Bipolar Famiy member - vile abuse

rosebud8

My sister in law (Sil) recently verbally attacked me in a most hideous and vile way. This is the first time I have been on the receiving end of such an attack. She had been feeling stressed and had taken some time off work. On my day off, I offered to take her out for lunch and a drive. Out of nowhere our day flipped from pleasant chat to a hideous 40 verbal attack on me and the threat of violence. She said some truly hurtful things about me as a wife and parent. I have a good solid marriage and two bright, happy well adjusted teenagers. I did not respond or retaliate during this completely unprovoked attack. I was driving at the time. My SIL has been under the care of her specialist tram and after several weeks is ‘feeling better’ and had returned to work. I avoided any contact with her for several days and I received a curt ‘I am sorry for what I did, let’s put it behind us, I never want to talk about it because it upsets me’. For the sake of family harmony I have put I behind me and we met at a family gathering about 10 days later. I understand she was unwell when she said that really hurtful stuff. She was very angry and aggressive towards me. A few weeks have elapsed now and I have been thinking back on the nasty things she said to me. I want to understand where these most unpleasant thoughts came from. I wonder if there is an element of truth in that is how she truly sees me. I need her to truly acknowledge what she said and did. And I need to understand why. I am sure there are no easy answers here. My husband feels that I should just let it go on the basis that she was very unwell at the time. Should I push for a dialogue with her and get her to face up to what she did and the hurt she caused me? Or should I let it go.

The Black Oil

Moved from Psychology to Personal Issues. PI charter now applies.

Big Bag of Chips

What good do you think will come from asking her to explain herself and asking her if what she said is what she truly believes? Do you think she would apologise profusely and explain she was lashing out and said what she knew would hurt? Chances are if she felt that way, or if she was going to say it, she'd have come to you by now.

My guess is she's embarrassed/ashamed of her behaviour and really wants nothing more than to just move on.

I would suggest you let it go in the sense that "talking it out" is unlikely to have the ending you hope for. But you don't have to "let it go" in the sense that you don't have to forget it happened, and just keep a polite distance from her. Be civil when in company but don't seek her company out. It easy to discretely avoid someone without drawing attention to an issue.

never_mind

OP, sometimes things are non issues and/or are bigger than you. This is not a reflection of you but of her mental instability. Don’t kick someone while they’re down.

iamwhoiam

My cousin has a mental illness and has said the most horrendous things to her family when she is not well . They now know they come from a dark place in her mind and can seperate it from her .
People when struggling with inner deamons will lash out and I think for your own sanity maybe you can seperate this episode from the SIL you care about

zoobizoo

When someone is going through a bi-polar episode, they are not at all themselves and what they say isn't being "said" by the person you know.


I have a friend with bipolar who I have minded for the last 25 year when he has episodes. He's an atheist - has been since he was a teenager.

When he has an episode he believes that he is Jesus and that I am the holy spirit.... you see, no reasoning / no truth / no basis.


There is a great deal of shame that those who have bipolar feel because they remember what they did and how they behaved.



Imagine someone bringing up your most shameful behaviour and demanding thati you to justify or explain it......



"I need her to truly acknowledge what she said and did. And I need to understand why. "

NO, you don't. You want her to - you don't need her to. What you need to do is understand that it wasn't "her" that did / said it.

wiggle16

She doesn't need to explain it OP. You already know why she had that outburst, there's nothing to be gleaned out of asking her to dissect it. You might as well ask her why she is bipolar - because that's why it happened.

She did apologise and the apology itself clearly shows she is ashamed of what she did.

Put it this way, we have all had rows with people and in the heat of the moment said things that we wish we hadn't, and that we didn't mean. This is just an extreme version of that. When you are angry at a person you can pick out a million negative things about them - that doesn't mean that's what you really think of them. It's just anger.

You do not need her to acknowledge anything, she has apologised. What you need is to realise that this was a result of her illness and be the bigger person, and let it go.

nikkibikki

never_mind wrote:

OP, sometimes things are non issues and/or are bigger than you. This is not a reflection of you but of her mental instability. Don’t kick someone while they’re down.

But what about the OP's feelings? They are just as important as her sister in laws feelings, and the fact that her sister in law has bipolar doesn't negate that. It's not a non issue, the OP is obviously very hurt and understandably so.

wiggle16 wrote:

She did apologise and the apology itself clearly shows she is ashamed of what she did.

Agree and I think that is all you will get from her tbh. I don't think she's the one who can help you move past it. Your husband maybe? Try explain to him how hurt and worried you feel. Don't accept this "forget about it" attitude, your feelings are legitimate and they are important. There also may be a support group for family members of people with bipolar, they might also be of assistance to you.

wiggle16

nikkibikki wrote: »

But what about the OP's feelings? They are just as important as her sister in laws feelings, and the fact that her sister in law has bipolar doesn't negate that. It's not a non issue, the OP is obviously very hurt and understandably so.

Agree and I think that is all you will get from her tbh. I don't think she's the one who can help you move past it. Your husband maybe? Try explain to him how hurt and worried you feel. Don't accept this "forget about it" attitude, your feelings are legitimate and they are important. There also may be a support group for family members of people with bipolar, they might also be of assistance to you.

I agree the OP's feelings are understandably hurt and the way she feels is completely legitimate. But the forget-about-it viewpoint is not meant to be dismissive of the OP's feelings, it's to put it in perspective.

This verbal attack was a part of the woman's illness, the point being that the OP should be able to take comfort from that fact: the abuse was not the result of anything she did or how her SIL actually feels about her, it is just a symptom of her illness. She probably would have had a go at the nearest person if the OP hadn't been there. It's not nice but it's a symptom of illness and not necessarily indicative of how her SIL feels about her privately. The OP needs to realise that bipolar disorder is not a truth serum.

Think about it this way: if you were caring for someone who is sick, and they vomited on you, it's understood that it wasn't intentional and the person couldn't help it. You might be annoyed, and that's fine, but you don't hold it against them. Without being overly simplistic, this situation is fundamentally no different. The SIL abused the OP because of her illness, so she should let it go. She shouldn't fall out with her over something she could not control.

nikkibikki

wiggle16 wrote:

I agree the OP's feelings are understandably hurt and the way she feels is completely legitimate. But the forget-about-it viewpoint is not meant to be dismissive of the OP's feelings, it's to put it in perspective.

I think the OP needs to deal with these feelings and not brush them under the rug, to protect her own mental health. Often times I find that if hurt feelings are acknowledged that it helps in dealing with them. SIL has acknowledged them by apologising but took control then by refusing to speak further about it, and that's probably what she needs to do to cope with what happened, she likely feels terribly guilty. If it were me, I'd be hurt further if my husband told me to just forget about it. I'd expect him to acknowledge that it was out of line and it's ok to be upset and for him to help and support me. In this situation, though, it would do no good, only harm to everyone, if the OP confronted the sister in law again. That's why I suggested a support group, I know Pieta House have been fantastic with my family in dealing with someone with depression and gave advice on protecting ourselves as well so thought/hoped there might be something similar for family members of people with bipolar.

Your analogy I thought was very good in fairness.

SuperRabbit

You are worried she really does see you the way she seemed to see you when she was angry and sick. It hurts to have people close to us say cruel things, whatever the reason. I don't know how you should proceed, because I don't know your SIL, but whatever you do I hope you feel better.


I think the first step is to just make sure you know why it hurts. There are a lots of reasons I came up with that it might hurt and it could be many of them or none of them or just one.

1. You are close to her and you like her, so of course it hurts, whether she meant it or not.
2. You like her so you really want her to like you too and you are worried she doesn't.
3. As a part of your partner's family, you worry how she sees you might be reflective of how the rest of them see you.
4. You worry there may be a grain of truth in what she said.
5. You are holding onto a bit of anger because when someone attacks us we really want to defend ourselves, and as she is sick you couldn't / can't do that.
6. You are a little bit afraid because it was such a shock, and you want to understand it inside out because we tend to want to understand things we are afraid of.

You can see most of the things on the list don't actually have much to do with her, so if it is anything like that then talking to her wouldn't make you feel better.

What do you think? Is it any of these things? Something else?

s7ryf3925pivug

Two close family members have/had it, and I acted as primary carer for each of them.

You're angry about symptoms of an illness.

Insisting she acknowledges what she said and did would be cruel and pointless. Don't do that.

Manic people experience exaggerated extremes of emotion and can be in an exaggerated state of fight or flight. They can also become psychotic, which means they lose their grip on reality.

Bipolar is a **** uncurable condition. This is reflected in its very high suicide rates. One tirade from a sick person with a ****ty disorder is something you should move past.

valoren

While it is shocking to experience such abuse it might be an idea to suggest that if this is to happen again that you will physically remove yourself from the abuse. You endured this for 45 minutes in a car, a contained environment. I would speak to your husband and say if it happens again in a car, that you won't be enduring it up to pulling over, leaving the car with the keys and even getting a bus home.

It's easy to compartmentalize what happened to it being a psychotic episode and not a personal attack. She knows nothing of note about you or your relationship with anybody, don't forget that.

dixiefly

valoren wrote: »

While it is shocking to experience such abuse it might be an idea to suggest that if this is to happen again that you will physically remove yourself from the abuse. You endured this for 45 minutes in a car, a contained environment. I would speak to your husband and say if it happens again in a car, that you won't be enduring it up to pulling over, leaving the car with the keys and even getting a bus home.

It's easy to compartmentalize what happened to it being a psychotic episode and not a personal attack. She knows nothing of note about you or your relationship with anybody, don't forget that.

I would agree with this but just to add. If I was the OP I would not get into that situation again. I would be pleasant when meeting and try and build the relationship but I would never offer to bring her out like that again. A line has been crossed and soe aspects of the previous relationship may never recover or at least for a very long time.

bertsmom

I'm not sure I would be ever letting myself be in that position again. It's not ok for anyone to sit and verbally abuse another person for 40 minutes for ANY reason.
I understand she wasn't well mentally at the time so I wouldn't treat it in the same manner as if she were well and just never speak to her in any way ever again but I think that if she is now well again and hasn't addressed what she said at the time it's very poor form of her to just expect it to be brushed under the carpet and not spoken of again!
If it were me as she is a sister in law and not actual sister or mother etc I wouldn't be having too much to do with her without an apology forthcoming or addressing what she said.
I don't think her illness absolves her from personal responsibility

Xterminator

bertsmom wrote: »

she is now well again and hasn't addressed what she said at the time it's very poor form of her to just expect it to be brushed under the carpet and not spoken of again! ...... I don't think her illness absolves her from personal responsibility

If you read the original post an apology was offered. did you miss that or ignore it?

OP what do you want to happen next here?

are you looking for fawning apologies and a promise of being godmother to the next child? not going to happen

should you be wary around this person, absolutely. I would suggest forgive but don't forget.

bertsmom

Xterminator wrote:

If you read the original post an apology was offered. did you miss that or ignore it?

Yes thank you for taking the time to point that out. I had missed that an apology was offered. I'm still not sure I would be having much interaction with this lady again though.
If the OP is finding it hard to process through what she said to her in that time and can't just let it go without worÄ·ing through it and the sister in law is not willing to speak about it and just doesn't want it mentioned ever again I can't see where the relationship being built upon is of any benefit to either of them.

zoobizoo

bertsmom wrote: »

I don't think her illness absolves her from personal responsibility

You may be unaware of the effects of bipolar.

You can't be responsible for when chemicals start to alter in ones brain and then you have a manic episode.

bertsmom

zoobizoo wrote:

You may be unaware of the effects of bipolar.

I am definitely not unaware of the effects of bipolar.

My point being that if each of them can't move forward (the sil because she doesn't wish to ever speak of the abuse she gave the OP again. The OP because she can't move on without speaking through the incident with the sil to let it go or move on)
So I can't see any way forward to build up the relationship again. A relationship would surely need both people to be comfortable and at ease with each other.
I would let it go but not be involved with the sil much in the future.

leggo

I grew up with someone close to me having bipolar OP, so I relate hard to this. From experience, what I'd recommend is to get as much information and understanding about the illness as you can. It's a chemical imbalance and incredibly difficult to live with, as you feel like yourself in the present moment and feel capable of rational thought, but your brain is working against you. It's a truly awful illness. Imagine never being fully sure if what you were saying was because you actually thought it or because you were sick, that's what they live with every second of every day, it's debilitating. So no, I'd say leave this. Guilt and shame are powerful enough emotions to live with without having this on top of it, it won't help her or you in the long run. As others have said, learn to separate the illness from the person. Love the person, hate the illness is a common refrain for the loved ones of people who have mental health difficulties and it really does sum it up.

As far as getting over the hurt feelings: generally when we're hurt like this, it's because the comments have touched a nerve and hit upon something we're insecure about. For example, if she accused you of being an alien from another planet, you wouldn't be hurt now because you'd know that was ridiculous. Being a mother, you know yourself that you can never do everything perfectly and just do your best at any given time, so there's always going to be guilt and insecurity that you could do better when you care about your children's wellbeing as much as I'm sure you do. So any comments from a close family member who'd have an insight into your life in that direction are going to leave a mark. But the way past this is to reassure yourself, to look at your children, your life and how differently it all could've turned out without your help and guidance, and to realise that the comments were crap from a sick person who wasn't in her right mind.

LegacyUser

Where does it say that the silver has bipolar. It just says that she was stressed. Being stressed is not a reason to lash out on someone. Nor is a "I'm sorry for what I did" a proper apology. It's not acknowledging what she did in any way. "What I done... I'm sorry"... Well, what exactly did she do? An acknowledgment of what she did and said followed by a sincere apology is a real apology.

wiggle16

stress is not reason wrote: »

Where does it say that the silver has bipolar. It just says that she was stressed......

It's in the thread title.......

LegacyUser

wiggle16 wrote: »

It's in the thread title.......

I had just clicked into the thread without looking at the title. My advice still remains though. Being stressed at the time is not an excuse to verbally insult someone. We all get stressed, I can make excuses if I want, "I was depressed", "mental issues", etc. It does not give someone to right to attack.

The OP can't move on unless she gets an acknowledgment and if that's what making amends entails, the sil should should acknowledge her behaviour and not have her whole entire family brush it under the carpet. It will just happen again and again because it's allowed to.

iamwhoiam

stress is not a reason wrote: »

I had just clicked into the thread without looking at the title. My advice still remains though. Being stressed at the time is not an excuse to verbally insult someone. We all get stressed, I can make excuses if I want, "I was depressed", "mental issues", etc. It does not give someone to right to attack.

The OP can't move on unless she gets an acknowledgment and if that's what making amends entails, the sil should should acknowledge her behaviour and not have her whole entire family brush it under the carpet. It will just happen again and again because it's allowed to.

In all fairness there is no comparison between being " stressed " and suffering from Bi Polar mental illness

wiggle16

stress is not a reason wrote: »

I had just clicked into the thread without looking at the title. My advice still remains though. Being stressed at the time is not an excuse to verbally insult someone. We all get stressed, I can make excuses if I want, "I was depressed", "mental issues", etc. It does not give someone to right to attack.

The OP can't move on unless she gets an acknowledgment and if that's what making amends entails, the sil should should acknowledge her behaviour and not have her whole entire family brush it under the carpet. It will just happen again and again because it's allowed to.

You clicked the thread and posted, without looking at the title. Okay.
Now you seem also to have clicked the thread, skipped the OP and posted, seeing how you are putting this issue down to stress and accusing the SIL of feigning her mental illness when convenient, or malingering.

You would do well to educate yourself about mental illness and psychological disorders. They are no different to diseases of the anatomy.

I have to say your attitude is profoundly ignorant.

Big Bag of Chips

stress is not a reason wrote: »

The OP can't move on unless she gets an acknowledgment and if that's what making amends entails, the sil should should acknowledge her behaviour

She did acknowledge her behaviour. And apologised.

I can't say I blame the OP for being very shaken after the experience. It wouldn't have been pleasant, and I'm sure the OP felt a bit threatened and vulnerable. In her shoes I would just be aware of the potential for this person to have these outbursts and limit the opportunity for them to happen around me.

Nobody could blame you for feeling like that, OP. But looking for an explanation isn't going to achieve anything.

suicide_circus

yeah I would be knocking the lunch dates on the head after that. she's not well but it's not your job to be her emotional punch bag when she has a "turn".

LegacyUser

wiggle16 wrote: »

You clicked the thread and posted, without looking at the title. Okay.
Now you seem also to have clicked the thread, skipped the OP and posted, seeing how you are putting this issue down to stress and accusing the SIL of feigning her mental illness when convenient, or malingering.

You would do well to educate yourself about mental illness and psychological disorders. They are no different to diseases of the anatomy.

I have to say your attitude is profoundly ignorant.

I wasn't saying the SIL was pretending. The third line into the OP's post says she was feeling stressed and had taken time of work.

LegacyUser

I have an in-law with a comparable severe mental illness. They often say very hurtful things to family members, and have gone as far as reporting completely fictional allegations to the Gardaí, medical professionals, employers, etc. They rarely have the insight to apologise, and like your SIL, never want to talk about the hurt, disruption and problems they've caused.

It has to be accepted that a person suffering (and they do suffer) from such a severe mental illness can never be fully held accountable for their thoughts, words and actions in the same way you'll hold someone who doesn't suffer from such illness to account. Their brains are literally working in a different way to other people, and they have no control over that. It's also somewhat futile to try to delineate between the "illness" and the "person". Sure, they'll be times when they're "well" that they don't say or do such extreme things, but the illness is as much a part of them (again though no fault of their own) as the colour of their eyes. That's not to say that they need to be totally defined by it, but it has to be accepted that the illness is an integral part of them, even when they're "well".

Finally, it's perfectly valid for you to protect yourself from their outbursts - even without blaming them. You don't have to put up with vile abuse from anyone, it's perfectly acceptable to remove yourself from the situation, or to make it so you don't get into potential situations with the person in the first place.

If you could get someone suffering from bi-polar disorder to change - to understand and admit to the hurt their words have caused, and to successfully undertake to never do it again - you'd win the Nobel Prize for Medicine.

You can't separate the illness from the person, but you can view the situation in the light of someone whose brain is literally not fully in tune with reality. And if you do that, you'll see that the (difficult) answer is to both give them some leeway in their behaviour, and yourself some space on not having to be confronted by it if it is too difficult to deal with.