Are landlords running a fair business?

BoneIdol · 15-10-2018 11:25pm #1

Landlords in Ireland are complaining of ever increasing government regulations and not being allowed operate in a free market. The Accommodation and Property* forum is absolutely overrun with landlords complaining they are not being treated as a fair business.

I would argue that they are not and should not be treated as a business. A real business needs customer satisfaction and competition. Being a landlord in Ireland today only requires inherent wealth.

The links below highlight how they can get away with practices that in real business would see you against the wall but have little consequence to these "businesses". Would where you work get away with it? Is it just exploitation?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/i-never-stopped-renting-the-house-is-still-the-same-landlord-of-overcrowded-property-dodges-inspection-to-continue-to-rent-36424566.html

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/97-of-cork-rental-homes-failed-safety-checks-779238.html

*I broached this in the accommodation and property forum to a landlord excusing failing safety checks and it was deleted.

Ulysses Gaze · 15-10-2018 11:30pm

^^^^^^^^^^

So what do YOU suggest?

BoneIdol · 15-10-2018 11:31pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^

So what do YOU suggest?

Absolute stringent regulation outside of anything applied to the free market. Rent caps, no evictions under any circumstances even under change of ownership etc.

Ulysses Gaze · 15-10-2018 11:32pm

BoneIdol wrote: »

Absolute stringent regulation.

What does that mean though? What type of regulation?

Twenty Grand · 15-10-2018 11:33pm

In a better Ireland there would be consumer satisfaction and competition.

Right now demand is so high landlords can do as they please. Though it's no different to any market where demand vastly outstrips supply.

Take ticketmaster for example.

BoneIdol wrote: »

Absolute stringent regulation outside of anything applied to the free market. Rent caps, no evictions under any circumstances even under change of ownership etc.

Property is an asset. If people want security then they should buy a home.

I know it's rich to say this now, but we're in a property bubble at the moment. 8 years ago you couldn't give away a house. In 8 years we'll likely be back there when this pops again.

BoneIdol · 15-10-2018 11:33pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

What does that mean though? What type of regulation?

Edited my answer above.

15-10-2018 11:34pm

BoneIdol wrote: »

A real business needs customer satisfaction and competition.

You should explain that to the clampers

Fighting Tao · 15-10-2018 11:34pm

BoneIdol wrote: »

Absolute stringent regulation outside of anything applied to the free market. Rent caps, no evictions under any circumstances even under change of ownership etc.

Just as well you’re not in charge as the end result would be no rental properties due to landlords selling up and you’d be left whinging for a foreva home.

Ulysses Gaze · 15-10-2018 11:36pm

BoneIdol wrote: »

Edited my answer above.

No evictions under any circumstances is unworkable.

So a landlord cannot instigate proceedings against a tenant that refuses to pay rent because they (the tenant) is a gowl? Or if they trash the place? Or if they are causing continuous noise disturbances?

c montgomery · 15-10-2018 11:38pm

BoneIdol wrote: »

Absolute stringent regulation outside of anything applied to the free market. Rent caps, no evictions under any circumstances even under change of ownership etc.

Haha haha

Twenty Grand · 15-10-2018 11:41pm

People also seem to forget that 80% of voters are property owners.

They don't want to see their homes devalued by government building social housing. Especially social housing near them.

Think of the thousands who've been raised out of negative equity by the housing crisis. FG have taken care of them very well.

BoneIdol · 15-10-2018 11:41pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

No evictions under any circumstances is unworkable.

So a landlord cannot instigate proceedings against a tenant that refuses to pay rent because they (the tenant) is a gowl? Or if they trash the place? Or if they are causing noise disturbances?

In fairness I worded that badly. Yes, if the tenant isn't paying they should be gone. The other two circumstances are different. Why would a tenant stay somewhere they have trashed? That doesn't happen. Noise complaints are a complicated council issue.

beauf · 15-10-2018 11:43pm

What's your solution?

The govt not interested in the housing crisis or enforcing the law.

They did a similar survey of cars speeding and it was something like 80% of cars were speeding.

Look how the lied about the figures for that.

They've done the same with fire regulations and rogue builders. Same with standards required for BER ratings.

Someone breaks a nail and they get 100k insurance claim.

How likely things will change in the next election.

beauf · 15-10-2018 11:46pm

BoneIdol wrote: »

Absolute stringent regulation outside of anything applied to the free market. Rent caps, no evictions under any circumstances even under change of ownership etc.

They've decided they can only check 5% how stringent is that...

gctest50 · 15-10-2018 11:48pm

BoneIdol wrote: »

Absolute stringent regulation outside of anything applied to the free market. Rent caps, no evictions under any circumstances even under change of ownership etc.

No,no,no much better :

Rent to be regulated at "mortgage repayments"* + a percentage

In return :

1) apartments, houses to be rented totally unfurnished, just a working heat system, kitchen sink & bathroom

2) Don't pay rent ? out on your ear in a week

(* "mortgage repayments" based on prices in the area etc)

BoneIdol · 15-10-2018 11:51pm

beauf wrote: »

What's your solution?

The govt not interested in the housing crisis or enforcing the law.

They did a similar survey of cars speeding and it was something like 80% of cars were speeding.

Look how the lied about the figures for that.

They've done the same with fire regulations and rogue builders. Same with standards required for BER ratings.

Someone breaks a nail and they get 100k insurance claim.

How likely things will change in the next election.

If you believe the landlords over in the Accommodation and Property forum the government are taking the last bit of bread from their table with the RPZ and the Air Bnb regulations.

I agree with you though that they're not doing enough and these measures only protect the ones that are already in. Fine Gael will never solve this crises.

beauf · 15-10-2018 11:53pm

Why not have the govt take control of all rentals give a LL a % return based on the market value of the property and the govt has to return the property to the LL as they got it.

BoneIdol · 15-10-2018 11:54pm

gctest50 wrote: »

No,no,no much better :

Rent to be regulated at "mortgage repayments"* + a percentage

In return :

1) apartments, houses to be rented totally unfurnished, just a working heat system, kitchen sink & bathroom

2) Don't pay rent ? out on your ear in a week

(* "mortgage repayments" based on prices in the area etc)

On current property prices as the market dictates over a certain length of time? Landlords would see their rents cut by 30% at least in the Dublin Market today.

beauf · 15-10-2018 11:59pm

BoneIdol wrote: »

If you believe the landlords over in the Accommodation and Property forum the government are taking the last bit of bread from their table with the RPZ and the Air Bnb regulations.

I agree with you though that they're not doing enough and these measures only protect the ones that are already in. Fine Gael will never solve this crises.

They won't solve it because they are keeping it going...

We'll it's not viable for LLs then you just have to prove them wrong.

You don't need to have money, you just need to commit to a loan for the next 30yrs or so. Cover any costs in the meanwhile.

gctest50 · 16-10-2018 12:00am

BoneIdol wrote: »

On current property prices as the market dictates over a certain length of time? Landlords would see their rents cut by 30% at least in the Dublin Market today.

Set the rent some other way then

Can't afford to be a landlord then ? CPO it and sell it to a company that can afford it

Housing is too important to be left to Michael M Mouse lads that want to be Kim Kardashian out of the rent of one property

This bit is more important :

1) apartments, houses to be rented totally unfurnished, just a working heat system, kitchen sink & bathroom

2) Don't pay rent ? out on your ear in a week

beauf · 16-10-2018 12:02am

BoneIdol wrote: »

On current property prices as the market dictates over a certain length of time? Landlords would see their rents cut by 30% at least in the Dublin Market today.

Those locked in below market rate would rise.

beauf · 16-10-2018 12:03am

gctest50 wrote: »

...Can't afford to be a landlord then ? CPO it and sell it to a company that can afford it...

Maybe that REIT looking for 25% rise?

dubrov · 16-10-2018 12:04am

With the allowable expense increased to 100% in the budget, landlords are now effectively treated like a business.
Many will complain about having to top up a mortgage (implying somehow it is a loss) completely ignoring the capital payment they are making.

I do have some sympathy though in relation to evictions for non-payment of rent and anti-social behavior.
It should be all done and dusted in 3-6 months instead of the current mess.

Are landlords running a fair business?

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