Strange noises when I light fireplace

gagnakureki

Hi there,
I am living in an apartment in Dublin that has a pretty old fireplace. When I light a fire everything seems to be fine but pretty much always when the fire is going out I start hearing these strange noises that sound like water boiling. And some banging noises that come from around the fireplace and from up towards the ceiling.

When I moved in I got a chimney cleaner to take a look and he said the chimney was fine and that I could use the fireplace. I am a bit worried about these noises though.
Does anyone here have any idea what might be causing this and how I could possibly fix this?

chuck eastwood

gagnakureki wrote: »

Hi there,
I am living in an apartment in Dublin that has a pretty old fireplace. When I light a fire everything seems to be fine but pretty much always when the fire is going out I start hearing these strange noises that sound like water boiling. And some banging noises that come from around the fireplace and from up towards the ceiling.

When I moved in I got a chimney cleaner to take a look and he said the chimney was fine and that I could use the fireplace. I am a bit worried about these noises though.
Does anyone here have any idea what might be causing this and how I could possibly fix this?

Probably a back boiler with no pump or faulty pump/stat. The water is close to boiling but going nowhere. Get a plumber in before it does some damage

gagnakureki

chuck eastwood wrote: »

Probably a back boiler with no pump or faulty pump/stat. The water is close to boiling but going nowhere. Get a plumber in before it does some damage

Thanks for your reply. Now this is probably going to sound daft, but where would this pump be located? I can see that there is a metal box right inside the fireplace which I assume has some water in it that is boiling up. I have no idea where this pump might be though?

chuck eastwood

gagnakureki wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. Now this is probably going to sound daft, but where would this pump be located? I can see that there is a metal box right inside the fireplace which I assume has some water in it that is boiling up. I have no idea where this pump might be though?

The boiler is in the actual fireplace itself. Looking directly at it you just see the front if it where the main flame hits. Can you open the box? Could the pump be inside it ? Post a photo or two if you can. The stat if there is one will be on the pipe usually within a meter of the fire. Follow that pipe to find the pump

NickNickleby

I'm not a plumber.

This sounds like there's a back-boiler in the fireplace. If its very old, it might just be for providing hot water. Before lighting the fire again clean it out and remove the firebasket - the part that holds the burning coal. See can you see a kind of vent low down at the back, which funnels very hot air from the fire up the back of the boiler. If you can see that, then I would expect that there's a thing called a 'damper' up higher. This damper is a flat plate that covers the top and back of the back-boiler, and when pulled forward allows the hot air from the fire to heat the back-boiler. When pushed back in, it blocks the flow, so the heat is instead thrown out into the living room. If the damper is pulled forward all the time (or even missing altogether), the back-boiler can boil like a kettle. I would be concerned about this. In the most extreme case, if there's a problem it could actually explode. In truth, I've only heard of one case of this happening, and that was nearly 40 years ago.

The damper plate usually has a hook protruding towards you, and that hook could be gripped and the damper moved in and out as required. (it gets very hot).

If you can, clear out the fireplace and take photos, including up the chimney and post them here.

Now the short version : get a plumber to look at this for your own safety.

I might be over dramatic here, so hopefully a plumber will be along to offer more, and expert, advice.

Edit : whoops, I'm so slow at typing, other advice similar to mine was already posted, without the drama.

wexie

gagnakureki wrote: »

I have no idea where this pump might be though?

If there's a room behind the wall with the fireplace check for pipes in there.

Pump might look something like this with pipes coming out of it (or technically one going in and one coming out)

gagnakureki

chuck eastwood wrote: »

The boiler is in the actual fireplace itself. Looking directly at it you just see the front if it where the main flame hits. Can you open the box? Could the pump be inside it ? Post a photo or two if you can. The stat if there is one will be on the pipe usually within a meter of the fire. Follow that pipe to find the pump

Here are some pictures from the fireplace. As you can see there is a metal box there. I cannot for the life of myself find that water pump. It doesn't seem to be anywhere near the fireplace nor in the apartment so I am starting to suspect that it might somewhere else in the building in another apartment.
Also, the side that is right behind the fireplace is an outside wall, I didn't see anything there either indicating a water pump or pipes...

Doctors room ghost

That back boiler will go off like a bomb if it’s getting a fire and the water has nowhere to go due to a faulty pump or thermostat.get it checked by a plumber.if she blows it will do serious damage and it’s very dangerous.you will also be getting no return on your fire as the boiler is pulling in the heat and not sending it anywhere.

JamesM

There are probably 2 scenarios here:
1/ This is an old house converted to apartments and, when the conversion was done, the back boiler should have been decommissioned with holes drilled in the back boiler. If this has been done, there should be no danger.
2/ The apartment was built with a back boiler and it should be heating the water and maybe radiators. If this is the case, there should be pipes and, probably, a pump behind a wooden panel beside the fireplace. A pump could also be situated below the floorboards close to the fireplace - you would find loose boards.
A plumber should check it out.
Jim.

jmBuildExt

Had something similar in an old house I had before. But as mentioned above, it was decommisioned and replaced with Gas central heating. The boiler was emptied and had holes drilled in it.

Tip for looking for the pump: look out for a random switch on the wall, often low down, that doesn't seem to control any lights or anything, may be fused or have neon indicator.

Be careful, when i went to remove mine, the pump had been removed, and the lead left flying from the wall, under the floorboards, live!

gagnakureki

Had a plummer come around. He couldn't find the pump either. Does anyone recommend a plumber in south Dublin that could possibly be of any help?

jmBuildExt

Why do you want to find the pump? You dont hope to use it as a back boiler again, do you?
Pump may already be long gone - you need someone to get access to the back and ensure it has been de-commissioned.

NickNickleby

Hi folks,

Just to say, and remember I'm speaking in an unqualified capacity here.....

grew up in a Corporation house built in the 1960's. Hot water was provided by the backboiler in the fireplace. There was no pump associated with it.

I don't remember any mention of the cylinder having a coil in it. If that's correct, (and bear in mind I was only 10, so memory could be hazy but only on this aspect), then I imagine its possible to completely empty the attic tank through the back boiler. I say this because there was no second tank in the attic, to keep the back boiler topped up.

I suppose in modern parlance, it could have been described as a form of direct water heating, but with storage:D.

It might be useful to mention this to a plumber, in case they're all too young to have encountered this kind of set up.

JamesM

Dauntless seems to be a very old make of solid fuel stoves and back boilers, so probably this is an old house and hopefully the back boiler was decommissioned when it was turned into apartments.

JamesM

NickNickleby wrote: »

Hi folks,

Just to say, and remember I'm speaking in an unqualified capacity here.....

grew up in a Corporation house built in the 1960's. Hot water was provided by the backboiler in the fireplace. There was no pump associated with it.

I don't remember any mention of the cylinder having a coil in it. If that's correct, (and bear in mind I was only 10, so memory could be hazy but only on this aspect), then I imagine its possible to completely empty the attic tank through the back boiler. I say this because there was no second tank in the attic, to keep the back boiler topped up.

I suppose in modern parlance, it could have been described as a form of direct water heating, but with storage:D.

It might be useful to mention this to a plumber, in case they're all too young to have encountered this kind of set up.

I think that your memory is fine. I remember a house where the water came from the attic tank to the back boiler and then up to the hot water cylinder (no coil) and out the tap. If it got too hot you ran off some hot water (or decided it was bath night)

NickNickleby

JamesM wrote: »

I think that your memory is fine. I remember a house where the water came from the attic tank to the back boiler and then up to the hot water cylinder (no coil) and out the tap. If it got too hot you ran off some hot water (or decided it was bath night)

Ah yes, all those unwanted baths. I was a divil for bringing in the toy submarines and anything that could float, and replenishing the hot water when it cooled a bit. And none of those rubbish plastic baths, real enamelled bath.

Sorry OP for derailing the thread. Remember to mention this information (about the attic tank possibly feeding the hot tank via the back boiler) to your plumber.

Dtp1979

I’m surprised the plumber you got out couldn’t identify what was going on. Harmless plumber.
Its a weird back boiler. When it was lit, did you have loads of hot water in your cylinder.
I’m half afraid it’s blanked off and a time bomb.. get a decent plumber in