disconnect landlord meter

buzz11

I'm on the management of an apartment building which has two landlord supplies in the same building but on separate sides of the block, about 30m apart.
I'm thinking we could run a cable through the attic from one landlord supply and request the ESB to disconnect the second landlord meter.

Any potential problems in doing this?

2011

It may be possible, a survey would be required.

Potential issues:
1) The combined load may be too large for just one meter
2) Cable routing may be challenging.

Other considerations:
1) The cost of this work may mean than return on investment could be so long that it is not worth it. I am assuming that the driver for this is to save on the cost of having 2 meters.
2) At a future date you may be very thankful that you have 2 supplies.
3) Are both meters the same? One may be 3 phase and the other may be single phase.

buzz11

The landlord supply feeds 3 outdoor lights (due to be changed to LED), 3 indoor lights and fire panel, thats all, so very light loads.

Both meters are single phase, single tariff meters.

Definitely a survey & quote will be required but the usage on the two bills is very low and there would be big savings in PSO,VAT, standing charge etc over time.

The existing arrangement has been in place since the apartments were built in 1990 so image the money that could have been saved if this was done years ago.


Are ESB networks difficult/awkward to deal with when it comes to disconnecting a landlord supply?

2011

buzz11 wrote: »

The landlord supply feeds 3 outdoor lights (due to be changed to LED), 3 indoor lights and fire panel, thats all, so very light loads.

Both meters are single phase, single tariff meters.

Perfect.

The existing arrangement has been in place since the apartments were built in 1990 so image the money that could have been saved if this was done years ago.

...and standing charge is very small.
No plans for additional landlord loads in the future? It is always easier and cheaper to disconnect than reconnect.

Are ESB networks difficult/awkward to deal with when it comes to disconnecting a landlord supply?

No.

buzz11

There's a 3rd block (two level with 4 apts) in the development with a landlord meter and I'm wondering how it can be wired up to the main block.
Its separated by about 20ft of grass, digging an underground trench seems too expensive so could a wire be run at high level from gable to gable, attached say to a hawser cable? (like xmas street lights).
There's no roadway underneath so unlikely ever to be snagged by a vehicle.

What you think?

2011

buzz11 wrote: »

What you think?

I think that this is not the way to do it. It would look terrible and may ultimately devalue the property.

Look around at all of the cabling clipped and strung around the exterior of so many buildings and homes. It looks horrendous. The more there is on a building the more others add to it.

This is just my opinion. Others aren’t bothered.

raabbles

You don't. You need to hire a REC electrician to do the work and sign off on it for both regulatory and safety reasons.

It may seem like a quick and simple job that you might get away with DIY if it was your private home but this is an apartment building where these regulations most definitely apply. You would be liable if anything ever happened as a result of this (fire, damage, etc), esb can fine you for uncertified work and probably has impacts on whatever insurance, legal or regulatory obligations an apartment building would have.

As a property manager you should know most of this, or at least that an electrician should be asked first.

2011

raabbles wrote: »

You need to hire a REC electrician to do the work and sign off on it for both regulatory and safety reasons

Nobody suggested otherwise.

buzz11

raabbles wrote: »

You need to hire a REC electrician to do the work and sign off on it for both regulatory and safety reasons.

Of course... not sure why you'd think otherwise

raabbles

buzz11 wrote: »

Of course... not sure why you'd think otherwise

Ah ok then apologies I misunderstood your post. I read it as you asking how to disconnect one supply and bodge the rest of the building through another with some wire and no electrical know how.

No offence meant

Victor

buzz11 wrote: »

the usage on the two bills is very low and there would be big savings in PSO,VAT, standing charge etc over time.

You would only be saving on the standing charge and the VAT that applies to it. The other charges are dependent on how much electricity you use.

"big savings" might be €220 per year.

Dardania

Something to add to the debate - sometimes these separate meters were done deliberately for isolation reasons in the case of fire. Are these metered areas completely separate physically?

Also, to 2011's point about being thankful for having spare capacity etc. bear in mind a pet topic of mine: Electric Vehicle charging. Could there be an opportunity to host an EV charger on site for residents? Could become a revenue stream at some point if you charge a usage fee somehow for interested residents.

2011

Dardania wrote: »

Something to add to the debate - sometimes these separate meters were done deliberately for isolation reasons in the case of fire. Are these metered areas completely separate physically?

I was thinking of this too, but the I thought that it would be possible to have the isolation points for landlords boards (including all sub boards) at the same locations. However this may warrant a chat with the fire officer.

Also, to 2011's point about being thankful for having spare capacity etc. bear in mind a pet topic of mine: Electric Vehicle charging. Could there be an opportunity to host an EV charger on site for residents? Could become a revenue stream at some point if you charge a usage fee somehow for interested residents.

Excellent point.

buzz11

Dardania wrote: »

Something to add to the debate - sometimes these separate meters were done deliberately for isolation reasons in the case of fire. Are these metered areas completely separate physically?

Also, to 2011's point about being thankful for having spare capacity etc. bear in mind a pet topic of mine: Electric Vehicle charging. Could there be an opportunity to host an EV charger on site for residents? Could become a revenue stream at some point if you charge a usage fee somehow for interested residents.

Good points, I'll need to check into both.



"You would only be saving on the standing charge and the VAT that applies to it. The other charges are dependent on how much electricity you use.

"big savings" might be €220 per year"


Just had a quick look at bill the non-usage costs on the bills;

standing charge....€229 per annum
PSO....................€248 per annum
plus 13.5% VAT....€ 64
Total ...............€541

therefore twice that i.e €1,082 p.a if I can de-commission two landlord meters and bring it back to one meter. So quite decent savings to be had if it can all be done in compliance with various issues.

2011

buzz11 wrote: »

therefore twice that i.e €1,082 p.a if I can de-commission two landlord meters and bring it back to one meter. So quite decent savings to be had if it can all be done in compliance with various issues.

Perhaps not.

The cables used for final circuits connected to the existing landlord supplies would have been sized accordingly. So even though the loads are small you may find that in order to meet the required disconnection times the new supply cables will have to be quite large and therefore quite expensive. So even if you find an electrical contractor that is willing to install overhead cabling in the manner you described this could be prohibitively expensive. You may also find that the residents will not be happy about installing cabling in this way.

By the time this has paid for itself you may be looking to get them reinstalled for EV charging points :D

Victor

buzz11 wrote: »

PSO....................€248 per annum

Apologies. I understood this was directly related to consumption. However, it is a flat fee up to 30kVA.

buzz11

Victor wrote: »

Apologies. I understood this was directly related to consumption. However, it is a flat fee up to 30kVA.

And worse VAT is charged on the PSO....so a tax on top of a tax