self-build games machine as it doesn't make much sense.

boomsNbeers

OK, getting really close to getting all the kit, spent much longer stalking parts as pretty much everything increased in price for the sales and most discounts didn't match pre-existing values.

<shakes fist!>

I did waver some about going the separate card as there was value to be had but I stuck with the 2400G only.

Here's where I am now:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2400G 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor (Purchased For £129.64)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - B450M DS3H Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (Purchased For £61.49)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (Purchased For £120.93)
Case: Corsair - Carbide Series 88R MicroATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For £42.20)
Total: £354.26
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-11-29 16:51 GMT+0000

All in, I'm happy, got the CPU via CCL on ebay with their 15% discount (code is presents, finishes today) but messed up as it only works for one transaction so could have discounted my last component if I'd realised

Could have saved a few pounds if I'd got for uglier or colored memory but it would have annoyed me too much with the windowed case (which was cheaper). I did get 11 pounds from amazon via some topup and gift card offers so that offset it nicely for me.

Only bit I'm missing now is a PSU, the EVGA White I was going with is almost 10 pound more right now then I first looked at it and I haven't been able to make myself buy it with that difference in place... a few pence more and I could get the 600w version and I'm ballpark for a named bronze PSU as well.

More stalking I guess but I'd really love to get something decent around 35 than 45...

K.O.Kiki

boomsNbeers wrote: »

OK, getting really close to getting all the kit, spent much longer stalking parts as pretty much everything increased in price for the sales and most discounts didn't match pre-existing values.

<shakes fist!>

I did waver some about going the separate card as there was value to be had but I stuck with the 2400G only.

Here's where I am now:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2400G 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor (Purchased For £129.64)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - B450M DS3H Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (Purchased For £61.49)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (Purchased For £120.93)
Case: Corsair - Carbide Series 88R MicroATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For £42.20)
Total: £354.26
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-11-29 16:51 GMT+0000

All in, I'm happy, got the CPU via CCL on ebay with their 15% discount (code is presents, finishes today) but messed up as it only works for one transaction so could have discounted my last component if I'd realised

Could have saved a few pounds if I'd got for uglier or colored memory but it would have annoyed me too much with the windowed case (which was cheaper). I did get 11 pounds from amazon via some topup and gift card offers so that offset it nicely for me.

Only bit I'm missing now is a PSU, the EVGA White I was going with is almost 10 pound more right now then I first looked at it and I haven't been able to make myself buy it with that difference in place... a few pence more and I could get the 600w version and I'm ballpark for a named bronze PSU as well.

More stalking I guess but I'd really love to get something decent around 35 than 45...

Seasonic 430ST Bronze - £40.47
Thermaltake Munich 430W - £45.24 delivered
Gigabyte PB500 500 Watt Bronze (unknown quality) - £39.98

boomsNbeers

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Seasonic 430ST Bronze - £40.47
Thermaltake Munich 430W - £45.24 delivered
Gigabyte PB500 500 Watt Bronze (unknown quality) - £39.98

That Seasonic looks a bargain considering what I've seen of their rep and comparative pricing. Even after putting a RX580 and drives in part picker for power I'm at about 270w as a max so should be happily fitting in the 60% rule.

But I do wonder if I should go to 500W for a little bit more future proofing but then considering the price point we're talking, I'd have got my moneys worth by 2 years in from the Seasonic...

K.O.Kiki

boomsNbeers wrote: »

That Seasonic looks a bargain considering what I've seen of their rep and comparative pricing. Even after putting a RX580 and drives in part picker for power I'm at about 270w as a max so should be happily fitting in the 60% rule.

But I do wonder if I should go to 500W for a little bit more future proofing but then considering the price point we're talking, I'd have got my moneys worth by 2 years in from the Seasonic...

Should be grand.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3036-how-far-can-450w-get-you-for-a-gaming-pc-wattage

boomsNbeers

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Should be grand.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3036-how-far-can-450w-get-you-for-a-gaming-pc-wattage

Thanks fella, that's answered a lot of the questions on draw and the Seasonic is ordered.

Sweet!