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New Pup advice.
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11-10-2018 12:55pm#1Hi guys, we have just adopted the most gorgeous little pooch. We were led to believe he's was 12 months but according to his passport he is only 7 months. I've always adopted slightly older dogs so really want to give him the best start with training.
He is toilet trained barring a mishap on his first night but put that down to nerves and excitement. He is doing the bitey thing but not in a hurtful way. He's playing with our other dog so assuming that will work itself out. I'm doing the ouchy thing so he knows not to bite us. Our other dog is mature and can sort him out with limits in her own way as they are having a whale of a time.
He's still struggling a bit with the stairs. So should we leave him and let him figure out how to get up? We have on occasion carried him up when its late at night as we also run a guesthouse so terrified if we leave him a guest will come back and he will escape out the door but we let him figure it for the most part. My thinking was it wouldnt be too harmful as its early days and he's still coming to recognise that this is his home.
He's still getting to know his given name as well then we can start to work on his recall.
Any advice would be great, he is a terrific little thing and really want to make sure he is bombproof with recall and behaviour around others which he's already showing good signs off. He's lovely out and no problems on the lead and with meeting other dogs and humans alike.
We really want to give him the best life and in order to get the dog that works for us, we absolutely have to sort his recall. Oh and have just bought a load of toys for when they are in the house to keep them occupied while we clean rooms. the likes of a treat dispensing kong for his biteyness and treat dispensers that they have to figure out.
Thanks in advance.
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Hi Cocker, it's been ages since I've posted on boards cos i moved to the UK. Completely forgotten how to post pics on here.
Got loads of help on here when i adopted my last dog cos my lurcher wasn't taking to her. My darling lurcher Tipp passed away last month due to a really aggressive cancer which is still heartbreaking.
Mitzy was so lonely without her though so now we have the new pup. He's adorable. I could post an Instagram link but its linked to our guesthouse account and don't want to be accused of shilling.
We're gonna keep working on the stairs. He'll get there.
Ps, just noticed you started the Glastonbury thread, did you get tickets?
Ahhh im so so sorry to hear your Tipp passed away I can only imagine how hard that must have been
LOVE your new pups name!! just attached a photo of the wee pet!
On the glasto thing yeah we have tickets - to be honest we've taken the easy way out and booked a package that includes glamping and tickets.. you can book a few weeks before they go on sale etc....couldn't face the stress of the online battle!0 -
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Congratulations on your new pooch Mince Pie
When he does toilet outside, how are you reinforcing that?
Would you consider containing him in a playpen or crate at those risky times?
You say there are times you're pretty sure he's gonna go... Just after he's already been out? Is this right? If so, bring him out again straight after he's just come in! It kinda sounds as if there's a bit of reverse house training that's happened here... Not with you though!0 -
Hi my lovely, thanks so much for the advice. We live in an apartment in a guesthouse so have to take him down stairs and outside to toilet. When he won't willingly come back up the stairs I take him back out without Mitzy cos she can be a distraction.Congratulations on your new pooch Mince Pie
When he does toilet outside, how are you reinforcing that?
Would you consider containing him in a playpen or crate at those risky times?
You say there are times you're pretty sure he's gonna go... Just after he's already been out? Is this right? If so, bring him out again straight after he's just come in! It kinda sounds as if there's a bit of reverse house training that's happened here... Not with you though!
He's a young collie. You can just tell he is really clever but really stupid at the same time cos he is a pup. He's got quite a stubborn streak but we just love him. I know time put in now is going to give us the most amazing dog. I've never house trained a dog before though cos last dogs I adopted were a bit older.0 -
Make sure to make going outside seriously rewarding for him... Salami, ham, cheese, and lots and lots of warm, happy praise. As he toilets, coo softly at him. Once he lifts out of the squat, it's party time!
He won't be too long in copping that going outside makes the human dispense all the lovely stuff
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I have been doing that but was about to stop cos he pee'd in the hall so thought maybe I was rewarding the pee and not the pee location if you get me. It's really hard cos he's young, bitey, energetic, dumb, clever and doesn't know when to stop with Mitzy. She's baring teeth a lot when they're not chasing each other around the place. He's quite the handful sometimes but also really sweet and snuggly. Kinda hoping we power through and really work on his training now and we can relax later.Make sure to make going outside seriously rewarding for him... Salami, ham, cheese, and lots and lots of warm, happy praise. As he toilets, coo softly at him. Once he lifts out of the squat, it's party time!
He won't be too long in copping that going outside makes the human dispense all the lovely stuff 0 -
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I've only just spotted something in your last answer to me, and must clarify... He should only be reinforced when he pees, outside. Never inside.
The problem with toileting, whether pee or poop, is that the relief resulting from elimination is intrinsically rewarding. So, when dogs start peeing/pooping in a certain spot inside, despite us shovelling tasty goodies into them when they go outside, they're still getting that intrinsic reinforcement from toileting inside which maintains that behaviour.
That's why crate training works well... Because it almost always prevents the indoor toileting, thereby preventing rehearsal and repeated reinforcement, which eventually causes the behaviour to fizzle out.
So, you've guessed it, I think you need to crate or playpen him at the danger times. I'd also suggest you get an old mat for him to target his poops onto in the garden (if this makes it easier to get him to poop when you return from a walk), and gradually cut the mat down to a smaller and smaller size until it's gone completely, remembering to continue the jackpot food rewards.
The crate takes the second-guessing out of the equation, and allows you to maximise successful visits to the garden whilst minimising (preferably completely eliminating) any rehearsals indoors.
The UK is, without doubt, the best place in the world to be when it comes to finding a certified trainer and/or behaviourist!
Try
http://www.apdt.co.uk/dog-owners/local-dog-trainers
There's also the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors (www.apbc.org.uk) but their members' listing page is under renovation at the min.
Or, there's the umbrella group which encompasses both of the above organisations, and a few others... The Animal Behaviour and Training Council...
http://www.abtcouncil.org.uk/index/abtc-members-by-region.html
You can see that the ABTC has various categories of certified practitioners (bottom right of page), all of whom have made the grade at assessment, and all of whom adhere to dog-friendly training 0 -
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Was out with him not long ago, he's been playing with Mitzy and has just done another big poo where the rug was. Husband is definitely at the end of his rope.
How is the crate going to help during the day. I'm really at a loss. He's ready to send him back but I'm willing to try cos I'm hoping this will pass with proper training.
Sorry for all the posts, we're just knackered cos we run the guesthouse which is exhausting and being woken up in the middle of the night doesn't help. I really don't know how to prevent the day time poo's cos we were right in the room and he's lightning quick. 0 -
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Mince Pie,
I'd remove rugs, as knine advises.
Also, for now, and this'll likely only be for a couple of weeks, you MUST have pup in the crate when he's in the house AND if there's any question mark over whether he's lining a poop up
In other words, once he has pooped in the garden, you can be pretty sure he's safe to have loose inside for a couple of hours.
Do not allow him the freedom of the house unless you're as sure as you can be that he doesn't need to poop. Or pee, for that matter.
You could also try feeding him on and around the spot he's inclined to poop on, for a week or two. They'll often avoid soiling where they eat.
I know this is tough, but you've both got to try as hard as you can not to appear annoyed at him... And they can pick up tiny clues that you are... Because if he's anxious, he's more likely to need to poop in a less controlled fashion.
Remember, he is REVERSE HOUSETRAINED, so you need to make it impossible for him to get any chances to poop in the house from now on. Using a crate, a playpen, and even tying his lead to your waistband at risky times so that he can do nothing with his bladder or bowel without you knowing. Essentially what you're doing, for a few weeks from today, is that you are micro-managing his bladder and bowel. He does, want to get it right... He just doesn't know how just yet. You've got to make this as black and white for him as you possibly can!0 -
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Woohoo! Great to see things are more positive!
Yes to bringing the crate to the bedroom, I'm a huge fan of doing this with pups and new rescue dogs. I didn't want to suggest it as I was afraid of throwing too much at you
Bringing the crate to the bedroom largely negates having to get a playpen, as you're close enough to be able to monitor how he's doing.
I can almost time to within a few mins of when my dogs are going to need to poop, because they're in a routine which only comes about with the passage of time. The same will happen for you. You'll become yet another dog momma who talks openly to anyone who'll listen, about your dog's bowel routines
Just one last thing... You're not cleaning up any accidents with a bleach-based product, are you?0 -
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Hi DBB, I wasn't stupidly. I seemed to forget all I had learned years ago with the new pupper but I bought some special cleaning stuff which is amonia free so have cleaned all his favourite spaces. Will also be feeding him for the next week in his favourite poop spot where the rug used to be.
We have no problem taking the crate into the bedroom, mitzy sleeps in a puddle beside me anyway so used to having them around and will be much easier to make little Ralpher happy if he's close by. Much rather hear his needs than have to clean up lots of waste in the morning.
So just to clarify, we pop him in the crate in the bedroom at night with the door closed right? Then he can let us know when he needs to go? (obviously after taking him out last thing) Do I pop a small bowl of water in there as well? Sorry have never crate trained. Actually having a job keeping Mitzy out of the crate to allow him to use it. Gonna have to get another one at this rate. 0 -
Haha! What is it with terriers and crates? They so often love them
I wouldn't bother with water at night... He'll just knock it over. If he's thirsty, he'll let you know, but by and large, when dogs are sleeping in the bedroom with you, you won't hear a peep from one end of the night til the morning!0 -
Fantastic. Feeling good now and confident. It's just terrifying not knowing right from wrong in terms of training. I just didn't want to make the situation worse.Haha! What is it with terriers and crates? They so often love them
I wouldn't bother with water at night... He'll just knock it over. If he's thirsty, he'll let you know, but by and large, when dogs are sleeping in the bedroom with you, you won't hear a peep from one end of the night til the morning!
Thank you sooo much for the advice. You can't believe the difference it has made to our day and hubby is much happier. Happy hubs, happy dogs = happy life.
Will report back tomorrow on how we've got on. Hoping it's not another call to arms. 0 -
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Sorry one last question to anyone who has had a young male. Do they grow out of that bitey jaw thing that they do? I'm hoping it's normal, you know grabbing ankles etc? He's getting better but just checking it's not going to be a major issue.
You can take it as a rule of thumb that if an animal (including human) is reinforced for doing something, they'll keep doing it. Anything your dog keeps doing is because he's getting some sort of reinforcement from it. The trick to stopping the behaviour is to identify the reinforcer(s), and as far as possible, stop them from happening. This makes the behaviour eventually fade away. If you continue to allow it to happen, there's a strong chance he won't simply grow out of it.
Pups love chasing feet. It's hilarious. What's even funnier is when their victim shrieks, bonus points if they also do a little "don't bite my ankles" dance
Has he got a dollop of collie in him? If so, you can multiply the hilarity of the above by a factor of 100!
So... It's a good idea to come to a complete standstill as he goes to grab ankles. No dancing, no shrieking (it may be advisable to wear old wellies). Then, redirect his chase behaviour onto a toy that you throw for him. Even if you think there's a possibility of ankle-biting, get a toy and let him chase it.
If this simple approach isn't working well enough, you may have to up the ante by keeping a ribbon attached to his collar, and using it to calmly and quietly lead him to a Time Out Zone... But we'll cross that bridge only if you need to. I always attach the warning here that ribbons etc should not be left attached to collars unless there's a human there to supervise.
Do keep toys dotted around that you can easily access, but that he doesn't have constant access to. That way, you are quickly armed should he approach your ankles!0 -
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OMG, I am so glad I asked cos we are currently making it a hilarious game. I have been saying 'No' in a stern voice while stopping and looking at him. (I never shout at him, don't want to scare him). But have also been doing a little dance or shaking him off me. We got lots of chew toys for him cos he's very into chewing. Likes cardboard and stuff. He's not taking shoes or showing interest in furniture anymore as we were calmly saying no and providing an alternative.Sorry one last question to anyone who has had a young male. Do they grow out of that bitey jaw thing that they do? I'm hoping it's normal, you know grabbing ankles etc? He's getting better but just checking it's not going to be a major issue.
You can take it as a rule of thumb that if an animal (including human) is reinforced for doing something, they'll keep doing it. Anything your dog keeps doing is because he's getting some sort of reinforcement from it. The trick to stopping the behaviour is to identify the reinforcer(s), and as far as possible, stop them from happening. This makes the behaviour eventually fade away. If you continue to allow it to happen, there's a strong chance he won't simply grow out of it.
Pups love chasing feet. It's hilarious. What's even funnier is when their victim shrieks, bonus points if they also do a little "don't bite my ankles" dance
Has he got a dollop of collie in him? If so, you can multiply the hilarity of the above by a factor of 100!
So... It's a good idea to come to a complete standstill as he goes to grab ankles. No dancing, no shrieking (it may be advisable to wear old wellies). Then, redirect his chase behaviour onto a toy that you throw for him. Even if you think there's a possibility of ankle-biting, get a toy and let him chase it.
If this simple approach isn't working well enough, you may have to up the ante by keeping a ribbon attached to his collar, and using it to calmly and quietly lead him to a Time Out Zone... But we'll cross that bridge only if you need to. I always attach the warning here that ribbons etc should not be left attached to collars unless there's a human there to supervise.
Do keep toys dotted around that you can easily access, but that he doesn't have constant access to. That way, you are quickly armed should he approach your ankles!
The difference in him already in the last two weeks is fab. All for the better. He's a little dude.0 -
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Crate training is the business.
I think lots of people go into it thinking it's 'cruel' but when you see how much the dogs love it and how useful it can be for training it makes so much sense!!
My last dog was 10 when she got her first crate and we could barely get it up before she was inside taking ownership of it
Well done on your first successful night!!!0 -
Hey guys, sorry but I think feedback can be as invaluable as the advice given. We are now two days pee and poop free. It's like the crate created a whole new different dog. So much so, the terrier won't get out of it so we've ordered one for her at 9 years old. It arrives tomorrow.
We took him to the beach yesterday to let him have a run and work on his recall. We've been doing a lot in the garden and its a beach we know quite well for escape routes, It has a cliff edge but lots of fresh water pools and lots of different types of sand for them to run on. It's a popular dog walking spot so also good for social skills. He wasn't perfect but definitely see an improvement by day. We reckon he's smarter than us.
Thanks again for the all the advice. x0 -
Hi guys, sorry me again.
Crate has worked a treat, both dogs have one now and just love them. Toilet is good, we had an accident the other day but he's now sleeping in his crate with the door open.
So if I could be so bold as to ask for a little additonal help. His mouthing is still happening.
Now he stops when I stop as per instructions. But he's hurting now by just jawing. I can be sat at the counter on my laptop as I am now, he will lie by my feet then suddenly start chompong on my toes.
also when I stop and give no attention and also my husband says the same. He starts biting the achilles heel. It hurts, I have my back to him. Do I squeel or not? So he knows it hurts? Like my other dog does when he hurts her?
Sorry, formative years and easier to get it right now. Thanks so much in advance for all the help. x0 -
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