Large Sliding Door

Kid Congo Power

Hi,

Looking for some advice here. We're building an extension and we have a 3m x 5.5m opening that faces the garden. Our plan is to have a full height sliding door with 2 fixed windows (or maybe 2 sliders and 1 fixed window). We didn't realise that this height would be such an issue but we now realise that most suppliers don't go to 3m. The obvious alternative is to have a fanlight but this would significantly reduce the 'wow factor' of the full height door/fixed window. We dont have the option of dropping the height of the void for other reasons.

So, a few specific questions:

1. Are we asking for trouble even considering a 3m slider - will we have problems down the road?

2. One supplier, Sean Doyle, has said he can do it in aluminium - any thoughts? Can you PM me with any specific concerns. Another supplier suggested aluminium is an inferior product in terms of performance?

3. If we were to go with a standard slider and a fanlight, how thick is the total framework likely to be between the door and the fanlight? How much actual glass could we expect to have in the fanlight? Would I have to put an RSJ between the slider and the fanlight?

4. Would French doors be a better alternative than a standard height slider? Would this option require an RSJ between the door and the fanlight?

As I say our preference is the full height slider, can people recommend a supplier other than Sean Doyle who might be a option. What sort of €€ might I expect to pay. We're based in Mayo btw.

Much obliged for any help.

Four Phucs Ache

With a price, anything is possible. The glass manufacturers have a set tooling system to produce the sizes required, after that its frame design.

A 3m height is huge.

2.6 appears to be norm for max height for a cost.

The weight of what your proposing or need will be substantial. Crane required.Possible roadblock etc.

At 5.5 wide by 3 high your looking at 2 units at 2.75 wide and 3 high. V.Heavy. Not mad, but maybe a different mode of transport required.

Engineering input required without question with possible caveats from the supplier as to the support for such a door , specific installation needs etc for the warranty/ guarantee.

Sounds amazing though 3m x 5.5 would be dream territory.

JonathonS

Reynaers and Schuco can do up to 3m high in aluminium. Tell your architect/engineer what you are planning to ensure your foundations are specced to take the weight.

Gumbo

JonathonS wrote: »

Reynaers and Schuco can do up to 3m high in aluminium. Tell your architect/engineer what you are planning to ensure your foundations are specced to take the weight.

What would the weight difference between a 3m high slider compared to a 3m high block wall?

I don't think the foundations will need to be altered in anyway.

Dudda

Are you in detail design or on site? I had this issue recently. Reducing to 2.7 meters tall opens up a huge amount of suppliers. I contacted a range of suppliers for their maximum size after getting planning permission for a client and reduced the height from 3.0m to 2.7 meters. I also reduced the width from 6.5m to 5.8 meters as this is the largest for one lift and slide door. I found above this width it gets divided into more segments which isn't as big of an issue for some. If you go above 2.7 meters high I found you really limit yourself and get into issues such as limited to commercial facades which come with their own price tags, airtightness is generally reduced as are security certificates. The multi point locking systems get messy. I wouldn't worry about the weight. A 500kg piece of glass moves with ease on a lift and slide if designed right. Strangely the 2.7 meter tall is limited by some manufactures as the height of the articulated truck and delivery and not the structure capacity of the frame.
Don't go the fanlight route and reduce the height of the ope if you have to.

Kid Congo Power

Thanks for all the info.

Unfortunately we're on site (with contractors getting anxious about a decision). We can't drop the 3m height (the extension is split level and if we dropped the height of the living room window (the 3x5) it would be lower than the dining room window and would look terrible. It does seem as if the full height slider is likely to be prohibitively expensive and also a bit of a gamble and we are now looking seriously at a fanlight. This is a compromise obviously but we are where we are and we will still have an awful lot of glass regardless, if not the same wow-factor.

The fanlight does bring additional questions though. Our preference would be to have one slider with 2 fixed windows with a fanlight running above all 3. However, I'm being told I would need to have an RSJ between the slider and the fanlight? This would mean a seriously deep frame between the 2 and is not a runner I reckon.

The alternative is to go with french doors + fanlight. Am I right in thinking this option would not need an RSJ?

My other main question at this stage is am I better to go with aluminium. As I want to keep the frames as unobtrusive as possible, would aluminium frames be noticeably thinner than uPVC?

massy086

-snip-

Try this company

Recommendations by PM thanks

Mbob

Dudda wrote: »

Are you in detail design or on site? I had this issue recently. Reducing to 2.7 meters tall opens up a huge amount of suppliers. I contacted a range of suppliers for their maximum size after getting planning permission for a client and reduced the height from 3.0m to 2.7 meters. I also reduced the width from 6.5m to 5.8 meters as this is the largest for one lift and slide door. I found above this width it gets divided into more segments which isn't as big of an issue for some. If you go above 2.7 meters high I found you really limit yourself and get into issues such as limited to commercial facades which come with their own price tags, airtightness is generally reduced as are security certificates. The multi point locking systems get messy. I wouldn't worry about the weight. A 500kg piece of glass moves with ease on a lift and slide if designed right. Strangely the 2.7 meter tall is limited by some manufactures as the height of the articulated truck and delivery and not the structure capacity of the frame.
Don't go the fanlight route and reduce the height of the ope if you have to.

Thanks this is very useful. I am in the planning process atm and have a large glass wall planned for Kitchen/dinning/living room. The room is 7 x 15m and I am hoping to have one side entirely glass (it looks out on the garden) roof height is 3m. So 15m long by 3m high. 2.7 for the height seems like it will be more achievable, of the 15m length I'd be happy if I could get 5m (or 5.8 as you've said above) to slide with the rest of it fixed.

can you provide a picture of the 2.7x5.8 sliding door?

Dudda

Mbob wrote: »

Thanks this is very useful. I am in the planning process atm and have a large glass wall planned for Kitchen/dinning/living room. The room is 7 x 15m and I am hoping to have one side entirely glass (it looks out on the garden) roof height is 3m. So 15m long by 3m high. 2.7 for the height seems like it will be more achievable, of the 15m length I'd be happy if I could get 5m (or 5.8 as you've said above) to slide with the rest of it fixed.

can you provide a picture of the 2.7x5.8 sliding door?

Sent photo by PM as it's a clients house not mine.

15 meters is a huge amount of glass. You'd really need to have some solar protection and I'm not on about a film on the glass, I mean a good overhang or brise soleil to stop the sun over heating the room during the summer. It will be like a greenhouse and unusable with the heat if you don't. It will also cost you a crazy amount and 15 meters is a large structural span. I'd imagine you'll have a column someplace in the middle.

It's good you're at the design stage all all these issues can be worked out and costed before starting on site and it's critical you do that now. I think you and your architect need to visit a house with a wall in excess of 10 meters of glass. You may realise it's more than you need (and possibly can afford).

JonathonS

kceire wrote: »

What would the weight difference between a 3m high slider compared to a 3m high block wall?

I don't think the foundations will need to be altered in anyway.

The OP's alternative to a window is not a block wall. The foundations may have been designed to take a wall with a large window/door, but not necessarily a 3x5.5 triple glazed slider. It is worth checking.

Gumbo

JonathonS wrote: »

The OP's alternative to a window is not a block wall. The foundations may have been designed to take a wall with a large window/door, but not necessarily a 3x5.5 triple glazed slider. It is worth checking.

Yeah ok, from my experience, foundation design for this type of work will not differ but I see where your coming from.

The main difference will be the over head beam and what it bears into. If it’s a concrete pad or if it’s onto steel columns (goal post effect).

massy086

massy086 wrote: »

-snip-

Try this company

Recommendations by PM thanks

Sorry about that

Kid Congo Power

Hi folks,

Thanks for all the feedback. We are currently looking at another solution and I'd appreciate any comment/advice.

We're looking at raising the floor by 6 inches and dropping the window height by 6 inches. This will reduce the total height to 2.7m which means we will be able to get a standard fit slider and we won't have to go down the commercial route. We'll drop the ceiling by around 3 inches as well so hopefully it will look fine.

Anyone think this is a daft idea? It seems a lot more cost effective and we can afford to lose the height.

So, Q1. Senator reckon they can do the 2.7m height but only in double glazing. Would it be a mistake to go with double glazing? Do I really need triple glazing on such a huge span of glass? What are the potential downsides?

Another supplier mentioned the problem of condensation when I suggested aluminium windows. Is there any reason this should be an issue? Is condensation likely to be more of an issue on very large windows?? I should say that we are installing HRV - should that help reduce condensation?

Has anybody experience of Senator in general and Castlebar in particular? Can you PM with any details.

Thanks again.
KCP