LeafSpy versus Carwings stats

waynegalway

Just wondering if anyone else has compared their trip and consumption stats between the two apps?


I'm getting a different figure from each. I tend to use Carwings on every trip, but LeafSpy just occasionally.


In October, LeafSpy recorded 556km, with a nett consumption of 73.196kWh. This equates to 13.165kWh/100km


For the same period, Carwings recorded 1039km, with a nett consumption of 148.6kWh. This equates to 14.302kWh/100km


Can someone else check to see if you're getting a difference between the two apps, please?


What might explain this? I *think* that maybe the Carwings figure includes all energy used, whereas LeafSpy might be showing the motor energy consumption only. Can anyone confirm this?


Or is it just a fluke of the maths, and if both apps had recorded exactly the same distance (i.e. both had been running all the time), then the consumption would be the same?

KCross

waynegalway wrote: »

Or is it just a fluke of the maths, and if both apps had recorded exactly the same distance (i.e. both had been running all the time), then the consumption would be the same?

I'd say this ^

Your two figures(14.3/13.2) are within the margin of error and will obviously be very dependent on the journeys recorded. I'd consider those two figures practically the same really.

McGiver

waynegalway wrote: »

In October, LeafSpy recorded 556km, with a nett consumption of 73.196kWh. This equates to 13.165kWh/100km


For the same period, Carwings recorded 1039km, with a nett consumption of 148.6kWh. This equates to 14.302kWh/100km

How do you get 140Wh/km? That's impossible for me. I drive almost all the time in Eco B. Do you have AC/heater turned off? Or are these figures minus heating?

My typical stats at the moment are:
Acceleration - 220
Regen - 80
Heating - 80
Total - 220 Wh/km

My long term driving efficiency is about 180 Wh/km (i believe that includes heating also).

If you have Android, would you try My Leaf app just to compare with my figures?

waynegalway

McGiver wrote: »

How do you get 140Wh/km? Do you have AC/heater turned off? Or are these figures minus heating?

If you have Android, would you try My Leaf app just to compare with my figures?

These are nett figures, taking into account the usage of power for the motor, a/c, heating and anything else that’s powered off the batteries. “Nett” in the sense that the car used more, but the regen amount is taken off the total used. So it’s about 14kWh/100km of energy input from the charger.

I don’t have heater or AC turned off. Climate control left on Auto the whole time.

I was getting down around 12kWh/100km during the summer, but around 18kWh/100km when I first bought the car last November. Your stats will get better as you get used to it.

I don’t have android, but I’m getting similar figures from both Carwings and LeafSpy, so I’m taking it that they’re correct.

McGiver

waynegalway wrote: »

These are nett figures, taking into account the usage of power for the motor, a/c, heating and anything else that’s powered off the batteries. “Nett” in the sense that the car used more, but the regen amount is taken off the total used. So it’s about 14kWh/100km of energy input from the charger.

I don’t have heater or AC turned off. Climate control left on Auto the whole time.

I was getting down around 12kWh/100km during the summer, but around 18kWh/100km when I first bought the last November. Your stats will get better as you get used to it.

I don’t have android, but I’m getting similar figures from both Carwings and LeafSpy, so I’m taking it that they’re correct.

Don't think so, I drive very defensively and doing a lot of regen, practically not using the brakes. Also using Eco mode most of the time as I find the normal one too jumpy, the accelerator is ultra sensitive for my liking.

What I read though is that short trips are really heavy on the heater consumption and that's exactly my case, I make multiple short trips in the city, rather than longer trips, say in rural area. I think that may be the reason for my lower efficiency figures.

waynegalway

McGiver wrote: »

Don't think so, I drive very defensively and doing a lot of regen, practically not using the brakes. Also using Eco mode most of the time as I find the normal one too jumpy, the accelerator is ultra sensitive for my liking.

What I read though is that short trips are really heavy on the heater consumption and that's exactly my case, I make multiple short trips in the city, rather than longer trips, say in rural area. I think that may be the reason for my lower efficiency figures.

My commute is about 25km a day, of which about 6km is urban on a good day, but with tailbacks out the Tuam road, I could effectively do up to 14km “urban” in a day. If anything, the economy gets better on those days as I’d be moving so slowly.

Driving in B all the time isn’t always the best approach. I actively switch between D and B as I go along, but I’m almost always in ECO mode either way.

I’d be very surprised if your stats don’t improve over time, no matter how well you think you’re driving right now! I felt exactly the same way when I got mine, so I know where you’re coming from.

creedp

waynegalway wrote: »

My commute is about 25km a day, of which about 6km is urban on a good day, but with tailbacks out the Tuam road, I could effectively do up to 14km “urban” in a day. If anything, the economy gets better on those days as I’d be moving so slowly.

Driving in B all the time isn’t always the best approach. I actively switch between D and B as I go along, but I’m almost always in ECO mode either way.

I’d be very surprised if your stats don’t improve over time, no matter how well you think you’re driving right now! I felt exactly the same way when I got mine, so I know where you’re coming from.

I'm closer to McGiver here as I have the L30 since April and Leafspy is reporting my Oct figures as 3,652km travelled with av economy of 0.16KWh/km. I rarely get a monthly average under 0.15KWh/km on Leafspy although individual journey's can vary significantly depending on my mood and elevation changes. Like you I normally drive in eco mode and switch between B and D mode as I go along.

KCross

McGiver wrote: »

I drive very defensively and doing a lot of regen, practically not using the brakes.

Maximising regen is not the most efficient way to drive. Regen is better than using brakes but it is wasting energy too.
If you are into hypermiling you should ease off on the regen and coast more, just making sure you're not holding up traffic.

I couldnt drive like that myself, I prefer to drive to the limit as much as possible, but each to their own.

McGiver

KCross wrote: »

Maximising regen is not the most efficient way to drive. Regen is better than using brakes but it is wasting energy too.
If you are into hypermiling you should ease off on the regen and coast more, just making sure you're not holding up traffic.

I couldnt drive like that myself, I prefer to drive to the limit as much as possible, but each to their own.

OK, I'll try Eco D mode and coasting.

McGiver

waynegalway wrote: »

Driving in B all the time isn’t always the best approach. I actively switch between D and B as I go along, but I’m almost always in ECO mode either way.

I also prefer the Eco mode, I turn it off only when I need a really quick acceleration e.g. at tight roundabouts etc.

But I absolutely don't switch between B and D, what's the benefit of it? Are you using B on faster roads with less stop & go (rural) and D on roads with more stop & go (urban)?

waynegalway

McGiver wrote: »

I also prefer the Eco mode, I turn it off only when I need a really quick acceleration e.g. at tight roundabouts etc.

But I absolutely don't switch between B and D, what's the benefit of it? Are you using B on faster roads with less stop & go (rural) and D on roads with more stop & go (urban)?

It’s not really as simple as a rural/urban divide, TBH.

Both D and B give almost the same level of regen. The difference is that B will slow you down more. I’d say I do about 90% in D and then shift to B when I know I need to slow down and/or come to a stop. Arriving at the back of a traffic jam, for example. Or even if going round a corner and I want to take a few kph off my speed. I see B mode as being a way to save wear and tear on the brake pads more than anything else.

Arguably B mode might give a tad more regen, but that’s offset by the fact that if you use it in the wrong circumstance, you’ll have to hit the accelerator to get back up to speed. And that’ll use up energy.

Anyway, we probably all have our own way of driving the cars, but that’s how I’m doing it and getting around 14.5kWh/100km at the moment. I expect that will rise to 16-17 in the depths of winter, and it went as low as about 12 in the summer.

McGiver

waynegalway wrote: »

It’s not really as simple and a rural/urban divide, TBH.

Both D and B give almost the same level of regen. The difference is that B will slow you down more. I’d say I do about 90% in D and then shift to B when I know I need to slow down and/or come to a stop. Arriving at the back of a traffic jam, for example. Or even if going round a corner and I want to take a few kph off my speed. I see B mode as being a way to save wear and tear on the brake pads more than anything else.

Arguably B mode might give a tad more regen, but that’s offset by the fact that if you use it in the wrong circumstance, you’ll have to hit the accelerator to get back up to speed. And that’ll use up energy.

Anyway, we probably all have our own way of driving the cars, but that’s how I’m doing it and getting around 14.5kWh/100km at the moment. I expect that will rise to 16-17 in the depths of winter, and it went as low as about 12 in the summer.

I think I've got it. I'll try D mode as the primary mode see the energy consumption.

What I think I do right is to switch to the B mode when coming to roundabouts on 100/120kph roads, there I saw a huge regen without me having to brake at all (I'd brake only when I coming to stop), I think this is the the right scenario to use the B for for.

McGiver

Anyway sorry for the OT.

Has anyone tried the My Leaf app?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=dk.kjeldsen.carwingsflutter

I find it way better than the Nissan app. I think it's Android only.

waynegalway

McGiver wrote: »

Anyway sorry for the OT.

Has anyone tried the My Leaf app?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=dk.kjeldsen.carwingsflutter

I find it way better than the Nissan app. I think it's Android only.

I tried a couple of apps (iOS), but they all just get their data from Carwings and the Nissan servers anyway, so you’re just as well off with the Nissan one. The only differences are cosmetic. If the Nissan one isn’t working due to say a server issue, then the 3rd party ones won’t work either.

KCross

McGiver wrote: »

But I absolutely don't switch between B and D, what's the benefit of it? Are you using B on faster roads with less stop & go (rural) and D on roads with more stop & go (urban)?

The only difference between B and D is more aggressive regen in B. So when you take your foot off the accelerator it will slow down quicker by using more regen.

It makes no difference while accelerating or cruising.
Its really only useful in stop/start traffic where you wont have to use the brakes as much.

McGiver

OK, so I've tried using mostly the D mode. It does regen but less, I tried coasting a bit. Overall, I just have slightly less acceleration but also slightly less regen, so the sum is almost the same as with driving in the B mode. Maybe 0.01kWh/km better.

Heater eats a lot, basically all the regen is lost on the heating. See attached. I'm getting 0.19kWh/km. No way I can do 0.15kWh/km. I don't understand how can you get that unless you don't use the heater at all.

waynegalway

McGiver wrote: »

I don't understand how can you get that unless you don't use the heater at all.

Nope, I use heater and AC as I would in any car. These days I have it set to 20 degrees and “auto”.

I’m working on a project at work which is aimed at being a “live lab” of EV driving. My monthly stats for my first year of ownership are up on the website I’m developing for the project.

Have a look:

https://zerodriving.blogspot.com

You’ll notice that I get better stats as I get used to the car, and especially in the warmer weather.

I think you’ll get better stats over time too. It’s still early days for you (plus the weather is cooler).

If you like, we can meet up and I’ll do a short round trip with you in my car, so you can see how I drive it. Then if you’re willing we can do the same trip with me driving your car. I bet the stats would be roughly the same. Plus, you have to remember that over short periods the consumption will fluctuate. You probably need to work off monthly averages.

KCross

waynegalway wrote: »

I’m working on a project at work which is aimed at being a “live lab” of EV driving. My monthly stats for my first year of ownership are up on the website I’m developing for the project.

Have a look:

https://zerodriving.blogspot.com

I'd imagine the CO2 data given by Nissan is not that relevant to the Irish grid. Do we even know how they calculate that figure?

Anyway, the Irish grid CO2 data is publicly available so maybe you should consider recalculating that value? Its not that hard to do.

waynegalway

KCross wrote: »

I'd imagine the CO2 data given by Nissan is not that relevant to the Irish grid. Do we even know how they calculate that figure?

Anyway, the Irish grid CO2 data is publicly available so maybe you should consider recalculating that value? Its not that hard to do.

I believe Nissan calculate it in the Carwings app by comparing your distance and consumption against a similarly sized petrol car, say a Pulsar. It’s more about CO2 from tailpipe than from grid. I’d say it’s rough enough, but it’s probably the best you can get (unless you can actually measure CO2 coming from the exhaust directly on another car). I suppose if you take the stated emissions figures from manufacturers websites you could get another source of data, but until that data starts being published using real world figures, it’s a shot in the dark. To be fair, it’s probably the fluffiest data that comes out of the Nissan app.