New ev for 2019?

Dand88

Hi all looking for some help, advice. Want to buy an ev soon aiming for jan 19 , I can charge for free in work so need min 180kms =90 each way but plan on keeping car for 5-10 years so want to factor battery degrade into it so even with say 90% battery in a few years I could still make the each way trip, i am looking at 40kw leaf and kona/niro 64kw but not sure about pricing on the last two, toughts? Thanks a mill in advance

unkel

Leaf won't do 180km in winter at motorway speeds, unless you drive significantly below the speed limits

Kona / Niro will easily do 180 in winter in the worst circumstances at speeds well above the speed limits, and you'll have plenty left over when you get there. They are also likely to keep their value well, because of their range and because they have CCS charging (the Leaf doesn't)

Alternatives to the Leaf are the eGolf and the Ioniq. Both will also struggle to do 180km in winter at motorway speeds but they can probably be driven a bit faster than the Leaf (which has poor aerodynamics and a not very efficient drive train). Both do have the future proof CCS charging system which lets them charge at the new (to be build) Ionity fast charging network

Dand88

unkel wrote: »

Leaf won't do 180km in winter at motorway speeds, unless you drive significantly below the speed limits

Kona / Niro will easily do 180 in winter in the worst circumstances at speeds well above the speed limits, and you'll have plenty left over when you get there. They are also likely to keep their value well, because of their range and because they have CCS charging (the Leaf doesn't)

Alternatives to the Leaf are the eGolf and the Ioniq. Both will also struggle to do 180km in winter at motorway speeds but they can probably be driven a bit faster than the Leaf (which has poor aerodynamics and a not very efficient drive train). Both do have the future proof CCS charging system which lets them charge at the new (to be build) Ionity fast charging network

I am having a hard time with car dealers... I belive because demand for ev's has gone up they are not strugling to sell them for the kona and niro I basically got ... not sure when we are getting them and don't have definite price, as for leaf I was confident it could achieve the 180kms even in worst case (winter,motorway) so I had nearly made my mind up to drop in next week and pay a deposit but not so sure now, also I ja e never bought a new car or ev (always 6 month to year old) I have been told by dealer very little movement in price for a sve leaf 40 giving me a price of 34800, from anyone that has been here and got one any tips for getting the best deal possible?

unkel

€35k for a Leaf is ridiculous. But you're right. Supply of EVs is very limited as the manufacturers just can't make enough of them. And demand has gone up now that everybody is realising the end of the internal combustion engine is getting closer and we will all be driving full EVs within the next few decades. So for a car like the Hyundai Kona EV, it meant in countries where it did go on sale already, the car was sold out almost immediately and zero discounts were available. And once the cars were sold out, there was an immediate waiting list of 12 months...

And about the Leaf, why don't you book one in for a 24h test drive and do your commute and see how you get on? It's free and you'll get a good feel for the car. It might still suit you. But not at that kind of money, when Kona / Niro are only going to be a couple of grand more and are likely to keep their value better.

Dand88

unkel wrote: »

€35k for a Leaf is ridiculous. But you're right. Supply of EVs is very limited as the manufacturers just can't make enough of them. And demand has gone up now that everybody is realising the end of the internal combustion engine is getting closer and we will all be driving full EVs within the next few decades. So for a car like the Hyundai Kona EV, it meant in countries where it did go on sale already, the car was sold out almost immediately and zero discounts were available. And once the cars were sold out, there was an immediate waiting list of 12 months...

And about the Leaf, why don't you book one in for a 24h test drive and do your commute and see how you get on? It's free and you'll get a good feel for the car. It might still suit you. But not at that kind of money, when Kona / Niro are only going to be a couple of grand more and are likely to keep their value better.

Thanks for the info, yes just booked test drive and due to drop into the local nissan garage tomororow, any ideas if how much I should be looking to get off the 34800 price tag , I also have a 2007 qashqai with 340kms on clock from new it's time is nearly comming to an end so was thinking of growing this against a new car as a scrapage/trade , I am hoping to get into an ev at the latest jan19 so it seems the kona and niro could be a good bit past that possibly even 192 ?

unkel

Personally I think I would hold out for Kona / Niro, but it won't do any harm to talk to several Nissan, Hyundai and VW dealers to see what sort of total cost to change they would offer for you to trade up your QashQai to a Leaf, Ioniq or eGolf

Dand88

unkel wrote: »

Personally I think I would hold out for Kona / Niro, but it won't do any harm to talk to several Nissan, Hyundai and VW dealers to see what sort of total cost to change they would offer for you to trade up your QashQai to a Leaf, Ioniq or eGolf

Just spoke to kia, niro will hit around may/June 19 , kona think jan 19 but with a small chance of getting one with demand and leaf available now and jan as a 191 , now do I have patience or just get a leaf... decisions its the range that is killing me to be honest i think the leaf is the best looking of the threw but hearing great things about range on the kona/niro but not so much great thingd Bout the leaf

80sDiesel

Dand88 wrote: »

unkel wrote: »

Personally I think I would hold out for Kona / Niro, but it won't do any harm to talk to several Nissan, Hyundai and VW dealers to see what sort of total cost to change they would offer for you to trade up your QashQai to a Leaf, Ioniq or eGolf

Just spoke to kia, niro will hit around may/June 19 , kona think jan 19 but with a small chance of getting one with demand and leaf available now and jan as a 191 , now do I have patience or just get a leaf... decisions its the range that is killing me to be honest i think the leaf is the best looking of the threw but hearing great things about range on the kona/niro but not so much great thingd Bout the leaf

So you cant charge at home ?
The other alternative is the 2019 BMW I3 120ah which will easily do over 200k but its not cheap.

Dand88

80sDiesel wrote: »

So you cant charge at home ?
The other alternative is the 2019 BMW I3 120ah which will easily do over 200k but its not cheap.

Yes I plan to install and have a charger at the ready for home use, my workplace has chargers for free use and it's 180kms in total to and from work so my thinking is most charging will be done at work with home charger being used for when I am off and we are heading off on family days out.

unkel

Do some sums as well. Not much point spending €5,000 extra on a car that will only save you €100 per year in home charging! All EVs for sale these days can easily do well over 90km at motorway speeds in the worst possible weather and have plenty left over. So charging both at home and at work might be the option that works out the best for you...

KCross

Dand88 wrote: »

Yes I plan to install and have a charger at the ready for home use, my workplace has chargers for free use and it's 180kms in total to and from work so my thinking is most charging will be done at work with home charger being used for when I am off and we are heading off on family days out.

That changes things.
If you can charge at home the Leaf will be fine. Just give it even 30mins on the home charger via a timer and it will remove any winter range anxiety.

€35k for a Leaf is too much though particularly if you have an eNiro with more than twice the range out 5 months later for another, probably, €3-5k.

80sDiesel

KCross wrote: »

Dand88 wrote: »

Yes I plan to install and have a charger at the ready for home use, my workplace has chargers for free use and it's 180kms in total to and from work so my thinking is most charging will be done at work with home charger being used for when I am off and we are heading off on family days out.

That changes things.
If you can charge at home the Leaf will be fine. Just give it even 30mins on the home charger via a timer and it will remove any winter range anxiety.

€35k for a Leaf is too much though particularly if you have an eNiro with more than twice the range out 5 months later for another, probably, €3-5k.

I would keep the qashqai  going until the eNiro comes available. I always wondered how high Ks the nissan would go. 

Dand88

Took a leaf for test drive today have to say extremely impressed, I have been stuck on getting a leaf for the past year, the kona and niro are swaying me but something about the leaf is drawing me back it, I am 99% sure at this point and ready to pay a deposit for a 192, by the way just about 345000 mkms on the qashqai and still plenty of life left in it, rang a couple of dealers today and to be honest don't feel anyone wants to give a great deal at all getting offered 2k for my car as a trade in and not a penny off the list price.. should i be pushing more here or is it a case that demand has now removed the hagling in price??

unkel

What has always been the reality is that a main dealer doesn't want your Qasqai (or in most cases any car > 5 years old or so). The minute he has it, it needs to be off the forecourt and he will let someone in the lower orders of the trade take it off him for very little money.

And the new reality is that EVs sell for pretty much the list price. Very little room for negotiation. I still can't see a Leaf being €35k list price though, how did he get to that figure? And more importantly, did you contact all Nissan dealers in Ireland? That's what I did when I bought my car and it is the only way to minimize the price you pay

Dand88

unkel wrote: »

What has always been the reality is that a main dealer doesn't want your Qasqai (or in most cases any car > 5 years old or so). The minute he has it, it needs to be off the forecourt and he will let someone in the lower orders of the trade take it off him for very little money.

And the new reality is that EVs sell for pretty much the list price. Very little room for negotiation. I still can't see a Leaf being €35k list price though, how did he get to that figure? And more importantly, did you contact all Nissan dealers in Ireland? That's what I did when I bought my car and it is the only way to minimize the price you pay

Multiple nissan garages contacted prices quoted varied slightly from, SV model 30300 to 31100 and sve 34700 to 35200 not massive amounts of difference but still a difference but unfornetly most said no movement in price with only one saying there's a couple of hundred as a good will gesture, I got priced between 1-2.5k for qashqai for trade in. I am going to just go and pay a deposit at my local dealer (carlow) as they are not far off the lower prices quoted above and are offering 2.5k for the Qashqai, I also took a look at a KONA today (petrol) dident find the spec to be anywhere near the nissan l40 it seems the leaf is well ahead of the game spec wise but while I was at the hyundai dealers I explained my situation and the dealer said he would go for the ionic as it will do the same range or better the the 40kw leaf.. surely this is BS as it's a 28kw vs 40kw (38) usualable or am I missing something?

unkel

The list of the SVE is 32600, which is pricey enough as it is. But how does that become 35200? I know there is a delivery charge and all that, but that seems to be taking the p1ss.

There is no way I'd spend €35k of my money on a Leaf when there are cars with twice the range and CCS charging coming out in the next few months that will only cost a few grand more and that are likely to keep their value better.

Dand88

unkel wrote: »

The list of the SVE is 32600, which is pricey enough as it is. But how does that become 35200? I know there is a delivery charge and all that, but that seems to be taking the p1ss.

There is no way I'd spend €35k of my money on a Leaf when there are cars with twice the range and CCS charging coming out in the next few months that will only cost a few grand more and that are likely to keep their value better.

To be honest the whole thing is very frustrating my buddy in work purchased his nissan leaf 40 back at release around June and he explained it as 'they couldn't do enough for him' getting a great deal etc , no I understand demand for ev's has increased but I am getting higher prices dealers not calling back, and basically an impression that they don't want my money or business with one dealer even telling me why would he give me a discount when the next guy will pay in full as they can't keep stock of ev's it's just not something I am used to at a car dealers!

ewj1978

Buy one in the UK.

liamog

It's really amazing to see the consensus on here switch from don't buy CCS because it's more limited, to CCS is the better option but not yet a must have, in just two years.

The Ionity network plus eCars replacing the non-ccs chargers has really changed the equation.

unkel

liamog wrote: »

It's really amazing to see the consensus on here switch from don't buy CCS because it's more limited

LOL, who said that two years ago? Even years before that, CHAdeMO in Europe was at a dead end as CCS had been chosen as the defacto standard (in 2014) after it was proposed as the new standard back in 2011

KCross

If only you could buy a CCS car!

unkel

If only you could buy any car that can fast charge and that doesn't cost €90k or more :pac:

catharsis

unkel wrote: »

The list of the SVE is 32600, which is pricey enough as it is. But how does that become 35200? I know there is a delivery charge and all that, but that seems to be taking the p1ss.

Dand88 wrote: »

To be honest the whole thing is very frustrating my buddy in work purchased his nissan leaf 40 back at release around June and he explained it as 'they couldn't do enough for him' getting a great deal etc , no I understand demand for ev's has increased but I am getting higher prices dealers not calling back, and basically an impression that they don't want my money or business with one dealer even telling me why would he give me a discount when the next guy will pay in full as they can't keep stock of ev's it's just not something I am used to at a car dealers!

My invoice and records show a list of 38600 for the SVE, with an additional 600 for metallic paint, (not including the 5K grant).

So your 32600 figure appears to be 1000 off and also does not include metallic.

This may explain the difference (particularly if the OP is buying through a company and only receiving 3800 grant)