Sound insulation panels for party wall

Meself

Hi..

Has anyone installed sound insulation panels on a party wall or something similar ?

Just moved into terrace house and noise from neighbours tv is a bit much. It doesnt sound like they have it up high to be honest. Just usual poor insulation for a circa 2000 built house.

What did you pay for insulation and was it worth it ??

Thanks

Gumbo

Meself wrote: »

Hi..

Has anyone installed sound insulation panels on a party wall or something similar ?

Just moved into terrace house and noise from neighbours tv is a bit much. It doesnt sound like they have it up high to be honest. Just usual poor insulation for a circa 2000 built house.

What did you pay for insulation and was it worth it ??

Thanks

Party walls of that era have no insulation.
Strip back wall. Render from top to bottom.
Insulated panels. Could spend 5-10k.
May Make make only a very very small difference.

Need works on both sides to be of any benefit.

metricspaces

I just created a thread myself on the same issue https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057922852

Here is an Irish company I came across which may be of help https://www.soundinsulation.ie/57-wall-soundproofing

They recommended this product to me https://www.soundinsulation.ie/wall-soundproofing/45-tecsound-sy70.html - no mention of how many dB in reduction it will provide though.

Sam Quentin

I think that first post may have scared the BE-JAYSIZZZ out of you... Go get some Kingspan insulated plasterboard(or similar), go for 38mm finished or a bit more, they're between 35 and 60€ each? Plasterers compound (adhesive)dob and dap them to the wall with a few spring plasterboard fixings..... That should reduce the incoming audio and warm you up a bit more.....

metricspaces

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Kingspan insulated plasterboard(or similar), go for 38mm finished or a bit more

What is the dB reduction specified by these boards?

Baggly

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I think that first post may have scared the BE-JAYSIZZZ out of you... Go get some Kingspan insulated plasterboard(or similar), go for 38mm finished or a bit more, they're between 35 and 60€ each? Plasterers compound (adhesive)dob and dap them to the wall with a few spring plasterboard fixings..... That should reduce the incoming audio and warm you up a bit more.....

Foam boards are shocking for acoustic reduction performance. Great for thermal though!

Page 42 of this doc from ISOVER declares a 54db reduction if installed on receiver side (OPs side) only for their Calibel product.

metricspaces

Here is another product I came across that may be of interest https://www.soundstop.co.uk/soundproofing/soundproofing-walls/Sm20-wall-solution4.php . You can see the claimed dB reduction on their site.

metricspaces

Pter wrote: »

Foam boards are shocking for acoustic reduction performance. Great for thermal though!.

So Kingspan insulated plasterboard will be of no use for OP in addressing sound issue right?

Baggly

metricspaces wrote: »

So Kingspan insulated plasterboard will be of no use for OP in addressing sound issue right?

Wouldnt think so! ill go see if they declare acoustic performance. I doubt they do, as Foams (of which Kingspan are one type) typically dont do well acoustically, so the manufacturers typically dont want to draw attention to that fact!

Baggly

They have a new build solution for unlaminated boards with a mineral wool firestop up there declaring 63db, but nothing for retrofit.

Quick google search backs up foams arent the way to go;
https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-articles/foam-or-fiberglass-insulation/

Id be recommending looking at insulation and a mass approach (so a decent plasterboard dot and dabbed onto the wall).

metricspaces

What about either of these products?

• https://www.soundinsulation.ie/wall-soundproofing/45-tecsound-sy70.html - no specified dB reduction
• https://www.soundstop.co.uk/soundproofing/soundproofing-walls/Sm20-wall-solution4.php - dB reduction specified

Or are there any similar products on the market (in Ireland preferably) that can be applied directly to the wall and give a "decent" reduction in airborne noise?

As I understand, airborne noise can be addressed with these type of retrofit products, but to address impact noise requires a lot more invasive work and money.

Baggly

First one looks good for new build, but maybe not renovation on a masonry wall. The picture on that page shows a timber stud wall with mineral wool between the studs. Wouldnt be too sure how much of the heavy lifting the mineral wool, membrane and board is doing, and not sure if it would work as well on a masonry wall.

Second one - they spec 2 layers of Soundbloc - id imagine thats doing most of the lifting. They obviously dont say the performance without their panel. Im also not sure how they mean you to fix the plasterboard. If its mechanically, thats going to impact the acoustic performance. I dont know how you would dot and dab or stick 2 heavy boards onto each other if they arent saying mechanically.

The only one ive come across is that isover one i posted above. Its a dot and dab product as far as im aware....and seems to be the only product declaring a performance from an Irish website (that ive seen anyway).

Baggly

Sorry im presuming its a masonry party wall - i could be way off on that one!

metricspaces

Pter wrote: »

Sorry im presuming its a masonry party wall - i could be way off on that one!

The OP could well be masonry party wall.

For me it is new build timber frame semi-detached house (so in theory satisfies building regs for sound insulation).

I want to apply additional sound insulation on the party wall in one room only, before applying decorative wood paneling. More as a precaution. So I am looking for something that can be applied on the existing plasterboard, then hang the wood panels on top of this (which are heavy! 1000mm x 2400mm x 20mm)

Baggly

Link to the wood panels?

Baggly

And just so i understand, it would be


OTHER HOUSE | space between houses | plasterboard on timber studs | something for the acoustics | wood paneling |


for the layers?

If its new build why do you need to put something on the existing plasterboard? Why cant you install a new system?

Or do you mean its a finished but relatively new house?

Sam Quentin

metricspaces wrote: »

What is the dB reduction specified by these boards?

Google it... All the specs are on the Kingspan home page

metricspaces

Pter wrote: »

And just so i understand, it would be


OTHER HOUSE | space between houses | plasterboard on timber studs | something for the acoustics | wood paneling |


for the layers?

Yes that's correct.

Pter wrote: »

If its new build why do you need to put something on the existing plasterboard? Why cant you install a new system?
Or do you mean its a finished but relatively new house?

Yes, finished house. I am just looking at adding some additional noise insulation to a bedroom. The party wall backs on to neighbors en-suite and bathroom. So no harm adding some extra sound insulation before I put up the decorative wood wall panels.

Wood panels are from Unilin http://www.unilinpanels.com/en-gb/interior-solutions/decorative-boards/h348-lizard-oak?id=2bsjzeru11zjt#characteristics

Baggly

metricspaces wrote:

If its new build why do you need to put something on the existing plasterboard? Why cant you install a new system?

Just because it involves taking down plasterboard on your side without disturbing your neighbours plasterboard.

Just out at the moment but I'll take a look later for ya if you want!

metricspaces

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Google it... All the specs are on the Kingspan home page

For which particular product to reduce noise transfer?

You suggested "Kingspan insulated plasterboard 38mm". Google leads me to "Kooltherm K18| Insulated Plasterboard", but no mention of acoustic performance. https://www.kingspan.com/irl/en-ie/product-groups/insulation/insulation-boards/kooltherm/kooltherm-k18-insulated-plasterboard

metricspaces

Pter wrote: »

Just because it involves taking down plasterboard on your side without disturbing your neighbours plasterboard.

Sorry, I misquoted you. That was your question to me . Updated my previous post.

Pter wrote: »

Just out at the moment but I'll take a look later for ya if you want!

Thanks that would be great. Any suggestions of products I can apply directly to the plasterboard for sound reduction and then still hang my wall panels without negating the work done for sound insulation would be helpful.

Baggly

Right so if its a bathroom backing onto your bedroom, what noise is it? Vocal noise? Electric shower? This is important as different products will solve different problems. Voices would probably be a little higher in pitch, so extra layers of plasterboard will do the job. An electric shower is a lower frequency sound, so insulation (in some form) would be a good idea.

The solutions you put up before had that rubber/membrane layer on the non-dwelling side of the plasterboard. I dont know if thats important for how the product works, but id recommend asking the company that makes the product. That rubber stuff uses an adhesive (from their site) to stick to plasterboard, with another board placed over the rubber. Id really think that the board is doing most of the lifting there tbh. The membrane isnt offering much extra mass, nor is it offering any separation, so i dont understand how it (rather than the plasterboard) is providing extra acoustic performance.

TBH (and sorry this wont be much help) your situation isnt one i have seen before, so i dont know if there is a solution that will greatly help beyond adding another layer of board or trying that Calibel stuff.

Best advice is to contact the manufacturers to see what they think!

metricspaces

Pter wrote: »

Right so if its a bathroom backing onto your bedroom, what noise is it? Vocal noise? Electric shower?

I think main noises would be toilet flushing, water falling from shower which is pumped, doors closing, voices.

Pter wrote: »

The solutions you put up before had that rubber/membrane layer on the non-dwelling side of the plasterboard. I dont know if thats important for how the product works, but id recommend asking the company that makes the product. That rubber stuff uses an adhesive (from their site) to stick to plasterboard, with another board placed over the rubber. Id really think that the board is doing most of the lifting there tbh. The membrane isnt offering much extra mass, nor is it offering any separation, so i dont understand how it (rather than the plasterboard) is providing extra acoustic performance.
!

I have asked the company so let's see. I was thinking that something with depth of 3.5mm would not provide much noise insulation https://www.soundinsulation.ie/wall-soundproofing/45-tecsound-sy70.html

Pter wrote: »

TBH (and sorry this wont be much help) your situation isnt one i have seen before, so i dont know if there is a solution that will greatly help beyond adding another layer of board or trying that Calibel stuff.
Best advice is to contact the manufacturers to see what they think!

Thanks. I'll take a look at the Calibel. It is this product here you are thinking https://www.isover.ie/products/isover-calibel-board-g3-wmk-0034 ? I don't see any noise insulation figures, have you seen any in other documentation?

Baggly

metricspaces wrote: »

Thanks. I'll take a look at the Calibel. It is this product here you are thinking https://www.isover.ie/products/isover-calibel-board-g3-wmk-0034 ? I don't see any noise insulation figures, have you seen any in other documentation?

Yeah thats the one. Weird. They have another acoustic doc that does have figures...but it doesnt show for the products mentioned.

https://www.isover.ie/sites/isover.ie/files/assets/documents/isover_acoustic_guide_2017_lr.pdf

Thats their acoustic guide. Not sure if its relevant to your situation, but worth asking i think!

metricspaces

I got some info back from the manufacturer of Calibel. For one board they say "54RwdB reduction to the receiver side.". Sounds good?

imp1

Worth pointing out that most of the 54dB reduction comes from the block on the flat, just in case you were expecting an 'extra' 54dB performance on what you have at the moment. There are heavyweight boards available that are made up of 25mm crumbed rubber, for vibration isolation, but also add a fair bit due to their mass, bonded to a 12.5mm gyproc board. Supplied in 1/4 sheet size due to the weight.
If it is a new build, you should have acoustic test results, iaw Part E, not necessarily for your house, depending on number of houses in development, but representative of your house.

metricspaces

imp1 wrote: »

Worth pointing out that most of the 54dB reduction comes from the block on the flat, just in case you were expecting an 'extra' 54dB performance on what you have at the moment.

Oh. Yes I read that as the board gave a 54dB reduction. Thanks for pointing this out.

Are there any products on the market that I can apply directly to my plasterboard wall that have a specified dB reduction figure for the board on its own?

Lumen

Doesn't that table suggest that the 42.5mm boards give 2dB reduction compared with 3dB from a 10mm layer of sand and cement?

Baggly

That's probably correct. The sand and cement will help plug any tiny gaps in the mortar and thus help reduce noise infiltration, as well as increasing the mass of the wall to begin with. Any gaps in the wall are going to be responsible for noise getting through. Worth pointing out that s&c will work in the short-term, but will probably crack as he building ages, meaning you are back to square one.

Baggly

Good article here actually.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/interiors/we-can-hear-our-neighbours-through-the-walls-what-can-we-do-1.3238624

imp1

metricspaces wrote: »

Oh. Yes I read that as the board gave a 54dB reduction. Thanks for pointing this out.

Are there any products on the market that I can apply directly to my plasterboard wall that have a specified dB reduction figure for the board on its own?

Most do, but that is not they way you calculate the overall performance of a complex wall structure. Timber frame you have I think, they can perform very very well, it is difficult to improve a good wall (easy to improve a bad wall), do you have the Part E test results, or do you know the construction.
1 sheet of plasterboard will generally have about 20dB reduction, 2 sheets dont give 40dB, but 23dB. If you have a good wall you might get 63 dB plus 20 dB which is still 63 dB. Adding something like a vibration isolation layer, changing the density of the materials, gives a better result.

metricspaces

imp1 wrote: »

Most do, but that is not they way you calculate the overall performance of a complex wall structure. Timber frame you have I think, they can perform very very well, it is difficult to improve a good wall (easy to improve a bad wall), do you have the Part E test results, or do you know the construction.

It is timber frame and in theory is Part E compliant, but no I don't have the results.

It is really just a precautionary measure. As I don't want to have to rip down at a later point the decorative wood paneling I am putting up. So if there is something I can stick up easily now before putting on the wood paneling then I'd like to do this.

imp1 wrote: »

1 sheet of plasterboard will generally have about 20dB reduction, 2 sheets dont give 40dB, but 23dB. If you have a good wall you might get 63 dB plus 20 dB which is still 63 dB. Adding something like a vibration isolation layer, changing the density of the materials, gives a better result.

Got you. So if my wall satisifies Part E, adding a board that gives 20dB reduction on a plain block wall may just give me an extra 3dB and not worth doing?

I heard back from soundinsulation.ie about this product https://www.soundinsulation.ie/wall-soundproofing/45-tecsound-sy70.html , what they say is:

Regarding Tecsound performance - generally what we have seen is about an 8-10dB improvement in the performance of a stud wall.

imp1

If the party wall is a standard 'block on the flat, plastered both sides 1/2'' sand and cement' it will satisfy Part E 53 dB (DnTw). Adding a gyproc sheet will do very little extra. The tecsound link shows the compound nature of the wall, with the tecsound sandwiched between 2 layers of gyproc, the variety / variation in densities along with the fairly high mass of tecsound all work well together. Adding tecsound to a standard studwall should give the 8-10 dB improvement, but don't expect that much improvement if you have a wall that is pretty good to begin with. That said, if it is only one wall and you have concerns, it is not that expensive and should give some additional peace of mind.
If you can stand the decorative panels of the party wall, or use resilient bar to fix the panels to, that would be worth considering too.

Lumen

metricspaces wrote: »

So if my wall satisifies Part E, adding a board that gives 20dB reduction on a plain block wall may just give me an extra 3dB and not worth doing?

That bit I highlighted doesn't make much sense to me.

I would have thought that in very simplistic terms a product will give more or less the same sound reduction whatever it's attached to.

I'm not sure it's been made clear in this thread, but there are two types of sound transmission you want to deal with: sound transmitted through air, and sound transmitted through the structure.

For instance, if you fill an suspended ceiling void with some "acoustic insulation" (e.g. 20-25kg/sqm rockwool), it will dull the high frequency sounds that are moving through the void, in the same way as putting your head under a pillow, but the sound also travels through the studs, collected by the flat plane attached to one side (floor) and broadcast by the flat plane on the other (ceiling). It's like a big loudspeaker. So that's where isolation comes in. You decouple the parts of the loudspeaker, e.g. by putting foam rubber between the stud and the board. You'll still have some physical connection from nails or screws, but it will be damped.

TBH I'm not really sure it makes sense to be investing in remediation to a problem you're not even sure exists. Can you do some testing (with help from neighbour) to figure out what you're dealing with?

Anyway, here's the TGD for sound.

https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/tgd-part-e-sound/technical-guidance-document-e-sound