Midlands airport

Shn99

Plans proceeding for a new regional airport in the midlands
https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2018/1016/1003525-midlands-airport/

harr

Is this really needed in such a small country ?

sparrowcar

harr wrote: »

Is this really needed in such a small country ?

No, but then there is a need to take some capacity away from DUB so possibly yes.

Depends on the runway but some cargo could move there, tech and fuel stops. I'm sure Ryanair would love to base a few flights there even just to light a spark under the DAA.

Harry Palmr

Why? You can get to one of Knock, Shannon or Dublin in no more than an hour from any spot in "the midlands"

Dublin is pencilled in for a second runway isn't it?

Shn99

sparrowcar wrote: »

No, but then there is a need to take some capacity away from DUB so possibly yes.

Depends on the runway but some cargo could move there, tech and fuel stops. I'm sure Ryanair would love to base a few flights there even just to light a spark under the DAA.

SNN,NOC and ORK are all under capacity. Shouldn’t these airports be utilized first?

L1011

They won't get the grant and nothing will happen.

Nothing would move from Dublin that couldn't already move to Shannon

Ryanair are moving away from the shed in the sticks approach as passengers no longer tolerate it

force eleven

This old chesnut gets dragged out every couple of years, and has done since 2008. Do people really believe this?

kravmaga

Shn99 wrote: »

Plans proceeding for a new regional airport in the midlands
https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2018/1016/1003525-midlands-airport/

Why? , No need Shannon and Cork or Dublin are not that far from the Midlands.

Majority of the population is on the East coast- Dublin region.

Its not viable, waste of time.

sparrowcar

L1011 wrote: »

They won't get the grant and nothing will happen.

Nothing would move from Dublin that couldn't already move to Shannon

Ryanair are moving away from the shed in the sticks approach as passengers no longer tolerate it

While I don't necessarily disagree with you I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.
Its been touted for years and it's not like DUB is perfectly set up for expansion.
Its only an hour down the road.
All the other airports are almost 3 hours away.

kub

Absolutely ridiculous and obvious Parish pump notions in action. All they have to do in that neck of the woods is go East on the M6 for Dublin or indeed West and then South to Shannon, a massive airport that is under utilised.

L1011

sparrowcar wrote: »

While I don't necessarily disagree with you I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.
Its been touted for years and it's not like DUB is perfectly set up for expansion.
Its only an hour down the road.
All the other airports are almost 3 hours away.

That it has been touted for years and nothing has happened is one main reason to dismiss it!

Shn99

sparrowcar wrote: »

While I don't necessarily disagree with you I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.
Its been touted for years and it's not like DUB is perfectly set up for expansion.
Its only an hour down the road.
All the other airports are almost 3 hours away.

You do realize that not everyone who flies from/to Dublin are living in Dublin?

Edgware

Shn99 wrote: »

You do realize that not everyone who flies from/to Dublin are living in Dublin?

But most are living within a reasonable distance of an airport. Do you want one for everyone in the audience?

zulutango

It's a highly speculative article. An application has been made to the rural development fund. Most of these applications will fail as there is only a set amount to go around. I can't see this kind of money being divvied out without a very clear need.

sparrowcar

Some have commented about SNN or ORK being just as close for midland passengers etc. The report states that the developer is tapping into the capacity issues in DUB. So SNN and ORK pax don't have a bearing on this.

Listen I'm not saying I agree or even support it but I just wouldn't be so quick to dismiss.

2nd runway and terminal 3 in DUB were both touted for years and never going to happen and now 1 is about to commence and the other isn't that far down the line.

mvl

Could Dublin have a second airport anywhere else ? like in ... would Brexit bring bigger demands on its current capacity anyway ?

But I would welcome an airport in midlands because of my location.
Guess there are business-es that would benefit too.

Haven't heard the name Tubber in a while though

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Dublin is getting a new parallel runway and there is plenty of farmland surrounding it for further expansion in the future.
All the infrastructure is present so a brand new midlands airport is highly unlikely.

Gaoth Laidir

An overflow/diversion airport with a runway 23 for all those times Dublin is closed due to strong winds. Stick is at say Kinnegad and it's still near enough to bus pax back to Dublin.

kub

mvl wrote:

Could Dublin have a second airport anywhere else ? like in ... would Brexit bring bigger demands on its current capacity anyway ?

It does already, Cork.

View Profile

Gaoth Laidir wrote:

An overflow/diversion airport with a runway 23 for all those times Dublin is closed due to strong winds. Stick is at say Kinnegad and it's still near enough to bus pax back to Dublin.

Shannon has runway 24.

And often when winds are bad in Dublin, Liverpool is fine.

markpb

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

An overflow/diversion airport with a runway 23 for all those times Dublin is closed due to strong winds. Stick is at say Kinnegad and it's still near enough to bus pax back to Dublin.

How many times has that happened in the last year?

robbie1876

I would imagine Casement would be opened for civil traffic overflowing from Dublin as a preferred option over Offaly. The idea has been touted for years (same as the midlands airport) and would be a lot more convenient and less expensive to develop than Midlands.

Gaoth Laidir

markpb wrote: »

How many times has that happened in the last year?

Several times, but my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I suggested it as an overflow. IF one were to be built (it won't) then I would hope that the runway alignment would be 220-230.

NewApproach

A regional airport in the midlands would be attractive for anyone living even in the Tallaght region of Dublin, let alone those in Kildare and beyond. DUB can be a right pain at times given its busyness.

Also - the number of stands in DUB is as much a problem as the number of runways.

IngazZagni

It's an absolute pie in the sky proposal. I can't believe it's even still being talked about. If it was to be built I believe it would go the same way Ciudad Real Central airport or Madrid South. That closed resulting in over a Billion euro loss to the taxpayer.

Airlines want to fly to Dublin. Not to Shannon or Cork and almost certainly not Midlands airport as they don't have the critical mass. Dublin has lots of room for expansion and indeed much of that will happen over the next few years. Better public transport such as Dublin Metro and the continuing development of Dub as a hub airport and you will quickly see that Dublin Airport is the only show in town.

rivegauche

proper public transport to Dublin city and airport throughout the day from the larger towns in the Midlands would be more helpful but Architects don't get paid to build buses and trains and land owned by vested interests doesn't appreciate.

markpb

NewApproach wrote: »

A regional airport in the midlands would be attractive for anyone living even in the Tallaght region of Dublin, let alone those in Kildare and beyond. DUB can be a right pain at times given its busyness. .

It might be faster to get there, easier to get parking, simpler to navigate and a better experience but if there are limited flights, people won't even look at it in the first place.

Stovepipe

The country can't sustain the number of airports it already has; Waterford and Sligo are hanging on by their fingernails,sustained by the SAR, the Air Corps and private aircraft; Galway is effectively closed (it makes more money as a carpark and marketplace) and Kerry and Knock are essentially kept open by Ryanair and two runways at Clifden and Inishbofin aren't even officially open. Not another cubic meter of concrete should be wasted on another airport on this island.

What Stovepipe said.

It’s utter nonsense and a waste of money pursuing the idea.

Anyway I suspect that the Air Corp would have a serious objection to it anyway.

civdef

The project is headed up by a Tullamore-based architect Patrick Little, a former president of the local Chamber of Commerce, who has argued that a midlands airport is required because of over-capacity in Dublin.

Fairly sure there's something wrong with that sentence...

faoiarvok

civdef wrote: »

Fairly sure there's something wrong with that sentence...

The same thing struck me.

ted1

Shn99 wrote: »

You do realize that not everyone who flies from/to Dublin are living in Dublin?

1.5milliom people live in Dublin

Cork , Belfast and Shannon both cater for the other late Irish cities

What population size is left

Stovepipe

I'll give you the classic example; Galway airport. The locals said: we'd love an airport, great for returning emigrants/tourists/foreign firms etc,etc. the Air Corps could use it, the local aero club and private aircraft owners could use it, business jets could use it and Aer Arran Islands could use it for the islands. Sounds great initially, but it had no ILS so bad weather could make it unusable, it couldn't accept a Ryanair 737 or an Aer Lingus A320 but it could accept Aer Arran ATR 42s, which are not universally popular with the paying public, so the local paying public stayed away in droves and took their flights from Knock or Shannon instead. Aer Arran Islands preferred to operate from Minna (Inverin) and rarely landed at GWY. Apart from that, it was left to the occasional Air Corps or SAR flight and the club aircraft and a few random general aviation flights to keep it open, to justify having ATC and a fire crew on hand. Local political infighting also assisted in making the place unusable. As an exercise in how not to run an airport, it's an object lesson for students of airport policy in Ireland.

mvl

Wonder why ppl think that opening a new one means the old ones (least performant ) have to stay open too ? I thought this could be seen as a business that relocates ... to a new location in order to improve performance.

ted1 wrote: »

1.5milliom people live in Dublin

Cork , Belfast and Shannon both cater for the other late Irish cities

What population size is left

Is it true that Belfast has more than one airport for current population (less than 1.5 mils)?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_with_more_than_one_airport
IMO all "busy" European capitals should have more than 1 airport.
Thought Dublin does need a second airport (with Brexit and all).
With that in mind, and how practical is to reach Midlands for half of the Dublin population anyway, wondering if the Center Parc Longford opening next year could be a reason to bring a Midlands airport on the list again.

L1011

Belfast has two airports and as a result has a weak lineup of routes split across the two of them

Dublin does NOT need a second airport.

Centreparcs in Longford is nowhere near big enough to be thinking of airports.

ted1

mvl wrote: »

Wonder why ppl think that opening a new one means the old ones (least performant ) have to stay open too ? I thought this could be seen as a business that relocates ... to a new location in order to improve performance.


Is it true that Belfast has more than one airport for current population (less than 1.5 mils)?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_with_more_than_one_airport
IMO all "busy" European capitals should have more than 1 airport.
Thought Dublin does need a second airport (with Brexit and all).
With that in mind, and how practical is to reach Midlands for half of the Dublin population anyway, wondering if the Center Parc Longford opening next year could be a reason to bring a Midlands airport on the list again.

A second airport for Dublin would be crazy. Dublin is developing as a hub , having a second location hinders this

Center Paris won’t attract to many from outside Ireland.

They have them in Britain and the continent have them with better weather and cheaper

mvl

but what are the predictions as no of passengers growth after Brexit for Dublin, does anyone know ?

just seeing here they have plans to expand by 2023 to support up to 40 million passengers a year https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/major-expansion-planned-for-dublin-airport-1.3621033

but also how it appears this year they expect would reach 30 mils -
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dublin-airport-on-course-for-30-million-passengers-37330231.html

are they still good with the prediction for 5 years from now, would 40 mils suffice ?

Under His Eye

Just utilise what airports we already have.

Shannon is sitting there under used. Criminal really.

jjbrien

I heard them talking about this airport a few years ago when Brian Cowan was in government. I assumed it was just parish pump politics at work and when he left goverment I assumed that was the end of that. Im originally from Mullingar myself so having an airport in Offaly would be nice but still would be a 45 min drive for my family who live back home and Dublin is a 40 min drive on the M4/M50 so I cant really see this going ahead. As other posters said you got airports all over the country very underused. 2 Belfast airports 2 hours away, Shannon 3 hours away, Cork then of course Waterford but its runway is too short to handle any 737's or A320's.

The only way I could see this airport working is as a low cost base for Ryanair, Norwegian, Easyjet etc.

coylemj

That 'report' from Ciaran Mullolly has 'press release' written all over it and if you didn't look at it with a sceptical eye, you might think the place was almost built.

Plans to build a new regional airport in the midlands are proceeding

they're still talking about it.

A €2.5m Government grant is being sought for an airport project to be based in Tubber, Co Offaly, 18km from Tullamore and 22km from Athlone.

They're asking the Govt. for money

Offaly County Council is now facilitating an application for €2.5m from the Rural Regeneration and Development Fund.

Someone who works in the county council is helping them fill in the application form.

If granted the money will be used for preliminary work on environmental studies around the site.

we can't turn a blade of grass until we get a grant. Because there isn't a cent of private money

Council director of services Tom Shanahan said any matching funding required will be coming from the project developers.

Finally, someone talking sense..... this project is going nowhere if the proposers are not prepared to stump up some of their own money. Calling them 'project developers' is crediting them with more involvement than they deserve since all they have developed so far is a cloud of hot air.

jjbrien

coylemj wrote: »

That 'report' from Ciaran Mullolly has 'press release' written all over it and if you didn't look at it with a sceptical eye, you might think the place was almost built.


they're still talking about it.



They're asking the Govt. for money



Someone who works in the county council is helping them fill in the application form.



we can't turn a blade of grass until we get a grant. Because there isn't a cent of private money


Finally, someone talking sense..... this project is going nowhere if the proposers are not prepared to stump up some of their own money. Calling them 'project developers' is crediting them with more involvement than they deserve since all they have developed so far is a cloud of hot air.

Cant see Leo Varadkar giving them a cent when he said he wasnt supporting any airports a few years ago other than Dublin, Cork or Shannon. Waterford would have a better business case for a grant for to extend their runway since they have all the other facilities already.