Why doesn't Ireland have mandatory sentences for those assaulting emergency personnel

WoollyRedHat

While Halloween is a time for mischief and magic, there is also the ugly side to it, with some less desirable members of society thinking it's good fun to set off fireworks etc. at Emergency Personnel at this time of year for ****s and giggles. I think it's absolutely crazy that they can away with it with the usual slap on the wrist, it's surely high time that we issue mandatory sentencing for this kind of thing like they do in the States, same for transport workers, to make these people think again before they decide to attack ambulance, fireworkers and Gardaí.

I also think there should be way more council run events that are closely monitored, there would be less illegal bonfires if you gave people an outlet and got involved in a safe way, give scrotes less places to go to wreak havoc and do as they please too.

Harry Palmr

For the same reason mandatory sentences are very rare generally - they can't take account of circumstances (yes yes I know but it's a central plank of a fair judicial process)

Commanchie

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

While Halloween is a time for mischief and magic, there is also the ugly side to it, with some less desirable members of society thinking it's good fun to set off fireworks etc. at Emergency Personnel at this time of year for ****s and giggles. I think it's absolutely crazy that they can away with it with the usual slap on the risk, it's surely high time that we issue mandatory sentencing for this kind of thing like they do in the States, same for transport workers.

I also think there should be way more council run events that are closely monitored at this , gives them less places to go to wreak havoc and do as they please.

In ireland a Mandatory sentence doesnt really come into play unless life sentence is madatory for murder.

The judiciary follow a sentencing guide book, then they take into mitigation (The factors of the crime and accused)

Some crimes are not as severe as others- Although wrong throwing a firework at a fire engine putting out a bonfire and assaulting a paradmedic are 2 different scales and should be dealt with as such.

SEPT 23 1989

most areas used to be able to have non state supervised fun at Halloween with zero problems

dxhound2005

The Dail rejected the proposed Bill.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/mandatory-sentences-bill-rejected-1.740873

WoollyRedHat

Commanchie wrote: »

In ireland a Mandatory sentence doesnt really come into play unless life sentence is madatory for murder.

The judiciary follow a sentencing guide book, then they take into mitigation (The factors of the crime and accused)

Some crimes are not as severe as others- Although wrong throwing a firework at a fire engine putting out a bonfire and assaulting a paradmedic are 2 different scales and should be dealt with as such.

Obviously there has to be levels of consideration, but sorry if you set off a firework at a fire engine there has to be consequences.

WoollyRedHat

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The Dail rejected the proposed Bill.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/mandatory-sentences-bill-rejected-1.740873

Yet 6 years rs later here we are, useless.

dxhound2005

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Yet 6 years rs later here we are, useless.

But you got an answer to your question.

Commanchie

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Obviously there has to be levels of consideration, but sorry if you set off a firework at a fire engine there has to be consequences.

Of course there should be consequences. I said it was wrong I am a solicitor and deal on the side of criminal defence within the district courts where the majority of these offences are dealt with.

For setting a fire work off at paramedics, Id believe the sentence to be community service going by past cases(Summary disposal on a guilty plea)

WoollyRedHat

dxhound2005 wrote: »

But you got an answer to your question.

Political inaction is my main take home point, if the sentencing was consistent with offences enacted, then there wouldn't be wouldn't be such a need for it.

We need to take UKs lead on this,
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prison-sentences-double-emergency-services-assault-law-police-paramedics-nurses-firefighters-protect-a8534921.html?amp

WoollyRedHat

Commanchie wrote: »

Of course there should be consequences. I said it was wrong I am a solicitor and deal on the side of criminal defence within the district courts where the majority of these offences are dealt with.

For setting a fire work off at paramedics, Id believe the sentence to be community service going by past cases(Summary disposal on a guilty plea)

Sorry didn't mean to infer you didn't. As a matter of interest, how many of those cases end up being suspended sentences? I agree with community sentencing if done correctly.

Harry Palmr

What would be your mandatory sentence for throwing a hazardous substance at a first responder/s be?

WoollyRedHat

Harry Palmr wrote: »

For the same reason mandatory sentences are very rare generally - they can't take account of circumstances (yes yes I know but it's a central plank of a fair judicial process)

Fair enough but I think that once the circumstances have been accounted for, with the defendant found out against, there should be no get out of jail card and sentencing should reflect this.

dxhound2005

When there are mobs it is hard to get successful prosecutions of individuals, as shown by what happened in Tallaght. And being at night would make it harder for Halloween cases.

WoollyRedHat

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

While Halloween is a time for mischief and magic, there is also the ugly side to it, with some less desirable members of society thinking it's good fun to set off fireworks etc. at Emergency Personnel at this time of year for ****s and giggles. I think it's absolutely crazy that they can away with it with the usual slap on the wrist, it's surely high time that we issue mandatory sentencing for this kind of thing like they do in the States, same for transport workers, to make these people think again before they decide to attack ambulance, fireworkers and Gardaí.

I also think there should be way more council run events that are closely monitored, there would be less illegal bonfires if you gave people an outlet and got involved in a safe way, give scrotes less places to go to wreak havoc and do as they please too.

I'm in agreement, but that would require a gradual unfurling of red tape...

WoollyRedHat

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What would be your mandatory sentence for throwing a hazardous substance at a first responder/s be?

6 months to a year and not advisory if we're going to give it the level of seriousness it deserves.

Commanchie

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Sorry didn't mean to infer you didn't. As a matter of interest, how many of those cases end up being suspended sentences? I agree with community sentencing if done correctly.

Id say 85% are suspended sentences possibly higher. Smaller scale offences tend to be isolated incidents from first time offenders so a judge will suspend, Apply probation act or give community service in Lieu

WoollyRedHat

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When there are mobs it is hard to get successful prosecutions of individuals, as shown by what happened in Tallaght. And being at night would make it harder for Halloween cases.

This is why I'm also in agreement with a civic solution to go hand in hand. With specific reference to this time of year, the reason such a situation is allowed to prosper is decision to crack down on unsupervised bonfires etc without stepping in to fill the breach hence creating a vacuum.

Stovepipe

I think the fixing of a belt fed machine gun to the top of the fire engine might solve the issue....just saying...

Commanchie

Stovepipe wrote: »

I think the fixing of a belt fed machine gun to the top of the fire engine might solve the issue....just saying...

Righttttt. Very mature.

El_Bee

Kids are going to build a great big bonfire in the middle of our estate, if the council try to intercept the materials before it is set alight they will be attacked with stones, if the fire brigade attempt to put out the fire they will be attacked also. the fire will billow smoke into our homes for several hours, then when it is reduced to a small flame and the kids have all gone in a large group of "youths" will drink around it and scream and shout "YUP" until the early hours of the morning, there will also be joyriders in the estate. The gards will drive around the estate once during the day and give the place the all clear, saying there was a gardai presence in our estate on halloween. Happy Halloween everyone.

PlaneSpeeking

Commanchie wrote: »

Righttttt. Very mature.

It would solve the problem of feral gob****es thinking it's amusing to assault emergency personnel.

Commanchie

El_Bee wrote: »

Kids are going to build a great big bonfire in the middle of our estate, if the council try to intercept the materials before it is set alight they will be attacked with stones, if the fire brigade attempt to put out the fire they will be attacked also. the fire will billow smoke into our homes for several hours, then when it is reduced to a small flame and the kids have all gone in a large group of "youths" will drink around it and scream and shout "YUP" until the early hours of the morning, there will also be joyriders in the estate. The gards will drive around the estate once during the day and give the place the all clear, saying there was a gardai presence in our estate on halloween. Happy Halloween everyone.

Sounds about right. And its pronounced Elongated Yooooooooppppp

DEFTLEFTHAND

Shocking lack of respect in this country for emergency personnel.

A ban garda was beaten up on duty in my home town a couple of weeks ago.

Who the hell thinks they can get away with assaulting a police officer.

Commanchie

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

It would solve the problem of feral gob****es thinking it's amusing to assault emergency personnel.

It doesnt. Tried and tested in Northern Ireland.

gctest50

Stovepipe wrote: »

I think the fixing of a belt fed machine gun to the top of the fire engine might solve the issue....just saying...

and should we shoot these ones too ?

https://www.thejournal.ie/paramedic-hse-courts-3890945-Mar2018/


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