Upstairs rads cold

galvo_clare

Hi

My house is a semi-d built in 1990. Standard Firebird boiler under the stairs. It’s not zoned.
Downstairs rads heating fine but upstairs stone cold. I’ve bled the system several times but no joy.
Could the system be low on water? How would I check that?

TIA

Wearb

When you bleed upstairs rads, are you getting water from them?
A pic of boiler area and hotpress would help if its low on water.

galvo_clare

Wearb wrote: »

When you bleed upstairs rads, are you getting water from them?
A pic of boiler area and hotpress would help if its low on water.

It's been a while since I tried bleeding but I don't remember water coming out. I get water downstairs when I bleed. I'll upload a pic or two later today.
Would there be anything in the attic? There's a cold water tank but I'm not sure there's anything heating related.

Thanks

Wearb

Sounds like low water in system and the CORRECT valve needs to be opened.

endacl

What’s the pressure in the boiler like?

galvo_clare

endacl wrote: »

What’s the pressure in the boiler like?

Couldn’t tell you. Can’t see a gauge anywhere.
There was a little valve on a pipe coming directly off the boiler and I gave it a bit of a wiggle the other week to see if there was any movement. The result was a jet of dirty water onto the ground from what I subsequently discovered was a threaded T piece with one end opened. That started to drip slightly so I jury rigged an arrangement to stop the drip until I get something more permanent sorted. It’s holding well at the moment.

jimf

galvo_clare wrote: »

Couldn’t tell you. Can’t see a gauge anywhere.
There was a little valve on a pipe coming directly off the boiler and I gave it a bit of a wiggle the other week to see if there was any movement. The result was a jet of dirty water onto the ground from what I subsequently discovered was a threaded T piece with one end opened. That started to drip slightly so I jury rigged an arrangement to stop the drip until I get something more permanent sorted. It’s holding well at the moment.

that is probably a drain valve so leave well enough alone

have a look around your hotpress one of the most common areas to find a filler valve but it could be anywhere

galvo_clare

jimf wrote: »

that is probably a drain valve so leave well enough alone

have a look around your hotpress one of the most common areas to find a filler valve but it could be anywhere

Here’s the setup in hot press.

galvo_clare

galvo_clare wrote: »

Here’s the setup in hot press.

And here’s by the boiler.

John.G

galvo_clare wrote: »

Here’s the setup in hot press.

Also, If you have access to your attic, see it you have a large tank of water and a
much smaller one which would be the feed and expansion tank for the heating system and see if there is water in it, if not push the ball cock down as it may be stuck closed (up).

Figerty

John.G wrote: »

Also, If you have access to your attic, see it you have a large tank of water and a
much smaller one which would be the feed and expansion tank for the heating system and see if there is water in it, if not push the ball cock down as it may be stuck closed (up).

After checking the expansion tank, turn off all the downstairs rads,. drive the heat up stair. you may have air in the system.
You may need to bleed of the rads, but you also may have an airlock at the boiler or tank preventing water moving upstairs. that's the most likely issue. Hot water should rise in any case without pumping.

Start with the simple stuff like turning of the downstairs, then listen for air moving upstairs.

galvo_clare

Figerty wrote: »

After checking the expansion tank, turn off all the downstairs rads,. drive the heat up stair. you may have air in the system.
You may need to bleed of the rads, but you also may have an airlock at the boiler or tank preventing water moving upstairs. that's the most likely issue. Hot water should rise in any case without pumping.

Start with the simple stuff like turning of the downstairs, then listen for air moving upstairs.

Ok. Will check for expansion tank when I’m back. Is an airlock something I could deal with myself?

galvo_clare

Think I’ve found the problem. Expansion tank completely empty. Gave the float a belt and things started moving again.
Water is flowing in and I think I heard water flowing down into the system.
I’ve bled the rads again. Lots of air upstairs (no water) and water downstairs.
I’ve just turned the heating on to see where I am.
Also read up on rebalancing the system so that’s something that might help. A little knowledge is dangerous.
I presume I’ll have to bleed the system several times before things settle down. Am I right in saying that should be done with the system cold?

Many thanks for all the help and comments today. Really appreciate it.
Burner has been on five mins and upstairs rad is responding.

galvo_clare wrote: »

Ok. Will check for expansion tank when I’m back. Is an airlock something I could deal with myself?

John.G

galvo_clare wrote: »

Think I’ve found the problem. Expansion tank completely empty. Gave the float a belt and things started moving again.
Water is flowing in and I think I heard water flowing down into the system.
I’ve bled the rads again. Lots of air upstairs (no water) and water downstairs.
I’ve just turned the heating on to see where I am.
Also read up on rebalancing the system so that’s something that might help. A little knowledge is dangerous.
I presume I’ll have to bleed the system several times before things settle down. Am I right in saying that should be done with the system cold?

Many thanks for all the help and comments today. Really appreciate it.
Burner has been on five mins and upstairs rad is responding.

That was a good sign!, it means the system is tight and not leaking a drop.

Generally, when I test for air I open the rad vents with the boiler off but it should be OK if the boiler/circ pump is running as well. I have a attic conversion with one rad which is only about 12 ins below the water level in the F&E tank and it actually runs with a very slight negative head so it draws air in if I open the vent with the circ pump on, but no problem in venting it with circ pump off and i do get tiny amounts of air out of it every six months or so.

If all your rads feel hot then I wouldn't bother balancing/re balancing them.

jimf

galvo_clare wrote: »

Think I’ve found the problem. Expansion tank completely empty. Gave the float a belt and things started moving again.
Water is flowing in and I think I heard water flowing down into the system.
I’ve bled the rads again. Lots of air upstairs (no water) and water downstairs.
I’ve just turned the heating on to see where I am.
Also read up on rebalancing the system so that’s something that might help. A little knowledge is dangerous.
I presume I’ll have to bleed the system several times before things settle down. Am I right in saying that should be done with the system cold?

Many thanks for all the help and comments today. Really appreciate it.
Burner has been on five mins and upstairs rad is responding.

great that you are up and running


might be no harm to tie up the ballcock in the tank and check the water level over 24/48 hours to see if your water level is dropping

galvo_clare

jimf wrote: »

great that you are up and running


might be no harm to tie up the ballcock in the tank and check the water level over 24/48 hours to see if your water level is dropping

Good idea. Will let things settle for a while and check that.

Thanks

agusta

galvo_clare wrote: »

Couldn’t tell you. Can’t see a gauge anywhere.
There was a little valve on a pipe coming directly off the boiler and I gave it a bit of a wiggle the other week to see if there was any movement. The result was a jet of dirty water onto the ground from what I subsequently discovered was a threaded T piece with one end opened. That started to drip slightly so I jury rigged an arrangement to stop the drip until I get something more permanent sorted. It’s holding well at the moment.

Can you post a picture of this valve?,it may be the pressure relief valve

galvo_clare

This Is it. It was 1am and I was flying out later that morning. I cable tied a swimming cap to it to stop the drips. It’s not pretty but it held.

agusta wrote: »

Can you post a picture of this valve?,it may be the pressure relief valve

agusta

Its a pressure relief safety valve.The outlet of this valve cannot be blocked.Ideally it should be plumbed to outside. You will have to get a new 3 bar pressure relief valve fitted

galvo_clare

Thanks for that. Is that normal for it not to be ducted? What happens if it needs to relieve pressure - dirty water everywhere?

quote="agusta;108478830"]Its a pressure relief safety valve.The outlet of this valve cannot be blocked.Ideally it should be plumbed to outside. You will have to get a new 3 bar pressure relief valve fitted[/quote]

agusta

it should really be plumbed to outside in 1/2 inch copper