How much do little lies count?

LegacyUser

I hate that I'm writing this but here I am.

My girlfriend has been the best friend and partner I've ever had. We are best friends for 10 years and together around two. There have been periods of long distance in that time and they've changed nothing in the past. We texted, rang, skyped, nothing changed.
Until the last 5 or 6 months.

Now I don't find her as warm or kind or as eager to spend time together. I've asked her if there's a problem, even if she ever wishes we were still friends and she has said no absolutely not. I'm willing to give her whatever time or space she needs to do her own thing, even to change if she needs too even though I'm finding it painful.

One thing I'm finding really hard to take though is that I feel she's lying to me about something even though maybe it's small. She was always very responsive to messages, excited and happy to hear from me, now I wait hours for a reply. She says she hasn't heard it or is sleeping etc but she appears active on the app every 5 or 10 mins very late into the night. In the past this has always been accurate and we've always used it to help us catch up when it would suit, like if I see her online or her me we would say "oh good, youre not working/asleep etc...". I've asked her about this and she's told me the time stamp is inaccurate now and is maybe caused by the phone moving on her bed while she sleeps or it being in her pocket. We both work in IT and she's very tech savvy. I'm know she knows this is highly unlikely to activate an app. I've taken her word because my natural inclination has always been to trust her implicitly. However lately I have checked up on her on it and I notice if shes at the cinema, meeting a friend, seeing family she never registers as online and will be "last seen" around the time she's meeting them until she's coming home. She also got very tetchy about me asking and brought up since that she didn't like it, even though it only happened once.

Shes off work today and home in bed. Earlier we were chatting on the phone and on several occasions she went quiet and seemed distracted for a few mins. My PC was open in front of me and viber was open, she flashed up as online on each of these occasions. I asked "hey are you busy there you sound distracted" and got "no just tired/ just picking something up etc". I asked twice and not again.

I'm not jealous or possessive by nature at all. Nothing like that has ever been an issue with us. She has male friends, I have female friends. I can't imagine why she'd have a reason to lie to me unless she's seeing someone else. Even if that were true it would be
much easier "that's my friend Mary texting" etc than to pretend she's not on the app.

So do I let it go as a white lie? Am I mad to even consider it an issue. I don't want to encroach on her space or make her feel like I'm keeping an eye on her. I'm not, I'm just shocked she might be lying to me. I feel like if I push it , it might end badly. This and other issues are making me feel like I'm losing my best friend. Does anyone have any advice ?

rainbowtrout

OP, I think you already know the answer. She's never online when she 'goes to meet friend'. Her phone is not activating apps on the bed at night when she's in bed. You can see her active on viber when she's talking on the phone to you, and she's outright lying that she isn't. The timestamp isn't inaccurate.


She is most likely cheating, and while you may have been able to trust her in the past, having to accept the logical solution to this behaviour means you have to have an uncomfortable talk with her which could mean the end of the relationship. But realistically if she's being secretive and the trust is gone, you've already lost her. Good luck.

Ursus Horribilis

I think if you weren't emotionally invested in this, you wouldn't be describing this as a case of little lies. It'd be more like "liar liar, pants on fire". Everything, apart from the words coming out of her mouth, point to someone who's not as interested in you as she was. Maybe she's cheating, maybe she isn't. She's certainly being less than truthful.

And if you're resorting to the level of cyberstalking you are describing here, the relationship is in trouble anyway. Before this started, were you scrutinising her online activity and comings and goings to this extent? I wouldn't like to describe you as paranoid but that level of watching is not healthy.

GingerLily

You don't trust her and your practically stalking her.

Is there any reason why you think she'd cheat? You've know her for 10 years, has she cheated in previous relationships?

leggo

You can't live this way OP. I've been with people I couldn't trust before and done this same routine, it is absolutely no way to be permanently and, in truth, completely unnecessary as you could just find someone you trust instead. And I know what you're doing because I've done it myself: you're not doing this to 'catch' her, you're doing this to get enough of a data pattern because you clearly want to believe her and make sense of this, even though your gut is screaming at you here. Your gut is almost definitely right that something is up (whether she's cheating or not is another story).

The way you get past this is to accept that you're not crazy or paranoid and you're getting gaslighted here. Trust your gut and accept that you know your partner has been lying to you, but you also don't know what the facts are. Draw a red line under that and accept that a functional relationship cannot exist without trust. Start mentally preparing yourself for the end if it comes to that, because it's possible your girlfriend has too. When you've done all of that and are ready to walk, then it's ultimatum time.

What you'll read here a lot (because it's true) is that people only admit to what you can prove. So don't expect a full answer here, but again you don't even need one because your partner choosing to keep stuff from you is proof enough that you can't move forward. Then sit her down and tell her you know she's been lying to you, that you want to know the truth and won't be moving forward with this until you're satisfied she's told you the full truth, even if that means the relationship ending. What you can expect there is blanket denials, some people will react with anger/gaslighting/accusations of their own, and attempts to figure out what you know so they can confess up to that if needed (don't show your hand and give them that information, just saying you know they haven't been telling the truth is way more effective). You'll probably get bits of all of the above, people don't tend to think of themselves as liars so the guilt will bring out multiple emotions. They may tell the truth but the more likely option (since they've already chosen to lie to you) is that they'll go on the defensive and try convince you you're crazy. That's fine, let them, you'll see it for what it is at this stage.

It actually gets easier from there because you'll see through their lies and all of that makes it easier to leave. In addition to all the bad emotions that come with the end of a relationship, though, you'll get a small sense of pride/elation that you saw through it, confronted them, dealt with it on your terms and were strong enough to walk. It'll likely be easier and a relief after the anxiety and worry you've been going through as is.

DublinHun72

leggo wrote: »

You can't live this way OP. I've been with people I couldn't trust before and done this same routine, it is absolutely no way to be permanently and, in truth, completely unnecessary as you could just find someone you trust instead. And I know what you're doing because I've done it myself: you're not doing this to 'catch' her, you're doing this to get enough of a data pattern because you clearly want to believe her and make sense of this, even though your gut is screaming at you here. Your gut is almost definitely right that something is up (whether she's cheating or not is another story).

The way you get past this is to accept that you're not crazy or paranoid and you're getting gaslighted here. Trust your gut and accept that you know your partner has been lying to you, but you also don't know what the facts are. Draw a red line under that and accept that a functional relationship cannot exist without trust. Start mentally preparing yourself for the end if it comes to that, because it's possible your girlfriend has too. When you've done all of that and are ready to walk, then it's ultimatum time.

What you'll read here a lot (because it's true) is that people only admit to what you can prove. So don't expect a full answer here, but again you don't even need one because your partner choosing to keep stuff from you is proof enough that you can't move forward. Then sit her down and tell her you know she's been lying to you, that you want to know the truth and won't be moving forward with this until you're satisfied she's told you the full truth, even if that means the relationship ending. What you can expect there is blanket denials, some people will react with anger/gaslighting/accusations of their own, and attempts to figure out what you know so they can confess up to that if needed (don't show your hand and give them that information, just saying you know they haven't been telling the truth is way more effective). You'll probably get bits of all of the above, people don't tend to like of themselves as liars so the guilt will bring out multiple emotions. They may tell the truth but the more likely option (since they've already chosen to lie to you) is that they'll go on the defensive and try convince you you're crazy. That's fine, let them, you'll see it for what it is at this stage.

It actually gets easier from there because you'll see through their lies and all of that makes it easier to leave. In addition to all the bad emotions that come with the end of a relationship, though, you'll get a small sense of pride/elation that you saw through it, confronted them, dealt with it on your terms and were strong enough to walk. It'll likely be easier and a relief after the anxiety and worry you've been going through as is.

Agree 100% with this.
I went through the same thing. I can only say it’s a sure fire way to feeling crap. He’d lie blatantly to me he was no where near his phone when I’d see him online , would also go hours not on it when he was supposedly at sports nights out etc yet this lad was never off his phone when he was with me. I never stalked or kept checking but noticed a pattern of this stuff a few times initially when something was up here at the house or I’d text him something important and hours would go by without a response and I’d be looking for him. It drove me nuts in the end the bare faced lies and he’d turn it all back on me in the end. If I’d mention it he’d call me mental and ask me did I want him to keep a diary for me etc !!
In hindsight I wasted my time and I couldn’t look at him towards the end of the relationship as who likes a liar. I don’t know if she’s cheating and I don’t know if he was at the time but believe me it makes it a whole lot easier if you don’t focus on the rows over it. She won’t come clean already so do you want to waste your time like this?
If it happened me now I can honestly say I’d just walk away. Your headspace ain’t worth it.
I wish you the best of luck either way.

LegacyUser

leggo wrote: »

You can't live this way OP. I've been with people I couldn't trust before and done this same routine, it is absolutely no way to be permanently and, in truth, completely unnecessary as you could just find someone you trust instead. And I know what you're doing because I've done it myself: you're not doing this to 'catch' her, you're doing this to get enough of a data pattern because you clearly want to believe her and make sense of this, even though your gut is screaming at you here. Your gut is almost definitely right that something is up (whether she's cheating or not is another story).

The way you get past this is to accept that you're not crazy or paranoid and you're getting gaslighted here. Trust your gut and accept that you know your partner has been lying to you, but you also don't know what the facts are. Draw a red line under that and accept that a functional relationship cannot exist without trust. Start mentally preparing yourself for the end if it comes to that, because it's possible your girlfriend has too. When you've done all of that and are ready to walk, then it's ultimatum time.

What you'll read here a lot (because it's true) is that people only admit to what you can prove. So don't expect a full answer here, but again you don't even need one because your partner choosing to keep stuff from you is proof enough that you can't move forward. Then sit her down and tell her you know she's been lying to you, that you want to know the truth and won't be moving forward with this until you're satisfied she's told you the full truth, even if that means the relationship ending. What you can expect there is blanket denials, some people will react with anger/gaslighting/accusations of their own, and attempts to figure out what you know so they can confess up to that if needed (don't show your hand and give them that information, just saying you know they haven't been telling the truth is way more effective). You'll probably get bits of all of the above, people don't tend to think of themselves as liars so the guilt will bring out multiple emotions. They may tell the truth but the more likely option (since they've already chosen to lie to you) is that they'll go on the defensive and try convince you you're crazy. That's fine, let them, you'll see it for what it is at this stage.

It actually gets easier from there because you'll see through their lies and all of that makes it easier to leave. In addition to all the bad emotions that come with the end of a relationship, though, you'll get a small sense of pride/elation that you saw through it, confronted them, dealt with it on your terms and were strong enough to walk. It'll likely be easier and a relief after the anxiety and worry you've been going through as is.

Thanks very much for this very thoughtful reply. I read it yesterday and I've been thinking about it.
That's all ringing very true, the intense anger over me questioning it once and her mentioning on a few occasions that I should not ever bring it up again, all very out of character for the girl I know. I have been completely ignoring my own instinct over it in favour of blind trust. I've felt like anything else would be disloyal to the relationship we have had for ten years. I have been trying to prove myself wrong by keeping an eye on the app, looking for any evidence that I'm mistaken because I've been desperate to believe her. It's been an enormous wrench to realise I can't trust her as much as I had thought. I'm realising I'll have to look it staight in the face though, you're right that it can't go on. I'll need to steel myself but I'll have it out with her.
I really appreciate the advice, it's really helped me sort my own thoughts out.

Thanks everyone else who has answered too. It's all helped.

never_mind

Maybe_Its_Me wrote: »

Thanks very much for this very thoughtful reply. I read it yesterday and I've been thinking about it.
That's all ringing very true, the intense anger over me questioning it once and her mentioning on a few occasions that I should not ever bring it up again, all very out of character for the girl I know. I have been completely ignoring my own instinct over it in favour of blind trust. I've felt like anything else would be disloyal to the relationship we have had for ten years. I have been trying to prove myself wrong by keeping an eye on the app, looking for any evidence that I'm mistaken because I've been desperate to believe her. It's been an enormous wrench to realise I can't trust her as much as I had thought. I'm realising I'll have to look it staight in the face though, you're right that it can't go on. I'll need to steel myself but I'll have it out with her.
I really appreciate the advice, it's really helped me sort my own thoughts out.

Thanks everyone else who has answered too. It's all helped.

OP, for what it’s worth the Viber time stamp isn’t always accurate. I remember my OH checking mine and it said I was online but I wasn’t on it that day....

Dtp1979

never_mind wrote: »

OP, for what it’s worth the Viber time stamp isn’t always accurate. I remember my OH checking mine and it said I was online but I wasn’t on it that day....

+1 on that actually