Garage diagnostics during older times

StereoSound

Before ECU's and all the modern technology in cars came into play, how difficult we're older past generation cars to repair? Stuff from the 80s for example. They were pretty basic unless you had a a few Bob and bought a high end Merc or a Beamer during those times which would have had basic ECUs and ABS systems inside them. Sierra's and Bluebirds or any average Joe runabout for example were pretty basic mechanically, they were everywhere in the day.

From a garage perspective back in those days, how were non start diagnostics properly performed? You got no OBD port standard nonsense going on with a car telling you what's wrong with it. Just spanners and guess work? Back in the day I was lucky and had Japanese cars so I never saw the inside of a garage so never had a non start situation. People with Fiats, Peugeot/Citreon on the other hand with their 80's french italian style must have had their cars up and down ramps more times then a ducks head in a pond.

Zubeneschamali

StereoSound wrote: »

People with Fiats, Peugeot/Citreon on the other hand with their 80's french italian style must have had their cars up and down ramps more times then a ducks head in a pond.

Ha ha!

No.

Toyotafanboi

To an extent, a big mistake would be to assume that current diagnostic equipment makes things easy. I'm not saying you personally OP but a huge assumption by most people is that you simply "plug in" a laptop and the car tells you what's wrong. It gives you leads and allows you to perform checks but it very rarely tells you what's broken. Even very high level manufacturer gear with good test plans etc are only as good as the technician using them.

With older cars things would have been somewhat easier, you could apply the same basic principles to anything that rolled through the doors really. Check for spark, fuel supply and compression if it's turning over and not starting, it has to be one of the three. The theory still applies today but determining these things is arguably made more difficult.

Silent Running

Ah, the good times! Is there a spark? Is there fuel? Is the timing right? Run a bit of wet and dry between the points. Easy-start and lose your eyebrows, etc.

Tazio

Silent Running wrote: »

Ah, the good times! Is there a spark? Is there fuel? Is the timing right? Run a bit of wet and dry between the points. Easy-start and lose your eyebrows, etc.

ha ha Check & replace points... or worn needles / reset floats.... (actually only did that this very weekend)

tabby aspreme

A timing light was usually as good as it got, or in a few places there were monstrous, Sun Diagnostic Machines

For Forks Sake

LIGHTNING wrote: »

They did actual diagnosis and used their training and skillset to fix the issue. Its something that in many ways has gone by the wayside nowadays. How many times have we seen people in here complain that a garage is just throwing parts at a car because of error codes and not fixing the actual issue.

This is the correct answer, actual mechanics who could find and repair, rather than todays "technician" who can read a code off an OBD but hasn't a damn clue how to fix the issue.

Silent Running

Tazio wrote: »

ha ha Check & replace points... or worn needles / reset floats.... (actually only did that this very weekend)

Oh, I see. A rich lad. When they became impossible to gap because of pitting, maybe. But the wet and dry got another few hundred miles out of a set that were well past their best before date. :P

antodeco

I have a few older cars (70s and 80s), and whenever something is wrong, you can pretty much figure it out, or go online and ask and 90% of the time you'll get an answer. It's amazing what taking off a hose and putting it back on can fix!

Irish Steve

ahhh youngsters. Ye didn't mention things like Stromberg carburettor diaphragms, and their oil damper, which were a classic cause of aggravation on older vehicles, and could cause some very confusing symptoms.

There were far fewer interdependent systems on the older cars, so working out what was upsetting it was a lot simpler, well most of the time, but there could still be strange faults to cause problems.

The OBD system on some vehicles is a curse, in that it's only as good as the information it stores, and there are (frequent) times when what it stores is nowhere near the actual problem, or (more often) it doesn't store anything, so it's down to experience of the specific make and model, or a chat with a mate at a main dealer to see what they are getting.

In more and more cases, the first action is to read (and store) all the codes, then clear them, and get the owner to drive it for a day or so, and then see if there are any new codes stored, it's surprising how often they come back after a couple of days and there's nothing, and if the vehicle is still not performing correctly, that's when the fun starts.

two wheels good

VWs from the 70s had a rudimentary diagnostic system

Some details from a random web search

The items monitored were:
Rear lights: (Tail, Brake, Turn)
Rear window defogger.
Battery condition and charging circuit.
Engine compression.
Ignition Timing.

The diagnostic program was quietly dropped in the late 70's;

hi5

I work on old engines all the time (as a hobby)
A timing light, a volt meter and a vacuum gauge covers nearly all diagnostics.
I also have a dwell meter and a small Gunson CO exhaust tester which comes in handy sometimes.

Kenny Logins

hi5 wrote: »

I work on old engines all the time (as a hobby)
A timing light, a volt meter and a vacuum gauge covers nearly all diagnostics.
I also have a dwell meter and a small Gunson CO exhaust tester which comes in handy sometimes.

This. Diagnostics are only really required when the electronics become so advanced that you need that help.

fancy pigeon

Gone are the days where you could start engines on pallets handy, start cars with screwdrivers or bypassing immobilizers without computers/OBD cables...

I was going to say no need for computers to open doors either, but I think BMW and OBD ports, plus I'm not sharing a video of me jimmying a lock open on an early 90s car with a welding rod

I think I still live in that world, where I'll listen for rattles/clonks/squeaks and diagnose based on visual checks and how the car performs vs how it should perform based on a particular scenario.

I will need diag for the likes of ABS (which can be a right nuisance to sort beyond sensors)

StereoSound

StereoSound wrote: »

.........

From a garage perspective back in those days, how were non start diagnostics properly performed? You got no OBD port standard nonsense going on with a car telling you what's wrong with it. Just spanners and guess work? .............

Loads of garages had the likes of an electronic engine tuning system, Crypton were popular......... https://www.cryptontechnology.com/why-crypton/history

two wheels good

hi5 wrote: »

I work on old engines all the time (as a hobby)
A timing light, a volt meter and a vacuum gauge covers nearly all diagnostics.
I also have a dwell meter and a small Gunson CO exhaust tester which comes in handy sometimes.

Or static timing when without the luxury of a meter or timing light.
Recently I had reason to use my Gunson's Colourtune kit that's been sitting unused on the shelf for years. Very satisfying. Not as accurate as the CO meter I 'm sure.
Vacuum gauges would still be essential for servicing modern motorbikes of course.