Offer Under Asking Price

Josh1975

Hi,

About to put in my first offer on a house and need advice.

There are two houses around 330 k range in D15(Clonsilla/Clonee). Both of them are 4 bed, however me and my wife went to see it and both of them are destroyed since they were rented.

All the floors, toilets, windows will need to be changed/replaced.

We can go above asking price, but for us the house is not even worth the asking price. We understand that the two houses are very spacious but there is too much work to be done on it and we want to offer way under the asking price.

Anyone have experience with this? What would be a fair offer, on a house that needs a complete revamp ? Both of these houses are not moving for month or two .

Atlantic Dawn

What price are comparable homes going for in the area which are in better internal condition?

Josh1975

I checked on property register one in the same area, the ones that are better in condition sell anywhere between 300k to 350 k.

SteM

Are both the houses being marketed by the same agent?

Josh1975

Nope, I just checked there is a 3rd one close by and its the same price. All different estate agents.

RunRoryRun

Saw a post on this forum recently that stuck with me. If you’re not embarrassed at how low your opening offer is, then it’s too high. Not saying I’d subscribe to it entirely but it’s something to consider!!!

Offer what you want to (below / at / above) - tell the agent to keep you updated with any developments. That’s as much as you can do.

Graham

Keep in mind the property price register is nowhere near instant, you could be looking at sale prices agreed many many months ago.

If similar properties in better condition sell between 300k and 350k, would you not buy one of those?

Josh1975

To be honest no, I would prefer something that need a complete revamp and then I can do it according to my taste.

Honestfrank01

I think put a bid on what you think it's worth or if you can do some calculations on what it would cost for repairs etc then deduct that off the asking price. No harm in getting the ball moving with a bid you might be lucky and it will show who else is intrested in the property too if any counter bids.

Bit of advice on bidding try not get attached to the property

davindub

Josh1975 wrote: »

Hi,

About to put in my first offer on a house and need advice.

There are two houses around 330 k range in D15(Clonsilla/Clonee). Both of them are 4 bed, however me and my wife went to see it and both of them are destroyed since they were rented.

All the floors, toilets, windows will need to be changed/replaced.

We can go above asking price, but for us the house is not even worth the asking price. We understand that the two houses are very spacious but there is too much work to be done on it and we want to offer way under the asking price.

Anyone have experience with this? What would be a fair offer, on a house that needs a complete revamp ? Both of these houses are not moving for month or two .

Are there no offers on either?

I would offer way below the asking price even if in good condition, if someone else wants it they can outbid you if not, the vendor might not want to sell, but at least you know what the reaction to the bid is.

spaceHopper

Arrange a viewing on the same day on all 3. Pay a Quantity Surveyor to come with you, let the EA's know you are looking at all 3 and the QS will advies on cost. How old are the houses, factor in wring, insulation, windows plastering, painting and flooring. Where you will live while the work is done. Will you make any changes that need planning permission... make an offer on at least 2 of them and first to accept wins. That will put the vendors under pressure. But your offer has to be realsitic too

bri007

We bid under offer on a property two months ago, it was 15k Ünder, then another couple bid more and we walked away.

We got a call yesterday from estate agent asking if we are prepared to offer our original amount and they are prepared to close at this price. Estate agent said the other bidder failed to disclose that they had their own property to sell!

Anyway, we declined it as we have decided on another area to look to buy in.

We have since bid on another house we really like, we went under offer on this too as it requires a lot of work.

We put this offer in nearly 4 weeks ago, nobody has bid on it apart from us. We asked estate agent what vendors think of offer and he said no not interested in it.

They have had open viewings since but still no other bidder, estate agent keeps ringing us asking to up our offer and he will revert back to the vendor.

We decided not to bid anymore as we are just bidding on ourselves, we like the house but feel the offer is suitable considering the condition and work required.

forgodssake

Always bid way lower , you can always go up later. Our house up for 175k put bid in for 150k . Agreed on 155k . You don't ask you don't get . Best of luck

JustMe,K

bri007 wrote: »

We bid under offer on a property two months ago, it was 15k Ünder, then another couple bid more and we walked away.

We got a call yesterday from estate agent asking if we are prepared to offer our original amount and they are prepared to close at this price. Estate agent said the other bidder failed to disclose that they had their own property to sell!

Anyway, we declined it as we have decided on another area to look to buy in.

We have since bid on another house we really like, we went under offer on this too as it requires a lot of work.

We put this offer in nearly 4 weeks ago, nobody has bid on it apart from us. We asked estate agent what vendors think of offer and he said no not interested in it.

They have had open viewings since but still no other bidder, estate agent keeps ringing us asking to up our offer and he will revert back to the vendor.

We decided not to bid anymore as we are just bidding on ourselves, we like the house but feel the offer is suitable considering the condition and work required.

I have a friend in a similar position - EA was literally trying to get them to bid against themselves using such lines as 'the vendor thinks the offer is a little light' with no indication of what would buy the property. Anyway, after lots of back and forth and weeks of delays its now sale agreed at 30k below asking. It will be a fine house when its done but needs 100k spent on it, so really was not worth the asking price at all. its questionable if its really worth the price its agreed at also given the level of work required but they are happy with what they are paying.

bri007

That’s exactly what the estate agent emailed us, ‘the vendor thinks the offer is a little low’ and again similar no indication of the vendor would accept.

It has been on the market at least 6 months now and it would require at the minimum €80k to fix it up.

Friends of mine are saying uo our bid but I don’t think we should considering there are no other offers, yes there has been interest when we viewed it but they have yet to make any formal offers.

kcdiom wrote: »

I have a friend in a similar position - EA was literally trying to get them to bid against themselves using such lines as 'the vendor thinks the offer is a little light' with no indication of what would buy the property. Anyway, after lots of back and forth and weeks of delays its now sale agreed at 30k below asking. It will be a fine house when its done but needs 100k spent on it, so really was not worth the asking price at all. its questionable if its really worth the price its agreed at also given the level of work required but they are happy with what they are paying.

sbsquarepants

If you could get to talk to the seller directly I think you'd have more chance of swaying them.
Estate agents just can't be trusted by and large - we've all heard a ton of stories of dodgy deals and fake counter bids and so on. Even if they are 100% above board all they want is the highest price - the seller might want things to move a bit faster for example, or not to be a link in a chain or something along those lines.

Misguided1

bri007 wrote: »

That’s exactly what the estate agent emailed us, ‘the vendor thinks the offer is a little low’ and again similar no indication of the vendor would accept.

It has been on the market at least 6 months now and it would require at the minimum €80k to fix it up.

Friends of mine are saying uo our bid but I don’t think we should considering there are no other offers, yes there has been interest when we viewed it but they have yet to make any formal offers.

Similar experience. Offered below the asking price. EA told us the buyer would sell to us if we offered the full asking. We said no as we would be bidding against ourselves and had bid on another property. Our offer was accepted within a few days. Go low, hold your nerve but be prepared to walk away.

bri007

Yeah I totally agree with you, I actually think the estate agent hasn’t put our bid to the vendor at all by the way he said it to us. He is banking on a bidding process by looks of it.

We really do like the house but can’t let out hearts over rule our heads on this one, we will play it by year but possibly next week we will start looking elsewhere again.

It’s just strange it’s been for sale so long and we are first bidders in 6 months and they are not willing to negotiate with us more, even though there are no other bidders!

sbsquarepants wrote: »

If you could get to talk to the seller directly I think you'd have more chance of swaying them.
Estate agents just can't be trusted by and large - we've all heard a ton of stories of dodgy deals and fake counter bids and so on. Even if they are 100% above board all they want is the highest price - the seller might want things to move a bit faster for example, or not to be a link in a chain or something along those lines.

bri007

Thanks for the reply,

Yeah I feel they probably won’t accept our offer now, as it has been 4 weeks now this week since we placed the offer to the EA.

We were tempted to up the offer but with no feedback from EA we decided not to in the end.

It’s frustrating but your right, be prepared to walk away and hopefully something else will turn up.

Misguided1 wrote: »

Similar experience. Offered below the asking price. EA told us the buyer would sell to us if we offered the full asking. We said no as we would be bidding against ourselves and had bid on another property. Our offer was accepted within a few days. Go low, hold your nerve but be prepared to walk away.

M.Cribben

sbsquarepants wrote: »

If you could get to talk to the seller directly I think you'd have more chance of swaying them.
Estate agents just can't be trusted by and large - we've all heard a ton of stories of dodgy deals and fake counter bids and so on. Even if they are 100% above board all they want is the highest price - the seller might want things to move a bit faster for example, or not to be a link in a chain or something along those lines.

A good EA will meet the seller's criteria too.
There's a lot of resentment towards EAs generally on this forum, some of it warranted yes but in most cases they are just following the seller's instructions.
I see a lot of posts like "my super low offer, way under asking price was rejected, bloody estate agents" - it's the seller rejecting your offer because they are most likely in a chain and buying another property under the same market conditions so (when EA fees/stamp duty/conveyancing/etc is taken into account) probably can't afford to go below a certain price.

Obviously you want to pay the lowest price possible for the property, but people forget there's someone (just like you) on the other side of the EA who wants the highest price possible for the property. The EA's job is to negotiate to a point that satisfies both parties.



They really aren't the evil green-eyed monsters everyone is making them out to be. The out of control sale and rental prices in urban areas we're forced to pay (with a bitter taste in our mouth) are a result of failed government policies and economic factors, not EAs.

Cuddlesworth

bri007 wrote: »

Yeah I totally agree with you, I actually think the estate agent hasn’t put our bid to the vendor at all by the way he said it to us. He is banking on a bidding process by looks of it.

We really do like the house but can’t let out hearts over rule our heads on this one, we will play it by year but possibly next week we will start looking elsewhere again.

It’s just strange it’s been for sale so long and we are first bidders in 6 months and they are not willing to negotiate with us more, even though there are no other bidders!

Your posts are the perfect example of how to bid on a house. Offer what you think its worth, don't get bullied into bidding against yourself or others, don't limit yourself to one option and be aware that sometimes what the vendors think its worth is not what your willing to pay.

What I would advise is to turn up to other open viewings by the same estate agent(even if the house isn't interesting). And keep doing it as you go through the process. Until both party's sign and the solicitors give the all clear, keep looking.

q85dw7osi4lebg

sbsquarepants wrote: »

If you could get to talk to the seller directly I think you'd have more chance of swaying them.
Estate agents just can't be trusted by and large - we've all heard a ton of stories of dodgy deals and fake counter bids and so on. Even if they are 100% above board all they want is the highest price - the seller might want things to move a bit faster for example, or not to be a link in a chain or something along those lines.

Why do you think EA's want the highest price?

Because it's their job to do so for their client - the vendor.

If a vendor wanted to deal with purchasers directly, they wouldn't hire an EA.

spaceHopper

bri007 wrote: »

We decided not to bid anymore as we are just bidding on ourselves

We did that to get the house we wanted and got it. Even if there are no other bidders there is a price below which the owner will not sell you have to come up to at least that or walk. It was 8K more but well worth it in the end.

JustMe,K

bri007 wrote: »

That’s exactly what the estate agent emailed us, ‘the vendor thinks the offer is a little low’ and again similar no indication of the vendor would accept.

It has been on the market at least 6 months now and it would require at the minimum €80k to fix it up.

Friends of mine are saying uo our bid but I don’t think we should considering there are no other offers, yes there has been interest when we viewed it but they have yet to make any formal offers.

As has been said, I wouldnt be bullied into paying more than I want or am comfortable with - in my friends situation I think 5 or 6 weeks passed between them saying a firm no to increasing their bid (which coincidentally knocked the usual cash buyer who is also a builder out of the running) and the EA coming back to them.

Its hard to know whether the owners are simply taking the guidance from the EA's and the EA's are not getting their pricing on point, or whether the owners have unrealistic expectations as to what their properties are worth.

I would be a fan of a sealed bidding system like in Scotland, because you only have the EA's word for it that your bid has even gone to the vendor. Could you find out who owns the house and speak to them directly maybe?

alias no.9

Don't bid more than you're happy with but from an estate agents point of view, they get their money from making a sale, getting an extra 2k or even 5k does not add a whole lot extra and the time it takes to get it could be better spent trying to sell another property. It's unlikely they're not passing on offers unless they've been instructed not to bother with offers less than a certain threshold. Oftentimes a lowball offer is useful to use to draw other bidders in.

Cuddlesworth

spaceHopper wrote: »

We did that to get the house we wanted and got it. Even if there are no other bidders there is a price below which the owner will not sell you have to come up to at least that or walk. It was 8K more but well worth it in the end.

In his case, they haven't come back with a figure they would consider or opened any real lines of negotiation, so its almost certain that the vendor is looking for considerably more then the market is offering.

After a few months of no interest or bids, its possible estate agent pressure will make them open talks(vendor would accept bid + 10k for example) or pull the house off the market.

Certain markets are showing signs of stagnation. Vendors and estate agents were looking at houses sold 12 months previous and listing at 10-20% more. Meanwhile people have been hitting affordability limits and those prices rises at some point are no longer attainable. There will be a subset of people in specific markets still bidding up, but not all of them.

Shamboo1801

Recently put in a bid 35k under price. Told no way. Told EA to put in offer and he came back and said go up 5k and sold. I went up 5k but wanted all whites included. Deal done. Be brave and you just might get lucky.

sbsquarepants

Neil Spoiled Thermometer wrote: »

Why do you think EA's want the highest price?

Because it's their job to do so for their client - the vendor.

If a vendor wanted to deal with purchasers directly, they wouldn't hire an EA.

Generally yes - higher offers suit the vendor, but not always. Sometimes people are perfectly willing to sell for below peak value, for reasons of speed or something along those lines.

Plus lot of people just don't realise they can deal directly or would be nervous of doing so.

I personally know of a guy cut in excess of 50k off the estate agents "highest received bid" by directly approaching the seller.

spaceHopper

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

In his case, they haven't come back with a figure they would consider or opened any real lines of negotiation, so its almost certain that the vendor is looking for considerably more then the market is offering.

After a few months of no interest or bids, its possible estate agent pressure will make them open talks(vendor would accept bid + 10k for example) or pull the house off the market.

Certain markets are showing signs of stagnation. Vendors and estate agents were looking at houses sold 12 months previous and listing at 10-20% more. Meanwhile people have been hitting affordability limits and those prices rises at some point are no longer attainable. There will be a subset of people in specific markets still bidding up, but not all of them.

So tell the EA, there's no sign of a bidding war or other offers, this house isn't going over asking. What figure had they in mind.

We were 17 k under asking I meet them in the middle and came up to half way between our offer and the asking, I stressed to the EA that I was "meeting them in the middle" so as to give them a win and it was accepted, that was at the bottom of the market. Right now I think we could be near the top because of CB rules but there is very little supply which is propping up prices.

The OP can be passive or active about it. Tell the EA's what will it take to close this, they should know, if the try to play poker and not disclose it say fine there are 2 other house we like, comeback to me if anything changes

Value a comparable good house
Value the work to be done
Double it and subtract from price of good house
This is the fair price
Make an offer something less than this and see if they'll negotiate.

riclad

The agent tells the seller what the house is worth,
the seller is not a builder or a carpenter.
IF you think it,s gonna cost 80 k to fix it up,
maybe you could get a surveyor to submit documents and a survey done,
saying it,ll cost x amount to refurbish the house.
I can,t see how tenants could cause 80k of damage to a house.
bad tenants may ruin carpets ,wallpaper, crack plaster ,
they do,nt normally cause structural damage.
write to the agent, heres a survey, it,ll cost me x to do repairs.
My offer is based on this survey.
I know it,ll cost you 500 euro to do a survey and your offer may be refused .

Josh1975

Thank you for all the replies. So I made 3 offers on the houses. Two never replied so far probably thinking that I am a chancer, one replied saying even though that the house needs around 50k investment, the market value of the house in that area is around 370 so I would be getting a good deal for asking price of 325. There is an offer of 320k on that house and they asked to counter offer and it would be wise to do, because apparently this house will go up to 370k easy in January because banks will be able to lend 4.5 for some people :P

I replied that my final offer is 275k and to call me if the sale falls trough.

Time to look for other properties

davindub

Josh1975 wrote: »

Thank you for all the replies. So I made 3 offers on the houses. Two never replied so far probably thinking that I am a chancer, one replied saying even though that the house needs around 50k investment, the market value of the house in that area is around 370 so I would be getting a good deal for asking price of 325. There is an offer of 320k on that house and they asked to counter offer and it would be wise to do, because apparently this house will go up to 370k easy in January because banks will be able to lend 4.5 for some people :P

I replied that my final offer is 275k and to call me if the sale falls trough.

Time to look for other properties

You got to love the weasel logic. If the house were capable of selling for 370 in Jan you can be sure it will be still on the market at that time......

Josh1975

davindub wrote: »

You got to love the weasel logic. If the house were capable of selling for 370 in Jan you can be sure it will be still on the market at that time......

It is what it is, if they call they call if not I keep grinding

Josh1975

riclad wrote: »

The agent tells the seller what the house is worth,
the seller is not a builder or a carpenter.
IF you think it,s gonna cost 80 k to fix it up,
maybe you could get a surveyor to submit documents and a survey done,
saying it,ll cost x amount to refurbish the house.
I can,t see how tenants could cause 80k of damage to a house.
bad tenants may ruin carpets ,wallpaper, crack plaster ,
they do,nt normally cause structural damage.
write to the agent, heres a survey, it,ll cost me x to do repairs.
My offer is based on this survey.
I know it,ll cost you 500 euro to do a survey and your offer may be refused .

Not being bad or anything, but in this house floors started rising, all the floors need to be replaced. All 3 toilets damaged to bits. It has built in wardrobes that are damaged to bits, need to take them out. Holes in the walls. Few leaks.

Anyway For me the house is not worth more than 275k and I am sticking to that. No point getting a survey done, if the vendor is not willing to budge. Money down the drain