Cities around the world that are reducing car access

Citizen Six

People looking to take Capel St. backwards again. https://dublininquirer.com/2022/09/14/capel-street-s-car-free-status-is-up-for-debate-again

Citizen Six

Here's a recent episode of the podcast 99% Invisible. https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/first-errand/

Looks at how the Japanese design for people first, and not cars. They think it's ludicrous that private property such as cars, can be stored on public streets.

p_haugh

Another Deansgrange Cycle Route scheme consultation is live, with the updated design going via the cemetery.

https://dlrcoco.citizenspace.com/transportation/active-travel-improvements-deansgrange-cycle-route/

Interesting to note, it shows an indicative junction design for the DLR Connector scheme tie-in, and DLR yet again are putting the NTA to shame, with a much better "Dutch junction" implementation!

Seth Brundle

...

wiessrachel1

Any comments on the proposed changes and playground for Foster Place in Dublin? #walk21

CatInABox

Hard to know what to put there, probably needs a popular outdoor restaurant to liven the place up properly.

Seth Brundle

Meanwhile in Calgary...

https://twitter.com/chrisdoyle78/status/1571970917869449216?t=SSm4ipn-ozc5KAs29LwKQg&s=19

magicbastarder

i don't know if it's a supplement or not but apparently today's irish times has a special report on sustainable transport.

loyatemu

presumably related to European Car Free Day, which believe it or not, is today.

Citizen Six

Pity the weather is so bad though.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649574#Comment_119649574

I had a flick through it, to my total non-surprise about three quarters of it is dedicated to EVs.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119650100#Comment_119650100

Don't people complain that the Irish Times gets a lot of advertising money from the car industry?

magicbastarder

https://www.thejournal.ie/behavioural-change-needed-in-irish-transport-oecd-5884593-Oct2022/

...

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707545#Comment_119707545

The usual shite in the replies to that from people who live miles from civilization and need a car to buy milk so the government should not make any changes

Thelonious Monk

People moaning about having to drive 10km to get milk. Why the f**k do they choose to live in these places in that case? Ridiculous.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709815#Comment_119709815

I'd wager most of these people a tally do have a local link bus 3 or 4 times a day but will never use it. They want luas on their boreen operating on demand and express

It’s all very well you all moaning about the reactions of people in rural Ireland, but our dispersed housing is, at they say, what it is. And has developed like that over generations. Unless you do want to either forcibly remove these people from their homes into city apartments, or provide a regular bus service up every boreen, then, yes, any change in car use will be on a generational pace. Electric cars will help and grants for getting domestic charging points installed should never be removed. But it is an inevitability whatever the OECD and Ryan think, that we will have a large national fleet of cars, electric or otherwise.

unless, indeed, people here do want to forcibly remove rural dwellers and plonk them into cities (actually, I bet there are some here who would do that)

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710100#Comment_119710100

The vast majority of people live in urban areas and it is principally these whose behaviour they are trying to change.

The nonsense from people who made the decision to live out in the sticks should not define our national transport policy.

These people are far too quick to tell everyone that their local bus only comes once a week rather than tell us that they were left feeling unhappy with the outcome having contacted their local public representatives to encourage improved public transport services. But hey, let's blame Ryan because you won't use a bus.

As for your waffle about forcibly removing people, etc., maybe what you should be thinking is that our habit of allowing so much one-off rural housing is unsustainable and costly so our planning laws need to change! This will have the added benefit of stopping the ongoing blight of the McMansion in our countryside.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710344#Comment_119710344

The planning laws have already changed, haven’t they? Like I said, it is now what it is. Maybe I’m wrong re. planning, and I agree with you that new one off housing should no longer be facilitated. But for those that already live in such environments, cars will continue to be where it’s at. There’s no point even having the discussion, other than continuing to build out electric car infrastructure and incentivising their use. Cities are different and a combination of charges, tolls and public transport will hopefully drive that transition.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710429#Comment_119710429

Electric cars aren't the be all and end all. In addition, surely those living In rural houses would would the option to not have to use the car and it's costs. Is it too much to think that children should be able to cycle to school (or GAA or whatever) safely, even in rural areas?

Maybe you want to drive everywhere but that doesn't mean everyone does!

Transport policy needs to change from one where we prioritise a dependence on an expensive but depreciating asset in order to get by.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710822#Comment_119710822

The biggest thing IMO that councils could do to encourage cycling in rural areas is reduce speed limits dramatically and put a decent sized shoulder on all rural national and regional roads. The national road through my neighbourhood is 100kph, and has hedges right up to the roadside. It’s actually insane.

i don’t want to drive everywhere. I’d love to cycle….and I’m out with the club at weekends. I cycle everywhere in Dublin and I cycled 20km each way to work when I lived in London. But it’s just too dangerous, and drivers get so angry and impatient when there’s a cyclist on that road

there are 5 schools within 10km of me. And three GAA clubs. All cycleable if that were fixed.

Seth Brundle

I don't want to get bogged down discussing rural roads (as it is a thread about cities) but the two biggest things missing from our roads that would make a difference is that there is pretty much a complete lack of enforcement (coupled with a largely disinterested police force) and that the knowledge of the rules of the road amongst drivers appears to be quite questionable (with an incorrect belief that the roads are for their sole use). Too many drivers are unaware of what Primary Position is, they don't understand the rules on cycle lanes, don't know how to overtake a vulnerable road user safely, etc.

Change both of those and you will dramatically improve the safety for vulnerable road users.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710429#Comment_119710429

have planning laws changed? any time I've driven around Ireland in recent years they still seem to be building one offs all over the place.

On the one hand rural people have the nerve to moan about public transport while choosing to live in the middle of nowhere, and on the other hand they foam at the mouth with their hatred of Eamon Ryan and the Greens, the very people who would invest more in public transport and less in car infrastructure and stop this silly dispersed living if they could. The TDs that are voted in never have any interest in public transport, bypasses and motorways are the ticket.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/majority-of-spend-in-dublin-and-cork-cities-generated-from-people-using-sustainable-modes-of-transport/

More proof that you don't need car access for commerce

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712314#Comment_119712314

"But how do I get a fridge home from Grafton St. on the bus?" 😂

bb1234567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712314#Comment_119712314

It seems not to matter or give much weight to arguments during discussions on pedestrianisation in wider society. I really think that the argument about 'reduced business footfall from cars' from the screeching hysterical negative nellies will continue to be trotted no matter how big the mountain of proof to the contrary becomes

cgcsb

Freezing cold Oslo is now effectively car free, cars are allowed in but there's no through roads and no parking.

Footfall and consumer spending up 10% (it was already heavily pedestrianised). Reported road accidents down to 0, no injuries or fatalities.

Other Norwegian cities will be following suit. Every town has extensive public transport and new cars are mostly electric (and largely confined to rural areas.

Thelonious Monk

https://twitter.com/citybloomington/status/1579886286902816770

Drunk driver mounts a pavement and kills a man on a scooter so they ban scooters from the city during certain hours. I wonder if they'd ban pedestrians if it was a pedestrian killed by a drunk driver on a pavement?

Shows how f**ked up our relationship with cars in cities is.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733909#Comment_119733909

Imagine if they had decided to ban car usage at those times. There would be uproar.

Seth Brundle

good way to make a point...

https://twitter.com/TellyElk/status/1579862890772942849?s=20&t=wYLZ8F5wBv8u8wRL4LxZXw

Thargor

Not exactly what you'd call a global city but Limerick is such a joke, Id say worse than Galway tbh. Its just crammed with cars piled up on cars at all hours of the day, kilometer long tailbacks from every exit of every roundabout (and there are a lot of roundabouts). Just gridlock everywhere all the time then completely unbearable at school/rush hour (rush hour seems to be 16:00 to 18:30 every day), the amount of wasted fuel/air quality must be obscene. It takes me 15 minutes to cycle to work, its 30-40 minutes for coworkers from the same area to drive but they still express surprise that I cycle. Really piss-poor attitude from everybody aswell, a university city and flat as anything in Europe and I work with a load of 20-something year olds who just graduated but none of them even own a bike, nearest shop is a 15 minute walk from our factory but they'll hop in their financed BMWs and do it in 20-30 minutes instead, its just bizarre. One of the biggest shopping centers down this side of the country with a carpark the size of an airport crammed at all hours of the day with a thousand cars and maybe 3 bikes to be seen locked up in the whole place. Im supposed to be buying a house here but its genuinely putting me off tbh.

Viscount Aggro

Rural roads where speeding is a problem... Easy to fix .. put in a load of speed ramps

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710921#Comment_119710921

they don't understand the rules on cycle lanes

Problem is that there are virtually no cycle lanes in rural Ireland. The least densely populated country west of the Baltic sea, but land is too expensive to be able to afford cycle lanes.

Yet in the Netherlands there were cycle lanes everywhere I travelled. The same in Flanders. I have cycled from Lille to Amsterdam, and once I hit the Belgian border it was cycle lanes all the way.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746394#Comment_119746394

Land costs don't prevent the building of cycle lanes. Policy does, the state or city owns the roadway generally

magicbastarder

https://m.independent.ie/news/environment/nobody-told-us-an-bord-pleanala-says-it-didnt-know-about-climate-plan-when-giving-green-light-to-600m-galway-ring-road-42067122.html

mudderagod.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746722#Comment_119746722

Most rural roads aren't wide enough, so you would need to take a slice of peoples land. Or if you want a separate cycle lane, through land, you'll need to buy that.

Look at the hassle they have already, getting agreement from farmers, for greenways in the country.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748967#Comment_119748967

There aren't cycle lanes on rural roads though. We're a long way off that, the capital city barely has about 10km of usable cycle lane.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.thejournal.ie/new-ambitious-transport-projects-will-be-delivered-at-speed-within-the-next-three-years-5895239-Oct2022

Looks like pedestrianisation of town centres is going to become more common. On a side note, I can't seem to read anything online about this kind of thin without that ASSHOLE Gary Kearney making some kind of snide comments beneath it. Does he ever stop ffs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756338#Comment_119756338

ha…..what’s pedestrianising college green got to do with overwhelmed hospitals!?

Grassey

Probably the same sort of logic as this comment I saw earlier on FB.

"Galway badly need to sort something out about the traffic In the city its going to get worse when people walking or cycling pass long stretch of traffic due to illness due to cars fumes..."

Don't walk/cycle it's bad for your health and you'll overwhelm hospitals because of the poor cars forced to idle and crawl along.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748967#Comment_119748967

The thing is in much of the netherlands, country roads are built to a plan in relatively recent times. Here in ireland, the majority of Regional and Local roads, and some National Roads (secondary mostly, less so the primary), are legacy roads are merely an evolution of the dirt paths trodden by our ancestors over the centuries. A lot of them date back to the Enclosure Acts

To put in cycle lanes, you would have to knock ditches, rebuild entrances further back, widen bridges, re-do the drainage. And in the places where an old farm house or cottage abuts the roadway, what do you do there? Leave a gap? CPO the house and put someone out of their home and make them move?

And in the end no-one would use them and they would be just full of **** and debris and would be just a glorified hard shoulder. Daft idea.

For the person who said there is a national road with hedges built right up to the roadside - no. it was not built as a national road with ditches built right against it. It was most likely a legacy non-engineered road, centuries old, that over time evolved to be a major route and is now designated a national road.

The people saying "oh just put in cycle lanes and wide shoulders", massively, MASSIVELY, underestimate the scale and cost of what they are asking. Land punchase, negotiation, accomadation works, planning, bridges, drainage, utilities - they would all need attention and none of them are cheap or easy.

loyatemu

it's something worth considering on busy R roads, but on most rural roads it's not practical or necessary. Lower speed limits combined with some traffic calming to enforce said limits and discourage non-local use and ratrunning would do a lot to make them safer for cyclists without the need for heavy engineering and CPOs. It's absurd that tiny L roads have an 80 limit by default.

Seth Brundle

Interesting podcast on illegal bus lane usage...

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-the-hard-shoulder/calls-for-more-enforcement-on-bus-lane-misuse

magicbastarder

https://twitter.com/Aidan_Regan/status/1582271727425687552

there's at least one person (validly) commenting that the infographic doesn't state how many (or what percentage of) students drive in. that could be 29% of a small number, in theory.

Grassey

From skimming the travel plan booklet originally produced in 2017.

There are about 3000 parking spaces on campus & modal share for car transport in 2017 was 45% staff and 20% student.

So back of a napkin figures..

That's 25% of( 45% of 4000 staff) ... so about 450 staff live within 6km and drive... & 1350 > 6km

Students looks to be 29% of ((20% of 30k) ... So about 1740 students within 6km and drive?

So that totals to:

1800 staff drive

6000 students drive

Not sure how that squares with the available parking space though 🤣 🤣

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119760444#Comment_119760444

Gardai out this morning during rush hour in Clontarf. Pulling over cars in the bus lane approaching Alfie Byrne Road junction.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764177#Comment_119764177

Not that it matters as the people who get caught today know that it will be a long time if ever that the guards will actually be policing it again so they will likely never get caught again.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764306#Comment_119764306

It's better than nothing though. Badly need camera enforcement in Dublin.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764334#Comment_119764334

It has no long term effect so if it is better than nothing it isn't much better. I live in the city centre and see so much illegal parking. Every once in a blue moon, the cars get clamped. The following day the same cars will still park in the same place they always did. They know fine well that they won't get clamped/fined for another 6+ months. Getting clamped and fined once every 6 months is cheaper and more convenient than finding an actual parking spot every day so they will do it every day.

it is the same with this. Yeah, those drivers got caught and might get a fine, they might avoid the bus lane tomorrow as a precaution but in a few days they will be back in it because they know they won't get caught again. Isn't the penalty just a small fine and no penalty points. If so, who cares? That small fine once in a blue moon is worth it for all the time it saves them over a year.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764640#Comment_119764640

A simple solution then is points for driving in the Bus Lane.