Budget 2019

mikeecho

So, it looks like the motorist has by and large escaped in this Budget.

No fuel duty increase
No motor tax increase / restructuring

However 1% extra VRT on new diesel vehicles.

I think we got away kinda ok.

ImportMeHappy

Any confirmation whether that 1% is just on new vehicles or also on imported diesel cars? ta

EDIT.. Seems like all cars, from.. http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2019/Documents/2.%20Budget%202019%20Tax%20Policy%20Changes.pdf

"Diesel Surcharge
A 1% VRT surcharge is being brought in for diesel engine passenger
vehicles registering in the State from 1 January 2019."

L1011

Motor tax has frequently been modified the week after the main budget; so I wouldn't consider it out of the woods yet.

Fabio

I think it would have made sense to signal an increase in car tax on older diesels to try and encourage people to switch to cleaner diesels if need be, or to hybrids and electrics if possible.

However, I think an across the board increase in the cost of fuel would have been politically disastrous. A lot of rural FG voters would have been outraged. I'm not a FG voter but I was getting angry even thinking about an increase in fuel costs. Commuting costs a lot as is and with the price of housing these days you often HAVE to commute so you're caught one way or the other...

Leonard Hofstadter

Worth pointing out that the motorist has NOT virtually escaped - some new car models are going to start getting a lot more expensive thanks to the WLTP, which is resulting in CO2 emission increases of up to 15% in some cases even though the car is exactly the same as before. The higher CO2 emissions mean more VRT has to be paid even though the rates are staying the same and obviously the motor tax will be higher for the lifetime of the vehicle as well (even though the EU told member states that the changes should not result in motorists having to pay more).

At least the cost of fuel and tax hasn't been increased (so far).

morritty

L1011 wrote: »

Motor tax has frequently been modified the week after the main budget; so I wouldn't consider it out of the woods yet.

In fairness, it hasn't changed since what 2012? i think we've done very well.

mikeecho

L1011 wrote: »

Motor tax has frequently been modified the week after the main budget; so I wouldn't consider it out of the woods yet.

True.. tomorrow we'll hear about all the unmentioned changes.
But if there were major overhauls planned, it would have been mentioned.

Fingers crossed

mikeecho

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Worth pointing out that the motorist has NOT virtually escaped - some new car models are going to start getting a lot more expensive thanks to the WLTP, which is resulting in CO2 emission increases of up to 15% in some cases even though the car is exactly the same as before. The higher CO2 emissions mean more VRT has to be paid even though the rates are staying the same and obviously the motor tax will be higher for the lifetime of the vehicle as well (even though the EU told member states that the changes should not result in motorists having to pay more).

At least the cost of fuel and tax hasn't been increased (so far).

WLTP increases in tax were going to happen away, my point is, this budget hasn't caused much extra pain.
Diesel sales are down if what I believe is correct.

BIGT4464

Fabio wrote: »

I think it would have made sense to signal an increase in car tax on older diesels to try and encourage people to switch to cleaner diesels if need be, or to hybrids and electrics if possible.

However, I think an across the board increase in the cost of fuel would have been politically disastrous. A lot of rural FG voters would have been outraged. I'm not a FG voter but I was getting angry even thinking about an increase in fuel costs. Commuting costs a lot as is and with the price of housing these days you often HAVE to commute so you're caught one way or the other...

Tax on my efficient 07 Diesel is already 700, I think that is high enough thank you

CJhaughey

morritty wrote: »

In fairness, it hasn't changed since what 2012? i think we've done very well.

Motor Tax is at a point where increasing it will only lead to more people not paying it and risking driving without tax.

Eric Cartman

CJhaughey wrote: »

Motor Tax is at a point where increasing it will only lead to more people not paying it and risking driving without tax.

for pre co2 cars perhaps, if even one person gets on about the 280 band going up to 300 they'll get little sympathy.

Marcusm

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Worth pointing out that the motorist has NOT virtually escaped - some new car models are going to start getting a lot more expensive thanks to the WLTP, which is resulting in CO2 emission increases of up to 15% in some cases even though the car is exactly the same as before. The higher CO2 emissions mean more VRT has to be paid even though the rates are staying the same and obviously the motor tax will be higher for the lifetime of the vehicle as well (even though the EU told member states that the changes should not result in motorists having to pay more).

At least the cost of fuel and tax hasn't been increased (so far).

That's not clear at the moment as there is still a debate within DoF (per the Tax Strategy Group papers released in August) as to whether the rates will be modified. My own hope is that they won't be modified!

kona

BIGT4464 wrote: »

Tax on my efficient 07 Diesel is already 700, I think that is high enough thank you

Efficient 07 diesel.:pac:

bazz26

Motor tax rate changes are usually announced in the budget but usually don't come into affect till 1st January.

firstlight

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Worth pointing out that the motorist has NOT virtually escaped - some new car models are going to start getting a lot more expensive thanks to the WLTP, which is resulting in CO2 emission increases of up to 15% in some cases even though the car is exactly the same as before. The higher CO2 emissions mean more VRT has to be paid even though the rates are staying the same and obviously the motor tax will be higher for the lifetime of the vehicle as well (even though the EU told member states that the changes should not result in motorists having to pay more).

At least the cost of fuel and tax hasn't been increased (so far).

The garage I use has gone up ten cent since start of the year for diesel.

7 euros extra a tank?
Is that not an increase?

mikeecho

firstlight wrote: »

The garage I use has gone up ten cent since start of the year for diesel.

7 euros extra a tank?
Is that not an increase?

Yeah.... Google Brent oil.

You do realise that oil is a traded commodity that fluctuates in price.

firstlight

Fabio wrote: »

I think it would have made sense to signal an increase in car tax on older diesels to try and encourage people to switch to cleaner diesels if need be, or to hybrids and electrics if possible.

However, I think an across the board increase in the cost of fuel would have been politically disastrous. A lot of rural FG voters would have been outraged. I'm not a FG voter but I was getting angry even thinking about an increase in fuel costs. Commuting costs a lot as is and with the price of housing these days you often HAVE to commute so you're caught one way or the other...

Haha
That's a good one,increase tax on older vehicles,you must think people with older cars have money to burn
All diesels are dirty full stop,better of keeping the one you have and looking after it than buying somebody else's dungbox that hasn't been looked after

firstlight

mikeecho wrote: »

Yeah.... Google Brent oil.

You do realise that oil is a traded commodity that fluctuates in price.

No I'm a cabbage and live in a cave

mikeecho

firstlight wrote: »

No I'm a cabbage and live in a cave

Try and get some sunlight.

Zonda999

kona wrote: »

Efficient 07 diesel.:pac:

Such a car is probably doing about 50 mpg average, very efficient I would have said. In reality when you take the fact that diesel cars at this time were less complex and likely didn't have DPF's, that lack of potential trouble can make them a very affordable car to keep on the road, despite the high road tax on many.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/budget-2019-new-and-imported-diesel-cars-hit-with-1-surcharge-on-vrt-1.3655644

A new 1 per cent surcharge on the Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) charged on all new diesel cars - or diesel models imported into the Republic - has been introduced in the Budge

Does this mean used imports will be hit with this?

selectamatic

kona wrote: »

Efficient 07 diesel.:pac:

You can get efficient diesels since around about the mid 80's...

mikeecho

Zonda999 wrote: »

Does this mean used imports will be hit with this?

Yes

firstlight

Zonda999 wrote: »

Such a car is probably doing about 50 mpg average, very efficient I would have said. In reality when you take the fact that diesel cars at this time were less complex and likely didn't have DPF's, that lack of potential trouble can make them a very affordable car to keep on the road, despite the high road tax on many.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/budget-2019-new-and-imported-diesel-cars-hit-with-1-surcharge-on-vrt-1.3655644



Does this mean used imports will be hit with this?

That's it,well said,keep a less problematic car that is higher to tax but actually saves you money in the long run,it's a throw away society we live in,perfect functioning cars been scrapped

68 lost souls

kona wrote: »

Efficient 07 diesel.:pac:

My 05 diesel was more efficient than the hybrid I’m currently driving by about 20% add to that the difference in the price.

The two have the same bhp but the torque was a lot more in the diesel

Idbatterim

I dont think its good, the budget, maybe from a motorist perspective, but from a general good viewpoint, I think its bad. New higher rates of motor tax should be levied and applied to all new fossil fuel cars, particularly diesel. Ideally they would tax fossil fuel cars very high and same with fuel, after around 2022/23 in my opinion, sure even now we are getting into real world practical range with electric, now there might not be a massive choice of car YET. I am also aware not everyone has a driveway, but there are ,multiple solutions to that...

The noise, the emissions from tailpipe, the health hazard of diesel, the sooner the filth is off the road, the better!

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/eamon-ryan-carbon-tax-budget-2019-4277008-Oct2018/

CJhaughey

I said this years ago, when considering the environmental impact of cars its not just the stuff that comes out of the exhaust that is the problem, there is a hell of a lot of embodied energy in a car, from all the manufacturing that goes into the parts plus the assembly and painting. Its actually a lot worse environmentally destroying a perfectly good car than driving it until no longer economically repairable.
If you look at the continent they don't penalise drivers of old cars like they do here, plenty of old and older diesels running around the continent that wouldn't be able to be driven here because of the illogical and scaremongering and blatantly discriminatory behavior of the insurance industry.
Its criminal and for a country that doesn't even make cars its ludicrous.

Zonda999

CJhaughey wrote: »

I said this years ago, when considering the environmental impact of cars its not just the stuff that comes out of the exhaust that is the problem, there is a hell of a lot of embodied energy in a car, from all the manufacturing that goes into the parts plus the assembly and painting. Its actually a lot worse environmentally destroying a perfectly good car than driving it until no longer economically repairable.
If you look at the continent they don't penalise drivers of old cars like they do here, plenty of old and older diesels running around the continent that wouldn't be able to be driven here because of the illogical and scaremongering and blatantly discriminatory behavior of the insurance industry.
Its criminal and for a country that doesn't even make cars its ludicrous.

This is it, and no logical person can possibly disagree with this analysis. However, keeping older cars is no good for "the industry" and "the economy" at large so therefore you'll never such a common sense argument from any lobby group really. Ultimately people buying stuff, no matter what it is, and no matter if its really needed or not, is seen as a good thing, and thats that unfortunately.

I;m currently driving a 06 Passat 1.9 TDi, gives me over 50 mpg on average. Has over 250,000 km on the clock now but is running perfectly and feels like it could do that mileage again no bother. The car is worth essentially nothing (Similar examples online can be found for less than €1500) despite still being relatively modern. Remember that model of Passat was replaced until 2015 so it still has much in common with a 142 example. Sure the road tax is nearly €700 per annum but i've put next to no money into it in the 3 years I've been driving it and I;m sure that 50mpg is still only what I'd get out a similar 2018 Passat.

I've been thinking of replacing it in the next six months with something like a 151 Golf 2.0 TDi but its disappointing to think that my current car will basically be scrapped despite running perfectly, that and the fact there is so much uncertainly regarding the future value of diesels, it makes me question the logic of spending €15,000 on a replacement. No that that is a huge amount of money to spend on a car but still. The worry would have been that the government would decide to lob another 10 cent or something onto the price of diesel but thankfully they have not. Problem with budgets is they happen every year though:pac:

Silvera

Zonda999 wrote: »

This is it, and no logical person can possibly disagree with this analysis. However, keeping older cars is no good for "the industry" and "the economy" at large so therefore you'll never such a common sense argument from any lobby group really. Ultimately people buying stuff, no matter what it is, and no matter if its really needed or not, is seen as a good thing, and thats that unfortunately.

I;m currently driving a 06 Passat 1.9 TDi, gives me over 50 mpg on average. Has over 250,000 km on the clock now but is running perfectly and feels like it could do that mileage again no bother. The car is worth essentially nothing (Similar examples online can be found for less than €1500) despite still being relatively modern. Remember that model of Passat was replaced until 2015 so it still has much in common with a 142 example. Sure the road tax is nearly €700 per annum but i've put next to no money into it in the 3 years I've been driving it and I;m sure that 50mpg is still only what I'd get out a similar 2018 Passat.

I've been thinking of replacing it in the next six months with something like a 151 Golf 2.0 TDi but its disappointing to think that my current car will basically be scrapped despite running perfectly, that and the fact there is so much uncertainly regarding the future value of diesels, it makes me question the logic of spending €15,000 on a replacement. No that that is a huge amount of money to spend on a car but still. The worry would have been that the government would decide to lob another 10 cent or something onto the price of diesel but thankfully they have not. Problem with budgets is they happen every year though:pac:

Buck the trend and keep your Passat. What you might save in annual road tax by changing to a 151 car will be more than eaten up by annual depreciation.

firstlight

Silvera wrote: »

Buck the trend and keep your Passat. What you might save in annual road tax by changing to a 151 car will be more than eaten up by annual depreciation.

Totally agree
Keep your money
Keep the Passat going and look after it

NIMAN

That budget will give diesel cars an extra few years.

I was expecting diesel fuel to be hit with an increase and maybe the road tax increase slightly to try to discourage buyers from looking at diesels.

Not for now anyway.

newmember2

Idbatterim wrote: »

I dont think its good, the budget, maybe from a motorist perspective, but from a general good viewpoint, I think its bad. New higher rates of motor tax should be levied and applied to all new fossil fuel cars, particularly diesel. Ideally they would tax fossil fuel cars very high and same with fuel, after around 2022/23 in my opinion, sure even now we are getting into real world practical range with electric, now there might not be a massive choice of car YET. I am also aware not everyone has a driveway, but there are ,multiple solutions to that...

The noise, the emissions from tailpipe, the health hazard of diesel, the sooner the filth is off the road, the better!

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/eamon-ryan-carbon-tax-budget-2019-4277008-Oct2018/

Yes...let's all go electric and utilise that 'next generation charging infrastructure' the government have just announced funding for...

...oh wait :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

There is no way they would ever do anything drastic , for so many obvious reasons. But going forward, there should be far higher motor tax on petrol and diesel cars ... that way nobody has been “duped”. The exact reason they won’t do anything other than minuscule irrelevant changes to existing car owners ...

Idbatterim

newmember? wrote: »

Yes...let's all go electric and utilise that 'next generation charging infrastructure' the government have just announced funding for...

...oh wait :rolleyes:

That’s government incompetence, you are dealing with morons here. I’m saying as a country and globally, we have to move away from petrol and particularly diesel cars. The quicker the better ... luckily other countries will take action that effects change far quicker than this banana republic .., we don’t even manufacture cars ffs, our idea of our “motoring industry” is a joke. The vast majority of the population concerned about the year of registration and make and the laughable thing is, they are pretty much all still **** cars ...

DaveyDave

€212 extra out of my annual salary, 3 tanks of petrol. Grand stuff. I wonder where all the money will be made up though, USC Increased so under €19k earners not hit, 40% bracket increased €750 etc among many other changes to give citizens more money.

Sierra Oscar

DaveyDave wrote: »

€212 extra out of my annual salary, 3 tanks of petrol. Grand stuff. I wonder where all the money will be made up though, USC Increased so under €19k earners not hit, 40% bracket increased €750 etc among many other changes to give citizens more money.

The main revenue raising measure is from the VAT increase for the tourism and hospitality sector. It'll raise €466m.

I reckon we're extremely lucky to see no changes with the carbon tax. However if you read between the lines in Donohoe's budget speech you can see they were very close to increasing the carbon tax and hiking up excise duty on diesel. The Government are signalling that these changes are coming down the line, I'd say we will see movement on them in Budget 2020.

mattser

35 posts in 10 hours, and no protests outside the Dail, suggests a very successful Budget. Hats off to Paschal.

Lord Nikon

My 3 litre 07 is giving me 40mpg. happy enough with that.