Best defensive boxers of all time

normanoffside

It's probably hard to tell 'all time' given lack of video evidence for old school fighters but who is TBE defensive fighter?

Nicolino Locche
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj-bLfsQSFQ

Sweat Pea Whittaker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw1t2yAK_wU

Ali
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKhWqGNep-s

Roberto Duran
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H237KkHe74

RJJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jRfirEph5w

Floyd Mayweather
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQYeSXpC244


By the way for me it's Pea

Morrison J

Whitaker will always be my favourite. Amazing fighter.

walshb

James Toney, because he was so very offensive whilst in D mode!

FTA69

James Toney, stood straight in front of people in the pocket and doled out punches while completely negating the opponent's offensive. Very few as good as he was. Even as an old, fat man he was doing it.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

James Toney, stood straight in front of people in the pocket and doled out punches while completely negating the opponent's offensive. Very few as good as he was. Even as an old, fat man he was doing it.

It’s why I rate him even better than Floyd and Pea on D

Floyd and Pea both used their feet a lot to defend. Yes, that is part of D, but the real skill I see is being in the firing zone and being able to fight hard whilst defensing. For me, nobody was better than Toney at this..

FTA69

Also I wouldn't call Duran and Jones "defensive" boxers. They had a defence certainly, but it wasn't the crux of their style.

Sprinter Sacre

Sweet Pea is my favourite boxer of all time so I have to pick him but I have a very soft spot for Toney as well. Just a fantastic style he had and had a fantastic view on how you should fight. Seems he's completely fallen off the face of the earth as well as out of the mouths of every Boxing fan but Rigondeaux is another. He's a genius.

normanoffside

FTA69 wrote: »

Also I wouldn't call Duran and Jones "defensive" boxers. They had a defence certainly, but it wasn't the crux of their style.

True, but I have a soft spot for Duran
and he had an excellent underrated defence despite it not being his ‘main thing’

Littlehorny

Going back an age but Willy Pep has to be top 3 in this discussion, you don't get called Willo the wisp for nothing.
Also considering he was a big guy Ali must get a mention.
Two fighters with very underated defences were Duran and Mike Mc Callum, a lot of opponents who they beat up all said it was amazing how hard it was to land a clean shot on them.

normanoffside

Anyway, here's Toney. (I thought I put him in last night)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I_2pAIwuLA

normanoffside

Littlehorny wrote: »

Two fighters with very underated defences were Duran and Mike Mc Callum, a lot of opponents who they beat up all said it was amazing how hard it was to land a clean shot on them.

Great breakdown of McCallum vs Watson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w58KO09kfWs

FTA69

Spoke to Herol Graham about fighting Mike McCallum and he said he was a f*cking disaster and the hardest person he ever fought, and he’s someone Roberto Duran sacked as a sparring partner cos he was too wound up by Herol moving around.

Whoever said Rigondeaux was spot on too, some of the best footwork ever. His defence lay in being two moves ahead and always having his feet in the right place, although he had a habit of getting caught square in a lot of fights and getting sat down.

Try_harder

Mayweather def a great defensive boxer. Rarely got tagged

Littlehorny

Try_harder wrote: »

Mayweather def a great defensive boxer. Rarely got tagged

Very hard to hit alright and lightening reflexes, but he'll always be a smaller brother version of Wladimer Klitchsko to me.

Donald Trump

Depends on how you define defensive I suppose.

If it's just being able to use movement and reflexes not get hit you'd have to give this fella a mention

If you mean it in the sense as keep the hands up, cover up and don't do stupid things then definitely not

megadodge

Donald Trump wrote: »

Depends on how you define defensive I suppose.

If it's just being able to use movement and reflexes not get hit you'd have to give this fella a mention

If you mean it in the sense as keep the hands up, cover up and don't do stupid things then definitely not

At least one long-term poster will blow a gasket at you for having the temerity to mention Hamed on the same thread as a James Toney lovein!

Morrison J

normanoffside wrote: »

True, but I have a soft spot for Duran
and he had an excellent underrated defence despite it not being his ‘main thing’

Depends how you interprete the question. Are we talking the most defensively skilled or the best defensive boxer?

Duran has a strong argument for being the most defensively skilled boxer ever without a doubt. Incredible at rolling with punches and avoiding getting caught flush for an inside fighter.

I think the idea that Whitaker is a pure defensive fighter is a bit of a myth too. Not a power puncher obviously but he was superb offensively. As good a fighter on the inside then he was on the outside.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

I think the idea that Whitaker is a pure defensive fighter is a bit of a myth too. Not a power puncher obviously but he was superb offensively. As good a fighter on the inside then he was on the outside.

I think most fans know how busy and offensive a fighter Pea was. He was very offensive from all angles. Superb jab as well. Very decent inside game; great hooks from both wings in close.

He's an enigma when you think of it because he was so slight, weak looking and not at all physically imposing, yet he managed to outbox you all night.

walshb

BTW, Vasyl Lomachenko will go down as one of the best ever.

His D is ridiculously good.....every inch of his body used....

normanoffside

Morrison J wrote: »

Depends how you interprete the question. Are we talking the most defensively skilled or the best defensive boxer?

I meant best defensively skilled. The ones with the best defence.

Donald Trump

walshb wrote: »

BTW, Vasyl Lomachenko will go down as one of the best ever.

His D is ridiculously good.....every inch of his body used....

Lomachenko brilliant technically. He wouldn't have sprung to mind for me though to name a "defensive boxer" but I can see how you could consider him in that category.

Donald Trump

megadodge wrote: »

At least one long-term poster will blow a gasket at you for having the temerity to mention Hamed on the same thread as a James Toney lovein!

In fairness though, opponents found it very hard to hit him. And they were all light fast little feckers themselves. Hamed was good. Although if I was his coach I'd have been having heart attacks telling him to tidy up. And very entertaining to watch too.

LincolnHawk

Bernard Hopkins had a very crafty defense.
Toney probably my favourite to watch.
Mayweather defense obviously is a thing of beauty.
Prime Roy Jones relied on his reactions but was unhittable until he started slowing down.

walshb

Roy’s defense/instinctive defense was average. Consisted of a high guard, and that was it. His reflexes were his defense. Like Ali..when not using their reflexes their D was average and basic.

I don’t consider them when I think of really good defensive fighters..

FTA69

Hamed? For f*ck's sake. As soon as he stepped up in class he was getting tagged left, right and centre. Kelly knocked him down three times and Barrera beat the sh*t out of him. The only thing he had going for him defensively was his chin.

Ridiculous.

Try_harder

Surely using your reflexes is a good defence?

walshb

Try_harder wrote: »

Surely using your reflexes is a good defence?

It is.....

The discussion is more on what may happen when reflexes slow down.....

For me the real defensive geniuses are those who don't have to rely on feet and reflexes and speed. The ones who have an innate sense for defense and the ability within their body to defend so effortlessly and instinctively when in tough positions, and when not moving away...

Take Nigel Benn. His instinctive D was better than Jones and Ali. His reflexes were not. But when Benn needed to be elusive when under pressure and cornered, his D was very decent. Slipping, ducking, rolling and bending when in the firing range. That is real D.

normanoffside

I think Locche is getting a little over looked here too.
Back in the day when being a world champion really meant something he really dominated world class opponents and held the world title for over 4 years despite being feather fisted. (117-4 with only 14 Knockouts).

He want called ‘untouchale’ for nothing.

Try_harder

Ali was master of the slip and roll tbf, very agile for a big lad.

Hunkering down covering up isnt the optimal defence.

Still go with Floyd

Try_harder

walshb wrote: »

BTW, Vasyl Lomachenko will go down as one of the best ever.

His D is ridiculously good.....every inch of his body used....

100% agree

megadodge

Some of the usual nonsense being spouted here in order to make one particular overrated, fat, loudmouth from the 1990s be considered the best ever in at least one aspect of boxing!

Defense is not getting hit!

"Real" defense is still not getting hit!

If there was a worldwide competition for non-boxers to prove who had the best reflexes and the winner was put in a boxing ring - does anyone realistically think that he would be impossible to hit "because of his reflexes"? He would be battered, because he wouldn't be able to 'read' the situations and even if he eventually recognised them he wouldn't know how to react, where/how to position his body, he wouldn't be able to judge the 'safe' distance and the 'countering' distance, etc. etc. etc.

Ali and Jones in particular were so much more intelligent than their opposition they could usually read any situation before/as it was happening and because of this had a head-start when it came to avoiding incoming offense. However, that intelligence is almost always overlooked and dismissed as 'reflexes'.

walshb

Well, when Roy’s reflexes slowed and he aged we all know what happened. He took a sh1tload of shots, and several knocked him out...his D (when trapped and stationary) consisted of standing straight up with a high guard and hoping not to get tagged clean. And we know it did not work all that well. Look at the fights. And it’s not like he was a shell of a fighter. He was still very good in some of these fights.

Exact same for Ali...only Ali had a rock solid beard.

Reflexes and speed are parts of defense...nobody said otherwise.

When I think of great defenders neither Ali or Jones figure..not saying they could not defend. They absolutely could.

Oh, and by reflexes I don’t think anyone means just reflexes. It’s reflexes related to professional boxers...not reflexes all on its own, that one could apply to any person.

osarusan

Another vote for Toney here.

It's one thing to retreat to the ropes and cover up, it's another to let punches slide by you by a whisker and still be ready to throw a sweet left hand counter.

Incredible judgement of distance and speed, and an ability to never be quite where his opponent wanted him to be.

normanoffside

megadodge wrote: »

Some of the usual nonsense being spouted here in order to make one particular overrated, fat, loudmouth from the 1990s be considered the best ever in at least one aspect of boxing!

I can't believe you're talking about James Toney in this way

The Dagestani Eagle

willie pep

megadodge

The Dagestani Eagle wrote: »

willie pep

But, but, but.... Willie Pep was perpetual motion! He never stayed in one spot, constantly moving on his brilliant feet - and as we all know, that's not 'real' defense! :rolleyes: