Electricity meter not turning - can I be charged retrospectively

kevpatts

Hey,

I have a split day/night meter. The day part of it hasn’t increased in a few months, so I’m not being charged for daytime usage. It’s been measured by the meter reader a few times.

If they do figure this out an they legally bill me if they have no way of telling how much I used?

Kevpatts

Xterminator

hi op

If you used the electricity, you are liable for the correct usage bill.

ring them today to mitigate any undercharging happening, and protect yourself from a worse surprise.

iHungry

Better to get it fixed then get a nasty bil. The right thing to do is to report it now as they may wave the charges(would they be that nice?) and If you didn't inform them i wonder could they look at your past usage and bill you that way. Don't the estimate bills that way already if the can't read the meter?

kevpatts

iHungry wrote: »

Better to get it fixed then get a nasty bil. The right thing to do is to report it now as they may wave the charges(would they be that nice?) and If you didn't inform them i wonder could they look at your past usage and bill you that way. Don't the estimate bills that way already if the can't read the meter?

Yes they do estimate bills but they only do that as an interim in case the meter isn’t read.

So my question boils down to 2 points:
1. Can they accurately measure the actual usage of the meter isn’t working (I assume not) and
2. Assuming they can’t, can they legally charge you for a “guess” at the usage?

kevpatts

Come to think of it, If they could legally charge you then how would future meter readings work? Unless they physically rolled the meter forward to match what they’d estimated then you’d constantly be sending in acccurate readings below what they had on the books, leading to credit.

The only way to get around this is they’d have to adjust the “current”/“last” reading on their system, which would lead to inaccurate bills and an anomaly in their systems.

I’m pretty sure they can’t charge me.

cml387

Don't live in a fantasy world, you need to fix this.
They know there is someone in the house, they will figure out that the usage is not normal and they will seek to get the electricity back,by looking at usage over the past few years.
Also unless you contact them, they may suspect the meter has been tampered with and you'll be in even more trouble.

L1011

This is a situation where pointing out the fault is likely to have a much better outcome than "not noticing" it - or even legitimately not noticing it. Estimated usage can be applied to faulty or interfered with meters

The billing systems absolutely do support rebasing readings - how do you think they handle replacement meters? Indeed a replacement meter is the likely result here

LollipopJimmy

I worked in the industry and when I did if a fault like this was reported then not a single ****e was given

rubadub

kevpatts wrote: »

1. Can they accurately measure the actual usage of the meter isn’t working (I assume not) and

I don't think so. There is meant to be a main meter which clocks the usage for an area and if this does not match the individual readings they know something is up. This is how cannabis grow houses have been detected. People will bypass the meter and use huge amounts of electricity but not pay, so the reported usage will not tally.

cute geoge

My guess is that meter is stuck on night rate ,next time you look at meter during the day check if the night rate is increasing

salmocab

kevpatts wrote: »

Come to think of it, If they could legally charge you then how would future meter readings work? Unless they physically rolled the meter forward to match what they’d estimated then you’d constantly be sending in acccurate readings below what they had on the books, leading to credit.

The only way to get around this is they’d have to adjust the “current”/“last” reading on their system, which would lead to inaccurate bills and an anomaly in their systems.

I’m pretty sure they can’t charge me.

They don’t need to roll anything forward, they only need to reset their own reading on their system. Likely they will throw in a new meter with new readings anyway. You absolutely do have to pay them as you used the electricity however as it’s their equipment that’s faulty they are unlikely to be looking for a pile of cash in one go, contact them it won’t go bad for you.

Thomyokk

They'll estimate your use if they become aware of the fault

Proving you owe that money is another matter

redcup342

Thomyokk wrote: »

They'll estimate your use if they become aware of the fault

Proving you owe that money is another matter

They will in their hole.

Say nothing, carry on as normal and let them inform you of the fault.

The meter is in the responsibility of the Power company, nothing to do with you, if its misreading let them become aware of the issue and fix it.

It would be different if they were billing you incorrectly but in this case they are not counting your KW/H correctly and that, they cannot 'estimate'

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

redcup342 wrote: »

They will in their hole.

Say nothing, carry on as normal and let them inform you of the fault.

The meter is in the responsibility of the Power company, nothing to do with you, if its misreading let them become aware of the issue and fix it.

It would be different if they were billing you incorrectly but in this case they are not counting your KW/H correctly and that, they cannot 'estimate'

They most certainly can and will estimate Day usage once the fault, inevitably, is highlighted. They have every right, and many tools available, to do so.

It will reduce the size of the forthcoming charge, for understated bills, by sorting the issue sooner.

redcup342

Finley Small Sluggishness wrote: »

They most certainly can and will estimate Day usage once the fault, inevitably, is highlighted. They have every right, and many tools available, to do so.

It will reduce the size of the forthcoming charge, for understated bills, by sorting the issue sooner.

You can only Estimate usage based on previous meter readings and then re-conciliate the actual usage with an actual number.

You cannot just make up an estimated reading out of thin air.

cml387

redcup342 wrote: »

You can only Estimate usage based on previous meter readings and then re-conciliate the actual usage with an actual number.

You cannot just make up an estimated reading out of thin air.

According to the OP the day meter has stopped in the last few months.
There will be a history of previous usage to go on.

Thomyokk

They will indeed fire out an estimated invoice if the meters stopped.

Many's the stopped meter I came across in the electrical game

Proving it if you don't pay though,id say there's plenty of room for negotiation or not paying at all

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

redcup342 wrote: »

You can only Estimate usage based on previous meter readings and then re-conciliate the actual usage with an actual number.

You cannot just make up an estimated reading out of thin air.

Firstly, it's highly likely all units are recorded on the Night Rate and they can most certainly assign a portion of them to the non recording Day Rate in line with previous usage or norms.

And, they can absolutely estimate any completely unrecorded units on the same basis.

It's not an unusual occurrence and well covered in their T&Cs and has even been sanctioned in court cases involving damaged metres.

redcup342

Finley Small Sluggishness wrote: »

Firstly, it's highly likely all units are recorded on the Night Rate and they can most certainly assign a portion of them to the non recording Day Rate in line with previous usage or norms.

And, they can absolutely estimate any completely unrecorded units on the same basis.

It's not an unusual occurrence and well covered in their T&Cs and has even been sanctioned in court cases involving damaged metres.

In cases where the customer has tampered with the meter, the OP has not tampered with the meter in this case.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

redcup342 wrote: »

In cases where the customer has tampered with the meter, the OP has not tampered with the meter in this case.

It doesn't change the entitlement of ESB Networks to estimate unrecorded or misrecorded usage. I don't get what part of that is so hard to grasp.

redcup342

redcup342 wrote: »

In cases where the customer has tampered with the meter, the OP has not tampered with the meter in this case.

How do you know this?

evolving_doors

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How do you know this?

Cos he would have said so wouldn't he :pac:

TheDriver

It happened to my gas meter. I got a bill with zero usage. Checked meter and it wasn't turning. Rang them, explained and they thanked me, changed meter and didn't change for any unmetered usage.

Gwen Cooper

I'm a bit late to the party but I used to work in customer service for one of the electricity providers.

Whenever a fault like this was discovered, we had to get the occupant an appointment with ESB Networks who would come out to check the meter. If they find the meter to be faulty, they will actually take it out and give you a new one, so you start from 0.

The old meter is then sent abroad (I think it was Germany or Switzerland but don't quote me on that) and some tests are performed on it.

It can take a few months for the results to come back (I've seen customers who have been waiting for the results for 6 months), but somehow they will figure out what was actually used.

The customer is then being sent an accurate bill.

I would recommend reporting it to them because if the day units are not registering, you're obviously underpaying and will end up with a massive bill sooner or later.

slave1

Our meter stopped working during the Summer, I phoned ESB to report it and it took a couple of reminder calls to get them to call out, I also phoned my supplier as nothing was being done. When it was being replaced I ask the ESB guy what the story was on the months usage, he said they have no way of telling so I simply would not be charged, and I wasn’t.