Showing cattle....fed up of trying

Nathank667

How ye. Long time lurker first time poster. I farm with my dad and we have a few pedigree charolais. I'm mad to go showing, its something I'm really keen on but I'm getting so disheartened. I have quiet cattle but I don't know what way to halter break them. I'd tie them up about 8 months old when weaned and walk them but they'd be jumpy or run ahead of me. I go to shows and see people with such well behaved animals....what am I doing wrong? I have the quietest of cows. I can't break them younger as cows go out to grass after calving. I do be afraid they'll go mental at a sale on me.

I have all the show equipment got and been to tonnes of open days and farm walks. I'm feeling like packing it all in. If I do go showing once in a blue moon I never win anything so everyone thinks I'm wasting my time and money.

Feeling really down about it. I do so much handling with stock but they don't walk the way others do at shows. Everyone else makes it look so easy.

Any advice or words of wisdom appreciated. I'm only 23.

charolais0153

Nathank667 wrote: »

How ye. Long time lurker first time poster. I farm with my dad and we have a few pedigree charolais. I'm mad to go showing, its something I'm really keen on but I'm getting so disheartened. I have quiet cattle but I don't know what way to halter break them. I'd tie them up about 8 months old when weaned and walk them but they'd be jumpy or run ahead of me. I go to shows and see people with such well behaved animals....what am I doing wrong? I have the quietest of cows. I can't break them younger as cows go out to grass after calving. I do be afraid they'll go mental at a sale on me.

I have all the show equipment got and been to tonnes of open days and farm walks. I'm feeling like packing it all in. If I do go showing once in a blue moon I never win anything so everyone thinks I'm wasting my time and money.

Feeling really down about it. I do so much handling with stock but they don't walk the way others do at shows. Everyone else makes it look so easy.

Any advice or words of wisdom appreciated. I'm only 23.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/950blp45tq2x7lm/VID-20130322-WA0002.mov

Nathank667

You've a well trained donkey! My auld lad wouldn't want a donkey here. I tie them in the crush and when they stop pulling I walk them in a pen and then out around the yards but they don't keep their heads up and run ahead of me. I can pet and brush them out in field but they all let me down with the training. Maybe I'm wasting my time and money on this for last 7 years.
I see little kids walking calves and if they can do it what am I doing wrong

Lady Haywire

Patience & practice. Lots & lots of those is your only job.
I've been showing cattle on & off for 15yrs or more. Last year I only trained a pb limo when he hit a year old so you're not starting too late.
Firstly you're doing grand tying them up, that's the way we all start. And there's no way in hell that one tie up will train an animal, hence the patience.
Firstly I would stick them in the headlock gate for an hour or so (supervised, so I bring a book:pac:) just to take the major fight out of them. Then I'd tie them up for another hour or that on a short rope and let them off. Next day, same thing but for a shorter time in the headlock. After a few days- depending on the beasts size or if it had a ring in it's nose i can clip into- I'd untie them. But always start off walking in circles in a small pen- calving pen is perfect. Having a second person is extremely useful too as they can tap on the animal if it stops and stops you fussing about with it yourself. Just continue at this until the beast learns to stop, that's the major thing. Then go into a bigger enclosed area and continue on there until you're comfortable you have complete control and happy to go outside with the animal.

Don't give up! Watch how others show in the ring and try to imitate them, get someone to video you walking one and see where you could improve. Believe me, they all start out running ahead or planting their feet and doing a great donkey impression. No calf was born learning how to flaunt his assets to a judge in the centre of a circle

charolais0153

Nathank667 wrote: »

You've a well trained donkey! My auld lad wouldn't want a donkey here. I tie them in the crush and when they stop pulling I walk them in a pen and then out around the yards but they don't keep their heads up and run ahead of me. I can pet and brush them out in field but they all let me down with the training. Maybe I'm wasting my time and money on this for last 7 years.
I see little kids walking calves and if they can do it what am I doing wrong

Not mine. Just a bookmark. The thinking with the donkey is its not going to let the animal pull it around. Im sure you could get thr loan of an ass if ya wanted

Nathank667

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Patience & practice. Lots & lots of those is your only job.
I've been showing cattle on & off for 15yrs or more. Last year I only trained a pb limo when he hit a year old so you're not starting too late.
Firstly you're doing grand tying them up, that's the way we all start. And there's no way in hell that one tie up will train an animal, hence the patience.
Firstly I would stick them in the headlock gate for an hour or so (supervised, so I bring a book:pac:) just to take the major fight out of them. Then I'd tie them up for another hour or that on a short rope and let them off. Next day, same thing but for a shorter time in the headlock. After a few days- depending on the beasts size or if it had a ring in it's nose i can clip into- I'd untie them. But always start off walking in circles in a small pen- calving pen is perfect. Having a second person is extremely useful too as they can tap on the animal if it stops and stops you fussing about with it yourself. Just continue at this until the beast learns to stop, that's the major thing. Then go into a bigger enclosed area and continue on there until you're comfortable you have complete control and happy to go outside with the animal.

Don't give up! Watch how others show in the ring and try to imitate them, get someone to video you walking one and see where you could improve. Believe me, they all start out running ahead or planting their feet and doing a great donkey impression. No calf was born learning how to flaunt his assets to a judge in the centre of a circle

You know your stuff. Fair play to you. My dad doesn't like dangling rope from their noses in case they'd choke on something tangled up. One calf broke his nose that way on me before. What about heifers? Do you do same with the nose snaffle and a rope?
The trailer scares me as I just think they'll go loopy in it and at a show with all noise people and animals they'll take off on me. Lots of lads say to take 2 animals.
Do they not run ahead of you when going in circles? Then I can't get their heads up so they walk bad and I just get disheartened.
Don't even start me on washing and clipping

Lady Haywire

Nathank667 wrote: »

You know your stuff. Fair play to you. My dad doesn't like dangling rope from their noses in case they'd choke on something tangled up. One calf broke his nose that way on me before. What about heifers? Do you do same with the nose snaffle and a rope?
The trailer scares me as I just think they'll go loopy in it and at a show with all noise people and animals they'll take off on me. Lots of lads say to take 2 animals.
Do they not run ahead of you when going in circles? Then I can't get their heads up so they walk bad and I just get disheartened.
Don't even start me on washing and clipping

Never leave anything dangling from their nose here, just do the training & let them off, bring them back in the next day. I also wouldn't leave them tied up or in the headlock without supervising them, just in case they'd slip or that.
I'm not as keen putting anything on a heifers nose as they tend to dislike it. Though I haven't shown many heifers over weanling age tbh. If I was I'd definitely use use for safety sake, plus it's the only way to get them used to holding their head up.

Lots of fellas put them into trailers for a trial run around the place, just go for a drive with them and get them used to it. Plus bring them to a mart & tie them up to get them used to the atmosphere. I've never bothered with that tbh, just bring them early enough and tie them & they'll be used to it by the time your class rolls around :pac:

Yep, they do run in front of me....if i let them get ahead of me! When starting off training I'd walk backward directly in front of them, with someone tapping on behind, keeping their head/nose on a short rope. That way i have the best control possible & they can't curl their heads down to use the power in their neck. You have to kind of pre-emp those sort of things and try to avoid giving them any advantage where they'll use brute strength to get free/act up.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Nathank667 wrote: »

You've a well trained donkey! My auld lad wouldn't want a donkey here. I tie them in the crush and when they stop pulling I walk them in a pen and then out around the yards but they don't keep their heads up and run ahead of me. I can pet and brush them out in field but they all let me down with the training. Maybe I'm wasting my time and money on this for last 7 years.
I see little kids walking calves and if they can do it what am I doing wrong

I've halter trained a few in my time and it takes a lot of time so don't give up.

One place I worked had a 3 point linkage set with 2 parallel bars and 3 vertical bars about 3 foot apart and we used train cattle in 3s. Just tie the halter to the vertical bars using a quick rip knot. Drive forward in the lowest gear with their heads held level for a few minutes each day and a bit of ration after. Next day a few minutes longer and once they get to 15 minutes, we used walk them by hand.


I was told to walk close in at first and KEEP THE HEAD UP!!!


Once their head goes down, they have the power to walk you rather than the other way around. If you can do that, you're nearly there.



Some will be easier than others to train but keep at it and you'll learn all the tricks and strategies over time.

Bellview

Been at showing on and off over 30 years...but recently gave it up as feel the fun is gone from it as personalities have changed a lot even in last 10 years when new money turned up and lads more worried about buying the winners rather than breeding them...but rant aside my advice is

Catch them as early as possible...you can pull them rather than they pull you this is especially for heifers
When working with bulls if not caught early then wait until ring is on. Do the halter in crush and hold nose gently and over time you will have brakes.
In preparation for a sale play a radio in the shed as once they are used of noise then that removes one variable.
Carry them for a drive in a trailer a day or 2 before the sale so they are familiar with box and they won't want to escape when you arrive at mart
Try to bring animals with company when going to sale as they settle easier

Enjoy it but please don't take it serious as I have seen a few folks go from being nice friendly kids to winner at all costs asses

Base price

I used to do a lot of showing and like the Sheriff's story I use to use the tractor with a frame on the back for training. Always have someone walking beside the animal otherwise they don't associate the process iykwim.

However before you start walking they need to be used to the halter and knowing that it doesn't come off no matter how hard they pull. Tying them to a ring on a wall (at head height) for a few minutes every day helps. Don't leave the rope long enough that they can get it caught around their neck, legs.
I always used a Big Jim halter as they learn quickly not to pull. I used to tape hose pipe insulation around it so it wasn't too severe. You can make them yourself with rebar, some chain and a clip. Unless you have control of their heads you are wasting your time and a Big Jim will give you that control.
Caution - don't leave too much extra chain hanging cause it fecking hurts you when they shake their heads and you get hit with it.
Here is a picture of a Big Jim - the loop on the top is where the lead ropes clips onto.
Patience, patience and more patience is the key. Best of luck.

Sheep breeder

Bellview wrote: »

Been at showing on and off over 30 years...but recently gave it up as feel the fun is gone from it as personalities have changed a lot even in last 10 years when new money turned up and lads more worried about buying the winners rather than breeding them...but rant aside my advice is

Catch them as early as possible...you can pull them rather than they pull you this is especially for heifers
When working with bulls if not caught early then wait until ring is on. Do the halter in crush and hold nose gently and over time you will have brakes.
In preparation for a sale play a radio in the shed as once they are used of noise then that removes one variable.
Carry them for a drive in a trailer a day or 2 before the sale so they are familiar with box and they won't want to escape when you arrive at mart
Try to bring animals with company when going to sale as they settle easier

Enjoy it but please don't take it serious as I have seen a few folks go from being nice friendly kids to winner at all costs asses

Agree totally with your first part, no craic any more with the couple of big boys killing the sport and the judges are a joke,
Always worked with the radio on, used to tie 3 animals at a time to the back of the cattle box and drive around a paddock to break them in and trained to keep the head up from day one,
But the main thing was get the animal use to you, always had the animal trust by smell of my hand and a little treat in the pocket and plenty of rubbing and this helps to build a bond between you and your animal,
Also get to know your animals movements and then you can slow up or speed up to look better in the ring. A good thing to buy is a good pair of gloves. Also get a friend to come and look how the animal moves during training and they can pick up on the faults and then the hand signals for showing ring to correct.
Any animal can be trained to show, we once broke and showed a 6 year old blonde cow to win several shows.
And last enjoy the craic and meet new friends of the same mind and will open up a new world for you on breeding, travel to sales etc.

farmer2018

Hi All, some advise needed, I am in the process a walking a bull, the first two times I walked him in the small yard he walked well with a little tap from behind. The 3rd and 4th times he didn't want to walk, he was lying down in the ground trying to push out against the gates and turning his head. After the 2nd time walking he hasn't been really tied up. What should I do?

Bellview

farmer2018 wrote:

Hi All, some advise needed, I am in the process a walking a bull, the first two times I walked him in the small yard he walked well with a little tap from behind. The 3rd and 4th times he didn't want to walk, he was lying down in the ground trying to push out against the gates and turning his head. After the 2nd time walking he hasn't been really tied up. What should I do?

Animals tend to get bored of same spot...I have same as we have a small yard near crush. I only ever get 2 or 3 runs in it and then I have to walk them in different place around farm yard...once they walk pull them into more open space that is still closed as you don't want to be heading for the road running after a bull

Bellview

Sheep breeder wrote:

Agree totally with your first part, no craic any more with the couple of big boys killing the sport and the judges are a joke, Always worked with the radio on, used to tie 3 animals at a time to the back of the cattle box and drive around a paddock to break them in and trained to keep the head up from day one, But the main thing was get the animal use to you, always had the animal trust by smell of my hand and a little treat in the pocket and plenty of rubbing and this helps to build a bond between you and your animal, Also get to know your animals movements and then you can slow up or speed up to look better in the ring. A good thing to buy is a good pair of gloves. Also get a friend to come and look how the animal moves during training and they can pick up on the faults and then the hand signals for showing ring to correct. Any animal can be trained to show, we once broke and showed a 6 year old blonde cow to win several shows. And last enjoy the craic and meet new friends of the same mind and will open up a new world for you on breeding, travel to sales etc.

Agree...patience is a big part also..if you behave like a nut job the calf will do the same..

wiggy123

calmer is used also...

JustJoe7240

wiggy123 wrote: »

calmer is used also...

All the calmer in the world won't do any good if they're not used to walking in the first place

patsy_mccabe

I've a few pedigrees but I honestly don't see the merit in halter training. At the recent Roundhill Castleview lim heifer sale, all the castleview heifers were sold unhaltered. Let into the ring, two at a time and sold individually. The person who buys the heifer, is never going to put the halter on them again.
I can understand the appeal of showing though. There is a good social side to it. Everyone i've ever met and talked to were sound. Like nothing better than talk about their cattle and breeding.

Lady Haywire

^ I've put a halter on a cow in the field & walked her up to the gate for the AI man. Caused a couple of raised eyebrows, including the cows:D

Bellview

patsy_mccabe wrote:

I've a few pedigrees but I honestly don't see the merit in halter training. At the recent Roundhill Castleview lim heifer sale, all the castleview heifers were sold unhaltered. Let into the ring, two at a time and sold individually. The person who buys the heifer, is never going to put the halter on them again. I can understand the appeal of showing though. There is a good social side to it. Everyone i've ever met and talked to were sound. Like nothing better than talk about their cattle and breeding.

I do the same a lot although I find when a heifer is even half broken they are easier handled for dosing etc.... when ever I sell bulls they are always broken as it definitely helps their temperament...anyone I don't break I cut his head as it's a nut job

Sheep breeder

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I've a few pedigrees but I honestly don't see the merit in halter training. At the recent Roundhill Castleview lim heifer sale, all the castleview heifers were sold unhaltered. Let into the ring, two at a time and sold individually. The person who buys the heifer, is never going to put the halter on them again.
I can understand the appeal of showing though. There is a good social side to it. Everyone i've ever met and talked to were sound. Like nothing better than talk about their cattle and breeding.

The reason to let two in at a time is for them not to show their true temperament, the heifer that has any handling is calmer and that way for life.

farmer2018

wiggy123 wrote: »

calmer is used also...

Does this stuff actually work?

https://www.animalfarmacy.ie/shop/gp-li-eq-sre/tranquil-natural-calmer-1-litre/