Radiator design

ZENER

What characteristics of a radiator determine it’s BTU output ?

Ken

Wearb

Material and surface area.
And of course size.

ZENER

What is the relevance of the different Delta numbers used by makers when giving the BTU of a particular radiator ? For example 3500 btu at Delta30 ? Delta is indicated as a triangle and not the word.

There are rads for sale that seem to have very high claimed BTU for their size when compared to rads from other makers that are bigger.

What’s the catch ?

Thanks

Ken

Wearb

Radiators of seemingly similar size and materials would have their output increased by the addition of fins to increase surface area.

The delta T refers to the temperature of the water flowing through them. Eg, old gas or oil boilers would be much hotter than modern condenser boilers. Heat pumps would run even cooler.

MrMusician18

Wearb wrote: »

Radiators of seemingly similar size and materials would have their output increased by the addition of fins to increase surface area.

The delta T refers to the temperature of the water flowing through them. Eg, old gas or oil boilers would be much hotter than modern condenser boilers. Heat pumps would run even cooler.

Delta usually refers to a difference in temperature so the delta T would refer to the difference between the input and output pipes

Wearb

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Delta usually refers to a difference in temperature so the delta T would refer to the difference between the input and output pipes

Yes. I know exactly what it is. I was explaining in easy to understand language.

ZENER

So we’ve seen these rads below and plan putting 1 at each end of a sitting room which requires about 6,300 BTU.

https://www.bestheating.ie/milano-capri-anthracite-vertical-flat-panel-designer-radiator-1780mm-x-354mm-ie.html

So on paper these seem suitable but if I look in a local plumber suppliers they are showing me rads way bigger than these. Am I missing something?

Thanks

Ken

Wearb

ZENER wrote: »

So we’ve seen these rads below and plan putting 1 at each end of a sitting room which requires about 6,300 BTU.

https://www.bestheating.ie/milano-capri-anthracite-vertical-flat-panel-designer-radiator-1780mm-x-354mm-ie.html

So on paper these seem suitable but if I look in a local plumber suppliers they are showing me rads way bigger than these. Am I missing something?

Thanks

Ken

What's your heat source?

wing52

Wearb wrote: »

What's your heat source?

Watch out for the finish, chrome restricts the output by nearly 20% !!

Sorry wearb i didn't mean to quote you.

ZENER

Oil boiler. Not sure of the make but it’s over 20 years old ? Big green box with a red blower at the front.

We also have a 22KW stove on the system if that makes any difference.

Thanks

Ken

ZENER

Oil boiler. Not sure of the make but it’s over 20 years old ? Big green box with a red blower at the front.

We also have a 22KW stove on the system if that makes any difference.

Looks like this :
https://goo.gl/images/m7KiBM


Thanks

Ken

ZENER

https://goo.gl/images/m7KiBM

Looks like this.

Ken

Wearb

ZENER wrote: »

Oil boiler. Not sure of the make but it’s over 20 years old ? Big green box with a red blower at the front.

We also have a 22KW stove on the system if that makes any difference.

Thanks

Ken

You would need almost three of the rads that you linked to to get your 6300 BTU. Also consider that you will most likely be changing you oil boiler in the next 5/10 years and newer one will run at a lower temperature.

I would calculate using the delta 50 on that website and use a conversion factor of 0.629 (giving a Delta t of 35C)to future proof. Put TRV's on them also.

ZENER

So I shouldn’t trust the stated BTU then ?

Thanks a mill for the info, thought they were a bit small for the given output !!

Cheers

Ken

Latro

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Delta usually refers to a difference in temperature so the delta T would refer to the difference between the input and output pipes

Delta T 30 in this case is most likely difference between the radiator surface and air temperature surrounding the rad.


30 degrees difference in input and output pipes would be way to high. Normal value between the two should be few degrees.

Wearb

ZENER wrote: »

So I shouldn’t trust the stated BTU then ?

Thanks a mill for the info, thought they were a bit small for the given output !!

Cheers

Ken

I would trust them, but you need to be able to understand them.
The figures I used were gotten from the link you provided.
Where did you get the idea that 2 of those would give you 6300 btu? Have you misread something that I can help you understand?

ZENER

Sorry, the rad I linked to is a slightly smaller version of the one we were looking at. This is the actual one:

https://www.bestheating.ie/milano-alpha-anthracite-vertical-single-slim-panel-designer-radiator-1600mm-x-420mm-ie.html

The description says 3,325 BTU (974 Watts). So 2 should give the required output ?

The room is long so we were told we could divide the output required between 2 rads, would this be right ?

Thanks

Ken

Wearb

ZENER wrote: »

Sorry, the rad I linked to is a slightly smaller version of the one we were looking at. This is the actual one:

https://www.bestheating.ie/milano-alpha-anthracite-vertical-single-slim-panel-designer-radiator-1600mm-x-420mm-ie.html

The description says 3,325 BTU (974 Watts). So 2 should give the required output ?

The room is long so we were told we could divide the output required between 2 rads, would this be right ?

Thanks

Ken

Read further down the additional information tab and pick out delta t 50 ( which wont future proof you) and you will see the shortcomings.

metricspaces

Type 33 radiators or column radiators might be worth a look also. See how they compare with your one giving out only 2412 BTU @ T50.

People seem less familiar with Type 33 or these high output column rads. But there's definitely lots of options if you look into it, or look across the pond in the UK.

https://www.bestheating.ie/milano-capri-anthracite-vertical-flat-panel-designer-radiator-1780mm-x-354mm-ie.html 1780mm-x-354mm @ T50 = 2412 BTU

Type 33 Radiators

https://www.quinn-radiators.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/sensa_en.pdf Quinn Sensa Type 33 1800 x 400 @ T50 = 3757 BTU

Column Radiators

Column radiators are also a good option as you can go deep with more columns. You can select from two up to six columns.

https://www.dqheating.com/column-radiator-collection/peta.html 6 column radiator 592mm x 386mm @ T50 = 3276 BTU

https://www.designerradiatorsdirect.co.uk/supplies-4-heat-cornel-vertical 3 columns 1800 x 392 @ T50 = 4920 BTU

https://www.traderadiators.com/acatalog/3-column-radiator-1800x460.html#SID=1348 1800mm x 465mm @ T50 = 7087 BTU

https://www.designerradiatorsdirect.co.uk/reina-colona-vertical 3 columns 1800 x 380 @ T50 = 7184 BTU

Some other links that may be useful:

• http://www.heatmerchants.ie/v4/581ae913-e1fb-435e-a88b-ded312da5b38/uploads/ATOL%20-%20technical%20brochure.pdf
• https://hotinteriors.co.uk/collections/high-btu-output-designer-radiator-9-000-btu-and-above/products/florence-new-vertical-white?variant=49202108244
• https://www.onlyradiators.co.uk/butler-and-rose-2-c188-pv

ZENER

Again thanks for all the info. The radiator I linked to says it’s out put is over 3300 BTU, where are they getting that number from do you think ? Clearly these are bogus number yeah ?

Thanks

Ken

antoinolachtnai

There is nothing wrong with the number. If they say that is what it can output, then that is probably what it can output.

But this is at delta T50. But delta T50 may not be realistic. If the delta T in your house and heating system is less, then you will get less output. This is the point people are making.

But one radiator which is 2400 BTU at delta T50 should have roughly the same output as a different radiator from a different manufacturer, made of different materials to a different design, if the output of that other radiator is also 2400 BTU at delta T50.

You can future proof by getting bigger radiators. But you could also make provision to install an additional radiator if one is needed in the future.

ZENER

So I need two radiators for a room that requires 6500 BTU to heat. The current boiler is a Firebird Popular 90 oil boiler but there may be a chance we will get gas in the next few years so a new gas boiler will probably be replacing the existing oil boiler.

With that in mind would these radiators give us enough future-proofing ?

https://www.designerradiatorsdirect.co.uk/dq-cove-vertical

Choosing the 1800 x 295 Double model or would the 413 wide model be better ?

Thanks again.

Ken

antoinolachtnai

Two of the 1800x413 won't even give you 6500 BTU at delta T 50. There's no future proofing in that.

ZENER

They are rated as 3310 BTU at delta t50 ? So 2 would give 6620 BTU ? Or am I missing something else ?

Ken

metricspaces

ZENER wrote: »

They are rated as 3310 BTU at delta t50 ? So 2 would give 6620 BTU ? Or am I missing something else ?

If you look at the "Additional Information" tab on page you linked to you'll see they are rated at 2,412 BTU @ T50.

ZENER wrote: »

So I need two radiators for a room that requires 6500 BTU to heat.

You would need three of the radiators you linked to.

If you look at the links I sent you, you'll see plenty of options to get the BTU you want with two, or even one!, radiator.

antoinolachtnai

ZENER wrote: »

They are rated as 3310 BTU at delta t50 ? So 2 would give 6620 BTU ? Or am I missing something else ?

Ken

Sorry I wasn’t looking at the double.

For the bit extra I would get the larger size.

It is worth it to be sure.