Hollow-sounding tiles

regedit

We purchased this lovely concerete new build house in Naas 2.5 years ago and, as part of the deal, paid the builder 7000 euro to tile all downstairs with Porcelanosa Oxford Anthracita. The houses have underfloor heating downstairs. They used their own tiler so this was a supply and fit deal.
Some 6-12 months after we moved in, we started noticing hollow sounding tiles. First in one room, then in another. On 2 separate occasions, the builder replaced some 25 tiles but there's more and more that are hollow which seems to indicate debonding problems due to lack of adhesion!
I spoke to the developer and they put me in touch with the builder. i requested that they redo the entire downstairs but they are not willing to do so. instead, they are willing to replace the faulty ones only. The developer told me that there's 7 years guarantee on that workmanship...
What do you suggest? Should I talk to our solicitor but before that get an expert to do up a report.
any thoughts?

the_pen_turner

sounds like somone turned on the underfloor heating too quick

Rows Grower

the_pen_turner wrote: »

sounds like somone turned on the underfloor heating too quick

Shouldn't really be the issue if the correct adhesive and grout were used and the tiles were laid properly.

If the builder took responsibility for the workmanship he surely allowed enough time from when the tiler finished to handing over the keys to slowly increase the temperature of the underfloor heating.

It could be the problem is the tiles were not laid using a solid bed of the correct flexible adhesive. It's easy to check on any tiles that are lifted to be replaced if they were laid solid or if they were laid using a notched trowel.

The correct flexible grout should also have been used and if there was any scrimping on insulation under the concrete slab and up around the outside edges of the concrete floor where the tiles are going to be exposed to extreme temperature variations that will also eventually effect the integrity of the tiling job.

tabby aspreme

Are the tiles laid directly onto the screed or was a backer board used

regedit

Rows Grower wrote: »

Shouldn't really be the issue if the correct adhesive and grout were used and the tiles were laid properly.

If the builder took responsibility for the workmanship he surely allowed enough time from when the tiler finished to handing over the keys to slowly increase the temperature of the underfloor heating.

It could be the problem is the tiles were not laid using a solid bed of the correct flexible adhesive. It's easy to check on any tiles that are lifted to be replaced if they were laid solid or if they were laid using a notched trowel.

The correct flexible grout should also have been used and if there was any scrimping on insulation under the concrete slab and up around the outside edges of the concrete floor where the tiles are going to be exposed to extreme temperature variations that will also eventually effect the integrity of the tiling job.

we received the keys some 3 weeks after tiling was complete so you are correct Rows Grower, we assumed proper workmanship was used. To me, it seems the tiler didn't use proper technique but only used dabbing of adhesive.
Point is, what to do now!?

regedit

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Are the tiles laid directly onto the screed or was a backer board used

not sure. wasn't around when tiles were ;aid or when some weer replaced but, I'll be here when they do the next replacement so can see for myself.

the_pen_turner

How do you know the tiles were dabbed if you didn't see them being fitted

Is it a concrete floor or a pumped in floor


When ye moved in how long did you wait before turning on under floor heating

Rows Grower

regedit wrote: »

we received the keys some 3 weeks after tiling was complete so you are correct Rows Grower, we assumed proper workmanship was used. To me, it seems the tiler didn't use proper technique but only used dabbing of adhesive.
Point is, what to do now!?

If the tiles were laid using a dabbing of adhesive then they will all have to be taken up and the area re-tiled properly.

regedit

the_pen_turner wrote: »

How do you know the tiles were dabbed if you didn't see them being fitted

Is it a concrete floor or a pumped in floor


When ye moved in how long did you wait before turning on under floor heating

I don't actually know but I am guessing.
The reason I am speculating is because none of the replaced tiles have moved since! Not sure what the difference is but we have underfloor heating so I would suspect it is a pumped in floor.
Before we even moved in, the builders had the heating on so, we didn't switch on the heating but I am sure over 3 weeks passed from the tiles being laid until us moving in...
The fact that they are replacing the tiles now fir the third time means they are aware and acknowledging the problem!

regedit

Rows Grower wrote: »

If the tiles were laid using a dabbing of adhesive then they will all have to be taken up and the area re-tiled properly.

I agree.
Is there any way one could get an expert to come in and look at the tiling situation independently so I can go to the developed with that report and tell them what the problem is. Would it be an architect or a structural engineer who could do some 'forensic work'

Rows Grower

regedit wrote: »

I agree.
Is there any way one could get an expert to come in and look at the tiling situation independently so I can go to the developed with that report and tell them what the problem is. Would it be an architect or a structural engineer who could do some 'forensic work'

A tiling expert, an underfloor heating expert or a structural engineer should all be able to confirm if the job is either done properly or not.

Maybe talk to the developer first and tell him/her you are considering getting an independent report done and if it finds the work is faulty they will be liable for the cost of the report and any other associated expenses.

I'd imagine you and your family will have to book into a hotel while the work is being completed. He/she could be looking at a hefty bill if not willing to negotiate a reasonable compromise.

regedit

Rows Grower wrote: »

A tiling expert, an underfloor heating expert or a structural engineer should all be able to confirm if the job is either done properly or not.

Maybe talk to the developer first and tell him/her you are considering getting an independent report done and if it finds the work is faulty they will be liable for the cost of the report and any other associated expenses.

I'd imagine you and your family will have to book into a hotel while the work is being completed. He/she could be looking at a hefty bill if not willing to negotiate a reasonable compromise.

Thanks Rows Grower.
I'll ask the developer will they agree to that. I'd be happy to pay that service myself. The builder said the boss wouldn't OK the whole place retiled but I'll see what they say again and even get our solicitor involved.

Rows Grower

regedit wrote: »

Thanks Rows Grower.
I'll ask the developer will they agree to that. I'd be happy to pay that service myself. The builder said the boss wouldn't OK the whole place retiled but I'll see what they say again and even get our solicitor involved.

Delighted to be able to help even in some small way regedit, it's a very stressful situation to be in.

Your builder doesn't sound like the worst type to be honest and I hope ye get everything resolved amicably.

It sounds like a fantastic house and I hope ye have many happy years there.

Maybe the tile adhesive wasn't flexible, when I tiled my house, I specified to the tile salesman that it was to go on a floor with UFH and he recommended this "flexible" adhesive.
I have had no issues with hollow sounding tiles, except where the tiles go over a join in the screed.