Fight Planning Permission for Forestry

lumendecens

I live in Roscommon, in a small valley, well, a bowl really.


A neighbour has applied for planning permission to plant his land with the usual horrible pine trees. Most of his land is on the hills surrounding me, so it will impact light levels, ability of the land to dry, and of course the view.


Does anyone know of successful fights against permission to plant forestry so I can learn from that?


Many thanks.

handlemaster

lumendecens wrote: »

I live in Roscommon, in a small valley, well, a bowl really.


A neighbour has applied for planning permission to plant his land with the usual horrible pine trees. Most of his land is on the hills surrounding me, so it will impact light levels, ability of the land to dry, and of course the view.


Does anyone know of successful fights against permission to plant forestry so I can learn from that?


Many thanks.

can you afford to buy it ?

lumendecens

handlemaster wrote: »

can you afford to buy it ?

Thanks hm.

Looking for ways to fight it and seeking advice from those who have fought and won.

lumendecens

lumendecens wrote: »

Thanks hm.

Looking for ways to fight it and seeking advice from those who have fought and won.

How close to your home is the proposed forest plantation boundary in metres?

Objecting to a planning application is one thing if it’s proposed to be close to your home and outbuildings, but an entirely different proposition for you if you’re in a one off dwelling on half to an acre surrounded by boggy farmland.

Compromise is the thing you should be looking for if you have any kind of reasonable objection to your neighbours intended development of their land use.

tabby aspreme

How big an area will be planted, is there an environmental impact assessment involved.

lumendecens

THX JZ

His land abuts the land my house is on and is about 150m from my house.

The planting, given that's on hilly land, will block a lot of light and air movement both for me and a neighbour.

From other discussions, there is unlikely to be much we can do and your advice to seek compromise is about the best approach I think. Or land swap with the forestry.

Many thanks

lumendecens

lumendecens wrote: »

THX JZ

His land abuts the land my house is on and is about 150m from my house.

The planting, given that's on hilly land, will block a lot of light and air movement both for me and a neighbour.

From other discussions, there is unlikely to be much we can do and your advice to seek compromise is about the best approach I think. Or land swap with the forestry.

Many thanks

THX TA

Good call. A neighbour is checking in the EI aspect, but given it is only about 19 ha, probably not required, but he's looking into that.

tabby aspreme

Could you get him to plant a few rows of mixed broad leaves around the edge of the forestry, it would add some color and diversity compared to just Sitka.

lumendecens

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Could you get him to plant a few rows of mixed broad leaves around the edge of the forestry, it would add some color and diversity compared to just Sitka.

thx again TA

That would certainly look better alright and better support the red squirrel and Jay populations I've been trying to increase.

handlemaster

lumendecens wrote: »

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Could you get him to plant a few rows of mixed broad leaves around the edge of the forestry, it would add some color and diversity compared to just Sitka.

thx again TA

That would certainly look better alright and better support the red squirrel and Jay populations I've been trying to increase.

The red squirrel wont put food on the table for this man. Have you spoken to land owner regarding your concerns ?

lumendecens

handlemaster wrote: »

The red squirrel wont put food on the table for this man. Have you spoken to land owner regarding your concerns ?

Yep, HM, all about money sadly.

LOL...um, yeah, a few of us have tried chatting with him. The neighbours who feed his cattle on the land in winter (he lives elsewhere) were told to mind their &*^%$# business. (!)

handlemaster

lumendecens wrote: »

handlemaster wrote: »

The red squirrel wont put food on the table for this man. Have you spoken to land owner regarding your concerns ?

Yep, HM, all about money sadly.

LOL...um, yeah, a few of us have tried chatting with him. The neighbours who feed his cattle on the land in winter (he lives elsewhere) were told to mind their &*^%$# business. (!)

Why would they be feeding his cattle with an additude like that ? Best get solicitor advise

lumendecens

handlemaster wrote: »

Why would they be feeding his cattle with an additude like that ? Best get solicitor advise

We might end up in a damp, tree edged shadow, but we know we'll have been good neighbours to him!

Just need advice from someone who has fought forestry planning permission and won or, as JayZeus said, achieved a compromise.

Birdnuts

handlemaster wrote: »

The red squirrel wont put food on the table for this man. Have you spoken to land owner regarding your concerns ?

Theres a requirement for a certain % of broadleaf woodland in such plantings. Secondly its tax payers money that funds such forestry so there is a requirement that some public good is delevered in terms of biodiversity, water quality etc.

lumendecens

Birdnuts wrote: »

Theres a requirement for a certain % of broadleaf woodland in such plantings. Secondly its tax payers money that funds such forestry so there is a requirement that some public good is delevered in terms of biodiversity, water quality etc.

Thx Birdnuts, good info. Will have to research your second point further as the only public good I can figure is the ability of Ireland to meet its carbon capture commitments, even though forestry largely serves to just kick that can down the road. Given the massive amount of forestry here already, I think it could be argued we've reached a local inflection point at which biodiversity is actually being reduced. I don't want any trees on the hills right around my house, but broadleaf would be an improvement and at least let winter sun through the canopy.

With his land bordering 150 meters (plenty of distance) from your house, you don't have a hope of an objection being effective, to be quite straight about it.

"Given the massive amount of forestry here already..."

Complete nonsense, to be fair. Roscommon has about 10-12% forest cover. That's not massive. It's about the national average, which puts Ireland at the bottom of the list for the entire EU.

I get that you don't want to live surrounded by trees, but that's just your wants. Don't try to argue that there are too many trees, locally or county wide either for biodiversity or cynical views on carbon emission offsets. To do so is to distract yourself and won't win any arguments anyway.

I hope he's allowed plant his trees. I hope he continues telling those other nosey neighbours to mind their own business (you can bet they're not feeding his cattle for nothing in return anyway) and that he meets his obligations in terms of a mixed plantation to include native species.

More people need to plant trees. Your garden was probably once a forested land too.

Birdnuts

lumendecens wrote: »

Thx Birdnuts, good info. Will have to research your second point further as the only public good I can figure is the ability of Ireland to meet its carbon capture commitments, even though forestry largely serves to just kick that can down the road. Given the massive amount of forestry here already, I think it could be argued we've reached a local inflection point at which biodiversity is actually being reduced. I don't want any trees on the hills right around my house, but broadleaf would be an improvement and at least let winter sun through the canopy.

Thats a bit of con-job too cos alot of this conifer forestry was planted on peatlands which are our most important carbon stores. The draining,ploughing and road construction required for conifer forestry on these sites destroys this function

Birdnuts

JayZeus wrote: »

With his land bordering 150 meters (plenty of distance) from your house, you don't have a hope of an objection being effective, to be quite straight about it.

"Given the massive amount of forestry here already..."

Complete nonsense, to be fair. Roscommon has about 10-12% forest cover. That's not massive. It's about the national average, which puts Ireland at the bottom of the list for the entire EU.

I get that you don't want to live surrounded by trees, but that's just your wants. Don't try to argue that there are too many trees, locally or county wide either for biodiversity or cynical views on carbon emission offsets. To do so is to distract yourself and won't win any arguments anyway.

I hope he's allowed plant his trees. I hope he continues telling those other nosey neighbours to mind their own business (you can bet they're not feeding his cattle for nothing in return anyway) and that he meets his obligations in terms of a mixed plantation to include native species.

More people need to plant trees. Your garden was probably once a forested land too.

Nobody is arguing that - the OP is making a reasonable argument about not wanting to live in the middle of a monoculture spruce plantation and all the negatives that brings to his own landholding and the wider environment. This issue is not just a case of few individuals complaining, farm organisations like Natura Farmers and even recently the IFA have voiced concerns in this area, not to mention NGO's like the Woodlands trust who are actually all for tree planting.

TomOnBoard

Birdnuts wrote: »

Thats a bit of con-job too cos alot of this conifer forestry was planted on peatlands which are our most important carbon stores. The draining,ploughing and road construction required for conifer forestry on these sites destroys this function

How does said conifer forestry destroy the carbon store function?

Birdnuts

TomOnBoard wrote: »

How does said conifer forestry destroy the carbon store function?

When you plough and drain a bog for forestry it release vast amounts of Methane(the most potent warming gas), CO2 etc. that it has been storing for thousands of years. If you read old accounts of the height and scale of raised bogs in this country before the introduction of forestry or the operation of BnM you will get a sense of the scale of the loss. That is why many countries in the EU are now spending big money to restore their bogs as its one of the most effective ways of carbon storage, and provides a range of other benefits too like flood mitigation, water quality improvement etc.

Accidentally

lumendecens wrote: »

I live in Roscommon, in a small valley, well, a bowl really.


A neighbour has applied for planning permission to plant his land with the usual horrible pine trees. Most of his land is on the hills surrounding me, so it will impact light levels, ability of the land to dry, and of course the view.


Does anyone know of successful fights against permission to plant forestry so I can learn from that?


Many thanks.

I presume he's using a forestry company. If yes, I would contact them, voice your concerns and see if they will act as a mediator.

You mention your concerns are light and diversity, so the usual two rows of birch wrapped around the plantation aren't going to help you. You'd be looking for a strip of broadleaves on the crest of the hill.

TomOnBoard

Birdnuts wrote: »

When you plough and drain a bog for forestry it release vast amounts of Methane(the most potent warming gas), CO2 etc. that it has been storing for thousands of years. If you read old accounts of the height and scale of raised bogs in this country before the introduction of forestry or the operation of BnM you will get a sense of the scale of the loss. That is why many countries in the EU are now spending big money to restore their bogs as its one of the most effective ways of carbon storage, and provides a range of other benefits too like flood mitigation, water quality improvement etc.

I didn't know that. I thought that the newly growing trees would suck more CO2 out of the atmosphere that would be added from escaping gases. I do think that steadily rising temperatures and drying out of bogs will lead to increased gas escape as (yet another) impact of global warming....

fergus1001

can you point out a piece of bogland that has been planted with conifers in the last 20 years ??

cycling is fun

fergus1001 wrote: »

can you point out a piece of bogland that has been planted with conifers in the last 20 years ??

your joking right?

Corca Baiscinn

OP I dont know if it will help but look up Edwina Guckian on FB or twitter. Put in something like her name and "Forestry Leitrim" into a search and her name will come up. She 's involved with a group who are concerned about the amount of monoculture of Sitka spruce in Leitrim for same reasons as you and Birdnuts. Also have a read of this article from the Guardian. Even if you can't change the outcome at least you'll see that your concerns are shared by others. Living in the countryside can be peaceful but also isolating and people shouldn't under-estimate the effect of light deprivation. As you say at least broad-leaved trees would provide more but sadly the conifers grow fast and give a more immediate return. from the landowners pov his decision makes sense as trees may offer a better return than alternatives as as he doesn't live there he's not going to be personally affected. Good Luck!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/trees-ireland-biodiversity-sitka-birds-extinction

fergus1001

cycling is fun wrote:

your joking right?

nope name one raised bog that has been planted ?

cycling is fun

fergus1001 wrote: »

nope name one raised bog that has been planted ?

Can I ask why have you added Raised bog, your original statement asked for information on where forest has been planted on bog in the last 20 years you made no reference to raised big the first time

CJG76

All forest approvals include a requirement for 15% broadleaves. Try and make contact with the forestry company involved as they can plant some of this along your nearest boundary to create some different colours and layers. New planting follows strict guidelines and no new forest sites have been planted on boglands for years.

fergus1001

cycling is fun wrote: »

Can I ask why have you added Raised bog, your original statement asked for information on where forest has been planted on bog in the last 20 years you made no reference to raised big the first time

Just in case you started referencing grass fields with black soil under it.

still waiting though ....;)

cycling is fun

fergus1001 wrote: »

Just in case you started referencing grass fields with black soil under it.

still waiting though ....;)

ok a bog beside my own was planted within the last ten years my own forest was planted 27 years ago but my neighbour planted within the last 10 years I am in South Mayo by the way so I hope this answers your question and no reference to grass fields with black soil under it

Odelay

cycling is fun wrote: »

ok a bog beside my own was planted within the last ten years my own forest was planted 27 years ago but my neighbour planted within the last 10 years I am in South Mayo by the way so I hope this answers your question and no reference to grass fields with black soil under it

But can you name one that has been planted in the last 20 years? Where has this been done?