How big and how much to start farming?

lightspeed

Hi all

Firstly I know id need to get some training or benefit from studying agriculture but at the moment im working in a finance job.

I kind of feel like id prefer a job such as farming as i like the idea of working the land and tending to animals. I also much prefer the idea of being self employed.

Im living with my parents and debating whether to try secure a mortgage somewhere in Dublin where i live or look a little further out and get some land that could be used for farming.

So my question is how mow many acres would be needed to turn a make a living wage?

I understand that is kind of like asking how long is a piece of string but generally would 10 acres be as suitable to keeping cattle as it would be to growing vegetables?

how many acres would be needed for a part time farmer to make even a few thousand a year profit?

I understand there are some grants as well but do you need to be farming a large amount of land to obtain grants such as CAP grant?

Never wrestle with pigs

Hard to make anything out of gifted land so to be honest you'd be at Notting.

If you like the country life etc you could look into a house and a few acres of land with it to do what ever you fancy. Keep your good job and grow your own food. Have a few pet lambs for the freezer and a pig or two. A few chickens. What ever tickles your fancy and let's you unwind outside.

But to be honest to try make a living, we are all a generation or two late unfortunately.

older by the day

lightspeed wrote: »

Hi all

Firstly I know id need to get some training or benefit from studying agriculture but at the moment im working in a finance job.

I kind of feel like id prefer a job such as farming as i like the idea of working the land and tending to animals. I also much prefer the idea of being self employed.

Im living with my parents and debating whether to try secure a mortgage somewhere in Dublin where i live or look a little further out and get some land that could be used for farming.

So my question is how mow many acres would be needed to turn a make a living wage?

I understand that is kind of like asking how long is a piece of string but generally would 10 acres be as suitable to keeping cattle as it would be to growing vegetables?

how many acres would be needed for a part time farmer to make even a few thousand a year profit?

I understand there are some grants as well but do you need to be farming a large amount of land to obtain grants such as CAP grant?

First you need advice. A therapist I would think

emaherx

lightspeed wrote: »

Hi all

Firstly I know id need to get some training or benefit from studying agriculture but at the moment im working in a finance job.

I kind of feel like id prefer a job such as farming as i like the idea of working the land and tending to animals. I also much prefer the idea of being self employed.

Im living with my parents and debating whether to try secure a mortgage somewhere in Dublin where i live or look a little further out and get some land that could be used for farming.

So my question is how mow many acres would be needed to turn a make a living wage?

I understand that is kind of like asking how long is a piece of string but generally would 10 acres be as suitable to keeping cattle as it would be to growing vegetables?

how many acres would be needed for a part time farmer to make even a few thousand a year profit?

I understand there are some grants as well but do you need to be farming a large amount of land to obtain grants such as CAP grant?

Training yes, but do you have any experience? Might want to spend time on a working farm before you even consider it.

You feel you might like the lifestyle? Getting into farming will be a huge commitment, and could very well brake you financially, you need a long hard think and forget about the feelings.

How many Acres? This is a tuff one not all acres are equal. Realistically you won't live off less than 100 acres (depends very much on your lifestyle /cost of living too). 10 acres will not bring much profit with cattle.

If considering part time farming you'd need to be looking at over 50 acres (for cattle), if you have a good full time job tax man is taking half your farm income.

Grants/Basic Payments are available, you need entitlements to receive Basic Payments, and these will need to be purchased. Entitlements can have different values and you will need to pay about 3 times their annual worth. (There are changes due To CAP in 2020 and now might not be the best time to purchase entitlements)

Also you need to consider the type of farm Enterprise/system you want to engage in.

To purchase the type of land, with a house and yard you could be looking at an initial investment of over €1,000,000. Of coarse you could lease some land and just purchase a house/yard with a few acres attached

Siamsa Sessions

If you have a degree then you could look at doing the green cert on a part-time basis thru Teagasc. It’d give you a great insight into farming, as well as training in different farm enterprises. Plus you’d have a piece of paper at the end to say you’re a “qualified farmer”. You’d have a good idea at the end of it too as to whether farming is for you or not.

I’m doing the course at the moment. Cost is 2,700 and takes approx. 16 months. Send me a PM if you want to know more.

Farming is great. And would be even better if you could make a living out of it!

_Brian

lightspeed wrote: »

Hi all

Firstly I know id need to get some training or benefit from studying agriculture but at the moment im working in a finance job.

I kind of feel like id prefer a job such as farming as i like the idea of working the land and tending to animals. I also much prefer the idea of being self employed.

Im living with my parents and debating whether to try secure a mortgage somewhere in Dublin where i live or look a little further out and get some land that could be used for farming.

So my question is how mow many acres would be needed to turn a make a living wage?

I understand that is kind of like asking how long is a piece of string but generally would 10 acres be as suitable to keeping cattle as it would be to growing vegetables?

how many acres would be needed for a part time farmer to make even a few thousand a year profit?

I understand there are some grants as well but do you need to be farming a large amount of land to obtain grants such as CAP grant?

So, the truth is that land doesn’t make sufficient profit to make repayments and provide any standard of living never mind a living wage.

Fine if you want to have a small hobby farm but don’t be under any illusions, when farmers say there is no money in farming it’s not code for anything, it’s the truth.

The only gig in town is Daory, amd the scale and investment required makes it prohibitive tombuy your way in from nothing.

Donald Trump

First make a few million in your finance job.

Buy a house, pay off your mortgage and then invest in some things that will provide enough income in the future to fund both your lifestyle and the losses from your farming. A grand big juicy defined benefit pension would be a start.

Then spend the rest on land. Retire and hope that the aforementioned non-farm income stream is sufficient over time to cover your losses.

Profit

(or not)

Donald Trump

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Hard to make anything out of gifted land so to be honest you'd be at Notting.

If you like the country life etc you could look into a house and a few acres of land with it to do what ever you fancy. Keep your good job and grow your own food. Have a few pet lambs for the freezer and a pig or two. A few chickens. What ever tickles your fancy and let's you unwind outside.

Just don't try wrestling them

Siamsa Sessions

_Brian wrote: »

when farmers say there is no money in farming it’s not code for anything, it’s the truth.

100% agree.

We've lost money every year since we re-started farming in 2015. Keeping the show on the road means investing money from off-farm jobs. You could say it's been a hobby up to now, but after 3+ years of investment (infrastructure [mostly fencing], training [green cert], stock, entitlements, machinery, reseeding), we'll tip over into a small profit in 2019.

And by small, I mean less than 1.5k for the year's work before any tax is paid. This also assumes the weather will not be like it was in 2018! That's the semi-optimistic return for an investment of 10k+.

We also have low fixed costs (land is our own) and no debt (savings from off-farm jobs).

I didn't realise margins were so tight when we started. But I've the grá for farming now, so I'm happy to make a small profit for the work involved. It's healthy exercise, keeps you grounded, shows our young lads something different, and is a million miles away from the office job of sitting in front of a screen all day.

kk.man

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

_Brian wrote: »

when farmers say there is no money in farming it’s not code for anything, it’s the truth.

100% agree.

We've lost money every year since we re-started farming in 2015. Keeping the show on the road means investing money from off-farm jobs. You could say it's been a hobby up to now, but after 3+ years of investment (infrastructure [mostly fencing], training [green cert], stock, entitlements, machinery, reseeding), we'll tip over into a small profit in 2019.

And by small, I mean less than 1.5k for the year's work before any tax is paid. This also assumes the weather will not be like it was in 2018! That's the semi-optimistic return for an investment of 10k+.

We also have low fixed costs (land is our own) and no debt (savings from off-farm jobs).

I didn't realise margins were so tight when we started. But I've the grá for farming now, so I'm happy to make a small profit for the work involved. It's healthy exercise, keeps you grounded, shows our young lads something different, and is a million miles away from the office job of sitting in front of a screen all day.

I have to agree totally with all said above. I got off to a slow start too returning in 2012. However last year was an amazing year I retained all my sfp, glas and made a small profit from my sheep and cattle fatting enterprise. I am dreading this year's tax bill tbh as it will eat into my gains and coupled with this year's disaster.

Muckit

_Brian wrote: »

when farmers say there is no money in farming it’s not code for anything, it’s the truth.

Quote of the year!

Farmers sons don't even realise this. "The father was a gob****e sure, he didnt do this that and the other. I'll show 'em...." and fuelled by IFJ articles, Agri shows and Teagasc Open days, the cycle continues!!!!!!

_Brian

Muckit wrote: »

Quote of the year!

Farmers sons don't even realise this. "The father was a gob****e sure, he didnt do this that and the other. I'll show 'em...." and fuelled by IFJ articles, Agri shows and Teagasc Open days, the cycle continues!!!!!!

I had a friend from Dublin staying some time ago and he was looking at calves and weanlings. He just couldn’t fathom that they might only leave €100-200 a head profit. Then of course then next thing he couldn’t understand is why on Earth anyone would be farming when there is so little money to be made, honestly I found it really hard to make a reasoned argument to him.
Then I explained the BPS system and he was flabbergasted by the unfairness and inequity of it, with payments based on two decade old activity.

Sometimes it’s onky when you step back and look at it that the madness that is beef farming is realised.

Track9

Have been away from farming many years & now helping out part time on farm i W Cork.My thoughts are , Unless you have a lot of free, ( not tied up ) cash , strongly advise against borrowing & going straight in . Agree with other good advice above .
Suggest complete Green Cert , it gives a good insight into the business of farming . Consider buying House & few acres to act as home base .
Then if wish to try it out, Rent Land & see how it goes ( very hard to make money on rented land tho mortgage is same situation ) Consider doing some different type of farming . eg. Goats milking ? Add on value eg make ice cream .
/ cheese etc . Snail Farming , i know its not popular , but there seems to be money in it. Need to be different , otherwise you are competing with famers who are very good at what they do & been doing it a long time , some with access to low cost labour (:) Children ) etc