Clearing forest overgrowth for a beginner

adocholiday

Hi everyone,

We've just moved into a house that comes with 2 acres of forestry. It's principally pine trees but there are also horse chestnut, sycamore and ash trees on the property.

I have no desire to cut down a single tree but the ground beneath the trees is heavily overgrown and covered with fallen branches, briars, weeds etc. and is basically impassable right now. This spring and summer I want to spend time clearing it and making it nice but want to keep it as natural as possible.

Thing is I have zero experience and I mean zero when it comes to gardening and landscaping. I was wondering if the kind people here could give me some pointers on things like tools, guides, websites, books and whatever other experience or advice you might have. Would really appreciate it, I'm really looking forward to doing the project but want to make sure I'm suitably equipped and educated to do it properly.

Thanks in advance!

blackbox

Have a look in the forestry forum. I've seen some discussions on a similar topic that might be helpful.

JJayoo

adocholiday wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We've just moved into a house that comes with 2 acres of forestry. It's principally pine trees but there are also horse chestnut, sycamore and ash trees on the property.

I have no desire to cut down a single tree but the ground beneath the trees is heavily overgrown and covered with fallen branches, briars, weeds etc. and is basically impassable right now. This spring and summer I want to spend time clearing it and making it nice but want to keep it as natural as possible.

Thing is I have zero experience and I mean zero when it comes to gardening and landscaping. I was wondering if the kind people here could give me some pointers on things like tools, guides, websites, books and whatever other experience or advice you might have. Would really appreciate it, I'm really looking forward to doing the project but want to make sure I'm suitably equipped and educated to do it properly.

Thanks in advance!

Is the area wired off?

If it was a secure area you could see if a neighbor has a few sheep/goats that you could let in, they would eat a lot of the greenery.

You would want sheep that are clipped as big coats of wool can easily get tangled in briars.

Even 2 or 3 over winter with access to water and a small bit of concentrate each day would do a very good job of clearing it.

No rams as they might make shiitte of your trees

looksee

While you may not want to cut down a single tree, it might improve the area considerably to take a few of the trees out. This is thinning and is both recommended and desirable. It does depend on the condition of the woodland in question and you should have a look for an approved forester - not so much to do the actual thinning as to advise you on the best approach. https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/crops/forestry/grants/List-of-Registered-Foresters.pdf And if you do want to remove any trees they will be able to help you with a felling license which you must have.

It is recommended to open the canopy a bit (fell a few trees) in order to let light into the forest floor and encourage diversification of plants. If you work out a magic way of removing briars please let me know. Don't listen to people who suggest you spray weedkiller all around you, you will destroy everything else as well. Some spot use may be appropriate but be sparing and careful with it.

Some of the wood on the ground will have to be gathered up just to enable you to get around, try and leave large rotting logs where they are though, they are a valuable cover for insect and small mammal life. The other stuff that you collect up you could stack closely and it will also provide cover while allowing you to get around.

There is loads of information on the Teagasc and Forestry Service websites, and you could go and have a read of the Forestry forum also.

magicbastarder

what is your end goal?
i suspect that 2 acres of forestry is not going to make you rich, so the question would be whether you want to keep it as a little bit of income (2 acres of pine will not be worth a lot, maybe €500 per annum, from what i can see), or turn it into two acres of woodland.
whether you want to retain it for forestry or do something else with it could change your approach quite a bit.

adocholiday

Thanks for the great info much appreciated. I'll look at the forestry forum I didn't realise one existed. Unfortunately the area isn't secure for sheep or goats but fencing off the site is something we have to do anyway so we I'll look into it.

We don't want to do anything with it as such, it's just our garden and we'd just like it to look nice and be a space we can enjoy so there's no plans in that regard. Just clean and tidy and make it friendly for local wildlife that'd be ideal.

magicbastarder

if you want to make it friendly for wildlife and don't have any plans to fell it for money (which could be decades away anyway), i'd concentrate on taking the pine out gradually. it won't be nearly as good for wildlife as the others - and you could consider introducing some other species like oak, hazel, etc.

fiacha

I watched a UK documentary a few years ago about a guy restoring some native woodland. He brought in some pigs to clear the brambles and undergrowth. Apparently they are very successful at maintaining the woodland longterm.

They'll also eat all your kitchen scraps and if you are so inclined provide some excellent meat .

Might be worth looking into as an option.

AdrianLM

I have no desire to cut down a single tree but the ground beneath the trees is heavily overgrown and covered with fallen branches, briars, weeds etc. and is basically impassable right now. This spring and summer I want to spend time clearing it and making it nice but want to keep it as natural as possible.

Clearing this over the winter may be much easier, firstly any tall grass and scutch grass will die down over the winter and will be much easier to clear. Also, you don't want to be doing this in the summer as you will be eaten alive with miges. Over the winter there would usually be some cold dry days which would be suitable for doing this work.

The pigs could be a good option though.

blackbox

adocholiday wrote: »

We don't want to do anything with it as such, it's just our garden and we'd just like it to look nice and be a space we can enjoy so there's no plans in that regard. Just clean and tidy and make it friendly for local wildlife that'd be ideal.

If you are serious about making it friendly for wildlife you might consider not clearing all of it, as those brambles and fallen logs provide a lot of protection.

Would you consider just clearing some nice pathways with maybe just a couple of cleared areas.

NB I see some people recommending clearing out pines; Scots Pine is a native tree in Ireland and shouldn't be treated the same as spruce.

Lumen

Yeah, but are they really pines?

my3cents

I wouldn't even think about clearing all of it to start with. All I'd do is strim/brushcut/mow a few paths through the wood.

Its hard enough looking after 2 acres of woodland so why make more work for yourself when doing so may be robbing the woodland of the features that are supporting most of the wildlife.

If you must clear the forest floor then perhaps after putting in some paths/tracks through it you could notionally divide it the land in to quarters or eighths and clear one quarter or eighth each year while leaving the other areas alone.

Brashing the trees is also to be avoided apart from along the paths (removing all the lower branches up to head height) because again it removes valuable protection for some woodland residents and in extremes can create a path for the wind along the ground.

JJayoo

You could plant a few small orchards. I'm doing this at the moment with native crab apple/plum/cherry/wild pear and commercial apple and pear trees. The flowers are great for bees.

magicbastarder

blackbox wrote: »

NB I see some people recommending clearing out pines; Scots Pine is a native tree in Ireland and shouldn't be treated the same as spruce.

true, but how common is scots pine these days as a cash crop (assuming a cash crop was the original intention of whoever planted them)?

another thing you could do - and this is certainly not something everyone would consider - is ringbarking some of the pines (assuming they're not scots pines); this would kill the tree, but standing dead wood is a rare ecosystem in itself.

best not do this to any trees you put a path beside, of course!

ford2600

2 acres is a nice area of forestry to have as your own recreation area but also a resource.

If you use it properly as a resource, you could add to its biodiversity value while enjoying it more. Cutting and maintaining paths just for the sake of having paths will get tiresome pretty quick.


Have a look at the principles of continuous cover forestry, link below but you'll find better on UK forestry forums(I just a little lazy this morning).
https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/forestry/six-steps-towards-switching-to-continuous-cover-forest-36896934.html

I's be inclined to do the following
*identify exactly what the "pine" trees are. Once that is established, and depending on their value (commercially and biodiversity) I would proceed from there.
*You could look at beekeeping; a forest near your house is a good place to keep them. There is a subforum on beekeeping in the main farming forum and also a smallholding one if you want to keep pigs. I have had the idea of pigs for quite a few years for my own wood, and as much I like black pudding/pork/bacon they can be as social and endearing as dogs so I decided against it. (I say that as someone cold blooded enough to shoot deer so be very sure before you go down that road unless you want them for pets)
*as you assess the trees you could decide to clear a small section(chainsaws and tree felling is dangerous so may not be for you)and replant with what grows naturally locally( have a wander around and see what else is in ditches) If wet land sessile oak, alder, willow can be good options, whitethorn, holly and blackthorn are also nice.
*If you want to knock a tree older than 10 years you require a felling licence. If you are a spirit of the law kinda dude and your goal is to improve forest I wouldn't bother but you may be a letter of the law man; so make up your own mind on that.
*make and put up a few bat boxes. Bats are awesome.
*Post on forestry forum you might get someone knowledgeable and local who might have a look at your site

Look on it as your outdoor gym/personal park and it could be invaluable to you and your family.

Final left field suggestion, open a glamping site while its still trendy!

adocholiday

Again much thanks to everyone for the great info, suggestions and resources. Really appreciated and I'll get lots of value from your posts. This weekend I'll do a job of mapping the site and classifying the trees that are there which might prove useful. I'll take a few pictures too. In terms of age the trees all appear to be old and looking at aerial photos from the year 1995 the site was forested before the house was built. They are really tall and in some places quite close together. I don't think it was ever a commercial forest though, and it certainly hasn't been for at least 20 years.

In terms of keeping animals it's a lovely idea but unfortunately our work commitments would mean we can't really devote the time needed to any animals that aren't basically self sufficient. We've even abstained from getting a dog on that basis. Makes us appreciate the wildlife that bit more too! I like the idea of the bat boxes though, and bird friendly infrastructure and plants that favour bees etc. anything that supports the native wildlife is a runner in my book.

Really the idea is just for a clear perimeter path, with maybe a couple of small clearways through the trees and some nice benches and maybe an arbour/wooden gazebo in the middle of it all. A place that we can enjoy as an amenity. The glamping idea is also a nice idea, but I guess I'd need planning permission for that! Good option though!

Please everyone keep your suggestions and input coming, I really appreciate your time and thoughts on it. Once I have the mapping and classifications I'll start looking at getting some tools to start the job!

JJayoo

You could stick in a pond at some stage

Lumen

JJayoo wrote: »

You could stick in a pond at some stage

Great for midges!

Lumen

Regarding the animals thing, I keep chickens in a wooded area and they're very low maintenance. Chickens were originally forest creatures. Nothing like dogs!

New Home

Provided there aren't any foxes around...

recedite

So here's the thing, if the wood is reasonably mature, then it should have a canopy and there should not be much undergrowth, and no grass.

One easy and nice thing is to plant bluebells in patches where the light splashes in. You can do that now, but get bulbs of the native variety, not the Spanish hybrid.

Next get a cordless battery operated electric chainsaw such as the bosch. these are lighter, simpler, and less dangerous to operate than a petrol one.
Over the winter go around pruning any side branches below 6 foot. Most of these would be dead or dying anyway. After that you'll be able to walk around the woodland area much better, which increases its benefit to you as a leisure resource. If there are brambles and briars you'll need to cut them at the base, then preferably spray the new growth in spring with glyphosate.
Over time some paths will start to emerge organically if people are going into the wood, and these can be widened and maintained in a more clean way than the main areas, where you can allow the likes of ferns and holly to grow.

my3cents

OP have a google and read up on "Coppice with Standards" one link to get you started here

Its a great way to look after suitable woodland from both an ecological an even economic point of view.

Basically you keep your best Standard trees while coppicing the trees below, often hazel, willow, ash and sweet chestnut.

From a labour point of view you do nothing in a hurry and can divide the ground up into 1/4 acre or other suitable sized plots and coppice one plot every year so over say 8 years you cover the hole area then start again. Its one way of getting a sustainable supply of wood for burning while leaving areas of varying maturity to the benefit of the ecosystem.

The standards are taken as a cash crop in a similar manner from one plot at a time but over a much longer time span. In the mean time you thin out the standards you don't want to grow to maturity to leave more light to the undercrop.

blackbox

JJayoo wrote: »

You could stick in a pond at some stage

I really wouldn't recommend a pond in a woodland. The debris from the trees will pollute the water and acidify it. Ponds are best in the open.

guitarhappy

Good advice here so far. Can you post some pictures? Maybe you'll get more specific advice.

Otherwise, just remember - you can only cut a tree down one time. You can do "nothing" to a tree every day for the rest of your life.

magicbastarder

guitarhappy wrote: »

just remember - you can only cut a tree down one time.

heh, just to be pedantic, coppicing is kinda cutting a tree down repeatedly.
can't be done with the pines though.

guitarhappy

magicbastarder wrote: »

heh, just to be pedantic, coppicing is kinda cutting a tree down repeatedly.
can't be done with the pines though.

I assumed any reader of my post would be intelligent enough to get my point, which is to not cut down a tree without thoughtful consideration of the long term consequences. I apologise deeply for over estimating you.

RebelButtMunch

guitarhappy wrote: »

I assumed any reader of my post would be intelligent enough to get my point, which is to not cut down a tree without thoughtful consideration of the long term consequences. I apologise deeply for over estimating you.

Play the ball

ford2600

guitarhappy wrote: »

Otherwise, just remember - you can only cut a tree down one time. You can do "nothing" to a tree every day for the rest of your life.

While you are correct, if you want to improve/change a wood cutting down trees is a necessity.

I have a 7 acres parcel of ash, and while I have final harvest in mind unlike OP, to improve that wood and in particular to allow the best trees to get bigger means cutting a lot of smaller/crooked/diseased trees.

The ash wood is 23 yrs old, and as I've been very active with it since it was planted, it is in a really good condition. This has meant cutting down a lot of near perfect trees as they were competing with bigger perfect trees. Its not pleasant but it's necessary.

From reading OP I would think he/she is not very experienced in such matters and I would be very reluctant for them to cut trees for different reasons; in a wood especially where they can get tied up in each other it can be really dangerous work even with all the appropriate work equipment, training and experience.

westsidestory

recedite wrote: »

Next get a cordless battery operated electric chainsaw such as the bosch. these are lighter, simpler, and less dangerous to operate than a petrol one.
Over the winter go around pruning any side branches below 6 foot. Most of these would be dead or dying anyway.

Know nothing about battery operated chainsaws but nobody should be using a chainsaw above chest height. Chainsaws are absolutely lethal. Not a piece of kit for inexperienced operators. Loads of horror stories out there, had a near one myself recently and I've been using professionally for 20 years.

Inexperience & fatigue are lethal. Not knowing how to set up chain etc as bad.

AdrianLM

Do a Google search for "willow structures" and go into images. This might give you some ideas of how to enhance parts of the woodland. For example, arch ways at the start of you pathways etc.

JJayoo

If you want to remove trees spray a mark on the ones you want chopped and get a professional in.

guitarhappy

ford2600 wrote: »

From reading OP I would think he/she is not very experienced in such matters and I would be very reluctant for them to cut trees for different reasons; in a wood especially where they can get tied up in each other it can be really dangerous work even with all the appropriate work equipment, training and experience.

This.

Accidentally

I'd contact the NPWS and ask for details for your local ranger. Some are a bit hit and miss, but some are also excellent. If you get a good one they can give you excellent advice and contacts.

Felling, pollarding or coppicing can all come with an element of danger, but try and do what you can after a bit of advice. Chainsaws need training and respect, but you can also achieve a lot with a bow saw, a bit of respect, and a bit more time.

Beware the local genius with a chainsaw. They rarely have the local flora and fauna, or your interests at heart.

recedite

Chainsaws can be lethal alright, on the other hand its hard to maintain a piece of woodland without one. As somebody said, best advice is probably to mark any trees that need to be thinned out, and get a contractor in to cut them.


I think at the end of the day, OP wants this wood as an eco-facility and a leisure resource. So another suggestion is purchase one of the excellent Silky saws and a secateurs, and attach them both onto holsters on a belt. Then whenever taking a stroll out there, wear the belt. There will always be something to prune. If you do it in small doses like so, it will be a leisure activity as opposed to a chore. OP can watch wildlife and observe the seasonal changes of nature while out there. If there is any major work needed to be done, get a contractor in.

Lumen

What's the point in owning a small forest if you don't get to play with chainsaws?

Get some training, know your limits, don't leave ground level.

adocholiday

Hi everyone, apologies for the radio silence, I didn't really have anything to post until now, but I finally made the best of the good weather yesterday to get some pics.

I have uploaded two albums, 1 showing the garden https://imgur.com/a/xkL8CJg and 1 showing the forest https://imgur.com/a/kDzhOBD.

The garden is actually pretty clear of trees. It's a multi-level garden and the highest level is visible from the house. There is a hill, then a flat overgrown area, with another hill, and another overgrown flat area. There are some trees in the garden and looks to be a mix of different ones. The trees in the garden are all to the right of the first pic.

In the forest then you can see that it's basically all pine, with lots of overgrowth and fallen trees etc.

Any questions I'll do my best. Hopefully this helps you all visualize it better.

And to address the latest conversation, I think if any chopping of trees is required I'll be getting the pros in for sure!

New Home

Here are the links without the final parenthesis.

https://imgur.com/a/xkL8CJg
https://imgur.com/a/kDzhOBD

(Looks heavenly, Op. )

adocholiday

New Home wrote: »

Here are the links without the final parenthesis.

https://imgur.com/a/xkL8CJg
https://imgur.com/a/kDzhOBD

(Looks heavenly, Op. )

Thanks! I've updated the post too thanks for the heads up

looksee

I think I am probably ahead of you on brambles! My place looks much the same though - though I have almost no conifers. Yes, tree chopping is for experts (and a felling license).

recedite

Pretty much as I thought, the brambles are growing where there is light (outside the canopy) Inside the wood the main problem is small branches at eye level which I would take out to leave "clean trunks" on the trees. These are grand for wildlife and small birds, but they will really interfere with your ability to walk around the wood and enjoy it.

Some nice ferns in there too, and in spring you'll see what bulbs might come up.
There's a lot of ivy on the trees. I'd cut that at the base and leave it to die off, but no doubt somebody else will say "leave that, its a native species".
Either way the ivy will still be mooching around at ground level, looking for something else to climb on.