Car written off by 3rd party

cardshark · 04-10-2018 9:22am #1

Hi all,

Apologies if this was covered before but I couldn't find an answer.

A friend had their car rear ended, fairly big dent in the back bumper but still driving fine. 3rd party insurance company said repair would be 2k but car is only worth 500.

After some haggling they eventually offered 750 as a final offer but then said they would also be collecting the car and taking it away.

I'm thinking this is incorrect and they have no right to take the car? I was in a similar situation years ago, I just got a cheque and kept the car.

If this was the case, surely you could just refuse the offer and insist that the car is repaired since it wasn't your fault?

Appreciate any information on this!

JJJJNR · 04-10-2018 9:23am

Tell your friend to get legal advice ASAP.

ebbsy · 04-10-2018 9:27am

JJJJNR wrote: »

Tell your friend to get legal advice ASAP.

+1 Very good advice.

Happened to my sister as well. She went to a solicitor and ended up with a decent outcome.

bazz26 · 04-10-2018 9:33am

My understanding is that if they decide to write the car off and a value is settled then they own the vehicle but can deduct it's salvage/scrap value from the settlement amount if the owner wishes to keep and repair the car.

turbot · 04-10-2018 9:39am

"Loss adjusters" use sophisticated tactics to minimise liability - starting with assuming that most people, following a claim, just want to get on with their lives so are likely to accept dissatisfying offers.

Even if the "resale value" of a vehicle is estimated at €500, the utility of a vehicle that is driving well, history known, that has been regularly serviced, is typically much higher for the person because they can't spend €500 in order to achieve same outcome.

Thus, these things should be taken into account. If you involve a solicitor to put together a good argument, you may get a much preferable outcome.

cardshark · 04-10-2018 10:06am

Thanks for the responses so far guys.

If they were to involve a solicitor, would the 3rd party insurance company then be liable to cover the cost of that?

I mean they are happy to now accept the 750 offer, but they definitely want to keep the car. As turbot pointed out, the resale value might be low, the the car has low mileage, and is in perfect working order. You would find it very difficult to find the same car for that price.

coylemj · 04-10-2018 10:33am

What that insurance company is doing is 100% business as usual, they are not pulling a fast one and the OP does not need legal advice. If the OP goes to a solicitor, all he will get for his money will be an explanation of a concept in the world of insurance called 'subrogation' - if I compensate you for a written-off asset by giving you the value of the asset before the event, I am entitled to salvage what is left of it.

In a motor claim where your car is declared a write-off, you can't have the cheque for the pre-accident value of the car and keep the scrapped car because that would (notionally) leave you better off than you were before the accident.

OP needs to make the insurance company an offer for the damaged car i.e. accept less than 750 to hang on to it, otherwise the insurance company is entitled to take it away. The insurance company would sell the car for scrap so they will entertain an offer.

emeldc · 04-10-2018 10:39am

It doesn't sound like your friend is claiming for personal injuries and I commend him for that, as a lot of others would be claiming whether they were injured or not. I would remind the insurance company of this and tell them to stop fcuking around and leave you with the car. It's a €1k claim at most. If you see a solicitor it could easily become €25K.

Thammer · 04-10-2018 10:42am

emeldc wrote: »

It doesn't sound like your friend is claiming for personal injuries and I commend him for that, as a lot of others would be claiming whether they were injured or not. I would remind the insurance company of this and tell them to stop fcuking around and leave you with the car. It's a €1k claim at most. If you see a solicitor it could easily become €25K.

I wouldn't be saying any of that to insurance

Eggs For Dinner · 04-10-2018 10:49am

emeldc wrote:

It doesn't sound like your friend is claiming for personal injuries and I commend him for that, as a lot of others would be claiming whether they were injured or not. I would remind the insurance company of this and tell them to stop fcuking around and leave you with the car. It's a â‚¬1k claim at most. If you see a solicitor it could easily become â‚¬25K.

It's a â‚¬500 car and they've offered â‚¬750. How is that fcuking the OP around? If there is an injury, claim for it. If there isn't, don't try and blackmail the insurers.

If this was a claim against you, would you accept your insurer paying â‚¬1,000 for a â‚¬500 car? Would you be happy that your insurer is obliged to keep the claim "open" for an extended period because injuries were mentioned?

emeldc · 04-10-2018 11:02am

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

It's a €500 car and they've offered €750. How is that fcuking the OP around? If there is an injury, claim for it. If there isn't, don't try and blackmail the insurers.

If this was a claim against you, would you accept your insurer paying €1,000 for a €500 car? Would you be happy that your insurer is obliged to keep the claim "open" for an extended period because injuries were mentioned?

The OP can't buy the same car for €750. That's not been taken into account. As for if the claim was against me, I'd be delirious that the OP wasn't going for personal injuries. TBH the 3rd party is being very naive. They should be trying to fix it up themselves. The insurance co could get it all back on the first renewal.

MarkR · 04-10-2018 11:08am

If the car is beyond economic repair, then they either take the cash and hand back the keys, or they don't get it repaired. Are they planning a repair of some sort? If not, they would be up 750, and still with their car.

coylemj · 04-10-2018 11:09am

emeldc wrote: »

The OP can't buy the same car for €750. That's not been taken into account.

It doesn't need to be 'taken into account', it's a feature of every write-off situation where the owner never gets what he thinks his car is worth.

We all think our car is worth more than an average car of the same age. The wake-up call comes either when we go to sell it or if it gets written off and the insurance company offers us well below what we think it was worth.

AvonEnniskerry · 04-10-2018 11:19am

My understanding is if your claiming off your own insurance they payout and take possession of the vehicle. However if It's someone else who caused the accident and their insurance pays out then you can keep the car and the cost of the payout. At least this used to be the case.

cardshark · 04-10-2018 11:27am

Thank you all for contributing to the thread.
It's correct that the friend is not making any sort of personal injury claim.

When the exact same situation happened to me in the past, I got what the insurance company valued the write off at and there was no mention of taking the car away. This was around 500 as I remember but it's strange that there was no talk of taking the car back then.

So the insurance company are legally allowed to refuse to repair the car as it would cost more than the car is worth? I presume they would be pricing the repairs from a main dealer of some sort?
What if you said you could get the car repaired cheaper and wanted to get it repaired yourself? Shouldn't they be giving you that money and letting you keep the car?

At the end of the day, someone crashed into you. Now you are being offered around the value of the car if purchasing privately from the likes of done deal etc. but must give the insurance company your car.
You are then without a car and have the hassle of purchasing a new one when the cheque actually comes and clears into your account.

This just sounds very unfair to me.

coylemj - You mentioned that they can make the insurance company an offer? So you could say to them - I'll take 400 and keep the car? I think my friend mentioned they offered nothing if they were to keep it, which again just sounds very unfair.

coylemj · 04-10-2018 12:04pm

cardshark wrote: »

coylemj - You mentioned that they can make the insurance company an offer? So you could say to them - I'll take 400 and keep the car? I think my friend mentioned they offered nothing if they were to keep it, which again just sounds very unfair.

That doesn't sound right. The insurance company would have the job of getting rid of the car by selling it for scrap whereas getting the owner to accept a lower settlement means they close the case with the cheque.

As a matter of interest since the valuation is being discussed, what is the make, year and model of the car?

Eggs For Dinner · 04-10-2018 12:13pm

cardshark wrote: »

At the end of the day, someone crashed into you. Now you are being offered around the value of the car if purchasing privately from the likes of done deal etc. but must give the insurance company your car.
You are then without a car and have the hassle of purchasing a new one when the cheque actually comes and clears into your account.

This just sounds very unfair to me.

coylemj - You mentioned that they can make the insurance company an offer? So you could say to them - I'll take 400 and keep the car? I think my friend mentioned they offered nothing if they were to keep it, which again just sounds very unfair.

You can't make a profit from insurance, even as the victim of an accident. What's unfair about being paid more than it's worth? As for your suggestion of taking €400 and keeping the car, the insurer should accept this if it is a Cat C or D write off. They can't do it for a Cat A or B write off, as they are obliged to ensure it doesn't go back on the road

Personally, I wouldn't hang on to the salvage, as you'll need to get an engineer's report to insure it again

Eggs For Dinner · 04-10-2018 12:16pm

cardshark wrote: »

If they were to involve a solicitor, would the 3rd party insurance company then be liable to cover the cost of that?

.

On this point, if the car is worth €500 and you were offered €750, you would have to foot the bill for a solicitor if they were unable to establish that €750 was below the true market value

cardshark · 04-10-2018 12:30pm

coylemj - 02 5 door Polo, 90k miles, fresh NCT. Regularly serviced and running perfectly.

Eggs For Dinner - To address your point - the car is yours, has been yours for years. You have looked after it, serviced it, and know the engine and everything else is in perfect order. You then get offered money which you may get a similar car from a private seller for, how are you going to know if everything has been looked after, services regularly etc? Not only that, but you have the hassle of being without a car, waiting for the cheque to come and clear and then actually looking for a new car. That's what I find unfair. I never said they were offered more than the car is worth.

So say they offer to take 400 and keep the car as it's cat C or D, the insurance company just say no. What bargaining chip do you have?

Eggs For Dinner · 04-10-2018 12:59pm

cardshark wrote: »

So say they offer to take 400 and keep the car as it's cat C or D, the insurance company just say no. What bargaining chip do you have?

As long as you match the offer from the salvagers, they should be happy to let you keep it. They can't force you to hand over our car, as long as it s Cat C or D.

Bottom line is that this incident is silly low money as far as they are concerned and the quicker they get it finalised, the happier they are. However, they are obliged to ensure it is not more than is reasonable

coylemj · 04-10-2018 1:41pm

cardshark wrote: »

coylemj - 02 5 door Polo, 90k miles, fresh NCT. Regularly serviced and running perfectly.

There's 18 x 2002 Polos for sale on donedeal at the moment priced between 500 and 2,000. 12 of them are priced below 750. The best of those has to be as good as or better than your friend's car. If you lower the floor price, there's a few available for 300 or so.

Eggs For Dinner · 04-10-2018 3:18pm

coylemj wrote:

There's 18 x 2002 Polos for sale on donedeal at the moment priced between 500 and 2,000. 12 of them are priced below 750. The best of those has to be as good as or better than your friend's car. If you lower the floor price, there's a few available for 300 or so.

Add in to that the fact sellers will accept a lower price than initially advertised for, making the final amount the true market value for a cash buyer

mgbgt1978 · 04-10-2018 9:49pm

coylemj wrote: »

There's 18 x 2002 Polos for sale on donedeal at the moment priced between 500 and 2,000. 12 of them are priced below 750. The best of those has to be as good as or better than your friend's car. If you lower the floor price, there's a few available for 300 or so.

How many of these have a fairly genuine 90k and a fresh NCT ?
If there are more than one then the average asking price is the minimum the OP should be demanding. That's before he even looks at Carzone.....

You and I both know that Insurers use gobsh!te Companies to trawl DD, etc to come up with the cheapest Ads that even vaguely resemble the OP's Car and that is their 1st compensation offer.

coylemj · 04-10-2018 11:04pm

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

How many of these have a fairly genuine 90k and a fresh NCT ?

You can quickly search donedeal where you'll get your answer.

Hint: several cars in the 600 ballpark with 6-9 months NCT remaining.

mgbgt1978 · 05-10-2018 7:00pm

None of which are anyway near the low mileage the OP had....and none of which have a fresh (that would be 12 months) NCT.

This one (only just up on DD) is a lot closer to what the OP had;
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/new-nct-today-super-low-miles/20005489

...asking €1k. New NCT. 70K. Maybe VMS, etc could take try looking at something like this instead of being paid to scrape the bottom of the Barrel.

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Car written off by 3rd party

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