Primera Bankruptcy

Shn99

Been reported that Primera are expected to file for bankruptcy. https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/primera-air/breaking-primera-air-nordic-and-primera-air-scandinavia-will-file-for-bankruptcy-tomorrow/

LeakRate

All Stansted based A/C have been impounded by the airport authority with the scheduled flights cancelled.

Locker10a

Very sad, especially considering a lot of the monarch staff at BHX who lost their jobs exactly a year ago went to work for them

Shn99

Statement from PRI
https://primeraair.com/travel-alert/

EchoIndia

These will be the first A321 NEOs to be returned to their lessons. I wonder if it will take time for them to find new homes.

Locker10a

EchoIndia wrote: »

These will be the first A321 NEOs to be returned to their lessons. I wonder if it will take time for them to find new homes.

Doubt it! Are all their aircraft leased ?

EchoIndia

Locker10a wrote: »

Doubt it! Are all their aircraft leased ?

https://www.planespotters.net/production-list/search?fleet=Primera-Air-Scandinavia&fleetStatus=current

jjbrien

Sad indeed but when they cancelled all their BHX to the states flights it was a warning sign.

kevinandrew

Sad for the staff but such a poorly managed and overly ambitious airline was always going to end up this way. I feel especially bad for the former Monarch staff who moved to Primera, a year to the day since its collapse just to add salt to the wounds.

Tenzor07

Wow, Monarch, Primera, maybe Norwegian Air next?

JCX BXC

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Wow, Monarch, Primera, maybe Norwegian Air next?

Wow?

galwaybabe

My daughter was due to fly to the US with them on Friday. Total pain in the ass and pocket to sort it out. Does anyone know if I can claim refund? I know in the UK that people who booked with credit card can make claim if flight was over £100. Is it a similar situation here in Ireland?

Tenzor07

JCX BXC wrote: »

Wow?

As in OMG, not the airline!

jjbrien

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Wow, Monarch, Primera, maybe Norwegian Air next?

Doubt it Norwegian own a bank in Norway and have been turning things around. I wonder will Ryanair be next all the strikes etc are starting to take a toll. I dont want to see any airline go bust its a hard thing on the staff and passengers. Wow air havent gone bust either.

Nonoperational

Ryanair? The next airline to go bust? Extremely extremely extremely unlikely.

circular flexing

I was flying out of Boston on Sunday night (5pm local so 10pm in Ireland/11pm in Europe) and there was a Primera plane on the apron. Wonder if it's still there.

JCX BXC

Nonoperational wrote: »

Ryanair? The next airline to go bust? Extremely extremely extremely unlikely.

Exactly.

You may as well be forecasting the demise of IAG, KLM/AF or the American big 3, they're simply too big of a monster to sink with a few minor issues

jjbrien

JCX BXC wrote: »

Nonoperational wrote: »

Ryanair? The next airline to go bust? Extremely extremely extremely unlikely.

Exactly.

You may as well be forecasting the demise of IAG, KLM/AF or the American big 3, they're simply too big of a monster to sink with a few minor issues

Not really remember Pan am? People thought they were to big to go bust and they did. Different circumstances. But I doubt Ryanair IAG or Norwegian will. With the latter I would see a takeover by IAG or luftansasa/SAS

JCX BXC

jjbrien wrote: »

Not really remember Pan am? People thought they were to big to go bust and they did. Different circumstances. But I doubt Ryanair IAG or Norwegian will. With the latter I would see a takeover by IAG or luftansasa/SAS

Note the word minor.

Gael23

galwaybabe wrote: »

My daughter was due to fly to the US with them on Friday. Total pain in the ass and pocket to sort it out. Does anyone know if I can claim refund? I know in the UK that people who booked with credit card can make claim if flight was over £100. Is it a similar situation here in Ireland?

You can try and get a refund but it might be difficult. Your travel insurance would be the best option,

Tenger

jjbrien wrote: »

Doubt it Norwegian own a bank in Norway and have been turning things around. I wonder will Ryanair be next all the strikes etc are starting to take a toll. I dont want to see any airline go bust its a hard thing on the staff and passengers. Wow air havent gone bust either.

Not a chance. The strikes have put a small dent in their yearly profits, thats it.
Primera were an airline with no physical assets who had run into problems as they raised loans to pay for aircraft (A320neo) which were late on delivery and thus were not actively paying off their interest and/or adding cash to the books.

Which is actually similar to the onging problems for Norwegian. They raised massive loans for their B787 and B737 orders but delays in delivery and the need to lease in aircraft (Hi-Fly A380 for example) mean that their planned revenue is a lot less than expected. The depth of their investors pockets really determines how long they can hold on before folding. Primera didnt have the depth that they needed. Norwegian may or may not but with IAG sniffing around they could get a large boost in the near future, assuming their assets dont start delivering results in the meantime.

jjbrien wrote: »

Not really remember Pan am? People thought they were to big to go bust and they did. Different circumstances. But I doubt Ryanair IAG or Norwegian will. With the latter I would see a takeover by IAG or luftansasa/SAS

Pan Am was a different situation. It was seen as an iconic company and thus invulnerable. In reality it had lots of cash tied up in those 'iconic' aircraft and routes, its had a low yield factor with high running costs.
The spiral began with the oil crisis of the mid 70's. Their attempt to get a domestic route network by buying another airline in the 80's cost a huge amount of money and never actually realised the original aim. This left it in a weak position throughout the decade, unable to buy new more efficient aircraft to operate its routes.
The final kick to the head was the invasion of Kuwait in late 1990. This started a surge in oil prices along with a drop in US international travel. Both deathblows to PanAm.

DOCARCH

Tenger wrote: »

Both deathblows to PanAm.

....and Lockerbie, in 1988, did not help matters!

basill

The problem for Norwegian is if they keep turning away IAGs advances then the shares will inevitably tank, investor confidence will wane and any debt covenants that may have been linked to share price/performance could sink them. Also fuel is increasing and winter is upon us. A perfect storm for any highly leveraged airline to go boom.

jjbrien

basill wrote: »

The problem for Norwegian is if they keep turning away IAGs advances then the shares will inevitably tank, investor confidence will wane and any debt covenants that may have been linked to share price/performance could sink them. Also fuel is increasing and winter is upon us. A perfect storm for any highly leveraged airline to go boom.

True but they claim other investors are interested so we would have to see. Every year people post on here that Norwegian will go bust etc but they seem to hang in there. I am all for choice. I was tempted to try premieria glad i didnt now. Theres a great article in wired today about it https://www.wired.co.uk/article/primera-airline-going-bust-economics-budget-carriers

It seems the british goverment is going to do an enquiry into them as well as there seems to have been some dodgy stuff going on in the few months up to this bankruptcy. Cancelling flights with a few hours notice and not refunding the money is one thing I seen online and this was way before closing up shop. Shocking stuff if its true.

rivegauche

They had 10 737s.
Ryanair trying to court Primera pilots.
https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/categorie/2/airlines/ryanair-aast-op-piloten-failliet-primera-air

Not making this a Ryanair story...when an airline fails the staff usually find new jobs, the planes get re-assigned to other airlines. If the routes were any good they get serviced by another operator.
The net effect is that apart from a massive destruction of wealth for the investors the suffering isn't huge and the investors are big boys and girls and should suck it up.

Compare this as a career with for example being a glass blower in a south east Irish small town.