Almond Nuts

Winty

Hey Everyone 
Can a vegan eat Almond nuts due to the [font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]huge suffering and exploitation of bees in the production process?[/font]
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is not a dig. I am a true fan of Veganism and hope more people will embrace it. [/font]

davidjtaylor

Very interesting question and the answer is 'it depends'.

The huge (ten times the next producer country in terms of tonnage) quantity of almonds grown in California is only viable with correspondingly huge inputs of technology, water resources, -cides and, of course, fossil fuel. I was once told that even the organic growers have to pasteurise their output along with everyone else.

They ship in humungous quantities of bees from all over America for pollination. Therefore, it follows that almonds are not vegan in the strict sense of exploitation/non-exploitation of creatures.

So it may be the case that you should buy organically-grown almonds/essence/extract from some of the European, Mediterranean or near-east countries; these are less likely to be 'deliberately' pollinated - thus these can be regarded as vegan - and of course have a lower environmental footprint. Talk to your supplier.

As with soy products, some organically-produced almond nectars may have the country of origin printed on the carton (Provamel uses 'European'-sourced); otherwise, contact the manufacturer.

Tar.Aldarion

~80% of the almonds grown for the world are from california, any such intensive farming including bees is going to be hard going but people should realise there are plenty of foods like that, not just almonds. Broccoli, cherries, avocados, lettuce, the list goes on. Saw an article in the metro about it recently https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/18/eating-avocados-doesnt-mean-youre-failing-at-being-vegan-this-is-just-another-way-to-try-to-catch-us-out-8049510/?ito=article.desktop.share.top.facebook&fbclid=IwAR1nskbPFqR-dE_po5ypXNB81tU0oy9_nrUsYhHQdkWNcS0jrQbJZCSxVL4

Here is the vegan societies stance on it:

We are aware that many forms of farming involve indirect harm to animals but it is unfortunately not possible or practicable to avoid the destruction of other animals in most farming at this time.
However, we do not consider that just because it is not possible to avoid one hundred percent of the cruelty, suffering and exploitation to animals that we should not bother at all.
Vegans make a huge contribution to the reduction in suffering and death caused to animals and we would welcome any changes made to farming practises that support this."
~ Dominika Piasecka The Vegan Society spokesperson

Their point is good, you do what you can to reduce your harm, over time as things change things will get better for animals, so just use your judgment and do what you think is best.

davidjtaylor

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

~80% of the almonds grown for the world are from california, any such intensive farming including bees is going to be hard going but people should realise there are plenty of foods like that, not just almonds. Broccoli, cherries, avocados, lettuce, the list goes on. Saw an article in the metro about it recently https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/18/eating-avocados-doesnt-mean-youre-failing-at-being-vegan-this-is-just-another-way-to-try-to-catch-us-out-8049510/?ito=article.desktop.share.top.facebook&fbclid=IwAR1nskbPFqR-dE_po5ypXNB81tU0oy9_nrUsYhHQdkWNcS0jrQbJZCSxVL4

Yes. This also reinforces the imperative to find out where your money's going.

Winty

Their point is good, you do what you can to reduce your harm, over time as things change things will get better for animals, so just use your judgment and do what you think is best.

Can the same be said for meat production? 
If a small farmer in rural Ireland is producing animals in a happy environment and then butchering them to high welfare standards surely its the same as the Almond farmers who transport Bees from all across the USA

Tar.Aldarion

You don't need to kill the cow and you don't need almonds. However bee pollination is far more important to humanity surviving as a species than animal products. We can strive to get away from both needs at the same time. That's without getting into the ethics of purposefully raising a feeling, sentient being to be killed.

Winty

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

You don't need to kill the cow and you don't need almonds. However bee pollination is far more important to humanity surviving as a species than animal products. We can strive to get away from both needs at the same time. That's without getting into the ethics of purposefully raising a feeling, sentient being to be killed.

Great comments Tar, interesting point of view

davidjtaylor

Here's an interesting article about tree nut growers in California. Sure, it a three-years-old article but.

They use 80 percent of the state's water to generate about 2 percent of its economic output.

Also, almond growers this year are getting social welfare payments. Source

Markcheese

Em, how far down that line does one want to go with this argument. most fruit crops are produced with bees, commercial hives, and a lot of hot house crops are actually produced with captive bumble bee populations, often fed sugar syrup and pollen as the flowers that they're pollinating are not bred to have either..
All bean and pea crops (pulses) are also dependant on bee pollination...
I'd never thought about this till about 10 mins ago

davidjtaylor

True enough Markcheese but I'd love to know the methods other countries than the US use for growing their almonds.

The US has a history of heavily subsidising crops, putting traditional producers out of business by artificially depressing world prices. Cotton is a prime example and almonds could be another one. We benefit in some ways of course but it means we're often shielded from the true cost of products. It's one reason why CAP in its current form should be thrown out.

On top of that there's the issue of getting rid of glyphosate...

According to the study, not only does glyphosate, a chemical found in its popular Roundup weedkiller, damage the enzymes in the bee’s gut that protects them from pathogens, it also effectively kills the wildflowers the bees depend upon for their survival.

gozunda

Winty wrote: »

Their point is good, you do what you can to reduce your harm, over time as things change things will get better for animals, so just use your judgment and do what you think is best.

Can the same be said for meat production? 
If a small farmer in rural Ireland is producing animals in a happy environment and then butchering them to high welfare standards surely its the same as the Almond farmers who transport Bees from all across the USA

Hi interesting discussion btw

Almond and other intensive crop production in areas like California have major environmental and ecological impacts across the board affecting soil, water, animals and other organisms including bees.

I came across this interesting article which discusses some of the other major environmental impacts there

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/18/california-central-valley-sinking-arsenic-water-farming-agriculture

With regard to animal farming - what is often forgotten is the very important role which animals play in maintaining land health and soil diversity. In the US there had been a recognition of this through regenerative Agriculture - whereby animals have been recognised as being central and beneficial to agricultural production , ecological stability and land regeneration

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/07/10/animal-impact-regenerative-agriculture.aspx

davidjtaylor

davidjtaylor wrote: »

On top of that there's the issue of getting rid of glyphosate...

We found that glyphosate affects the bee gut microbiota composition and that bacterial species and strains within this community vary in susceptibility to glyphosate.

Recent experimental and observational studies have provided evidence that dysbiosis affecting the bee gut can increase susceptibility to pathogen invasion.

Our results also suggest that establishment of a normal microbial community is crucial for protection against opportunistic pathogens of honey bees.

Furthermore, our results highlight one potential mechanism by which glyphosate affects bee health.

Source

Markcheese

Honestly think that glyphosate, and its associated gm crops are one of the most serious environmental and health threats out there.. Its now in almost everyone's system as well as the water supply

davidjtaylor

davidjtaylor wrote: »

So it may be the case that you should buy organically-grown almonds/essence/extract from some of the European, Mediterranean or near-east countries; these are less likely to be 'deliberately' pollinated - thus these can be regarded as vegan - and of course have a lower environmental footprint. Talk to your supplier.

I'm pleased to say that our local retailer, Meanwell Wholefoods in Ennis, have always sold only almonds from Valencia. They are aware of the issues with USA almonds.