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Assisted Suicide

  • 26-09-2018 8:34pm
    #1
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ mzungu


    A recent study found that Americans are slightly more accepting of suicide today than they were in the 1980s. However, the vast majority still disapprove, but many will allow it in cases where a person is suffering from an incurable disease. Back in the 1980s 46.9% agreed with assisted suicide in those circumstances, that has now risen to 61.4%.

    Interestingly, researchers believe the increased acceptance is down to a more educated population. They suggest that acceptability of suicide is greater among the highly educated (could also be the conclusion of other studies although I am not sure).

    Thoughts?

    Link: https://psmag.com/news/americans-attitudes-toward-suicide-are-softening


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭ Lorddrakul


    I think in a civilised world, if a person is in full possession of their faculties and makes the decision that their quality of life is such that they no longer wish to carry on living, then it is cruel to make them do so.

    Furthermore, it is immature as a society to seek to punish someone who provides assistance to a person in such a situation if they have a reduced capacity.

    I think as we mature as a society, we will come to see this as acceptable, so long as there are safeguards there, as well as support and assistance to ensure that people are making and informed choice.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ mzungu


    Lorddrakul wrote: »
    I think in a civilised world, if a person is in full possession of their faculties and makes the decision that their quality of life is such that they no longer wish to carry on living, then it is cruel to make them do so.

    Furthermore, it is immature as a society to seek to punish someone who provides assistance to a person in such a situation if they have a reduced capacity.

    I think as we mature as a society, we will come to see this as acceptable, so long as there are safeguards there, as well as support and assistance to ensure that people are making and informed choice.
    I agree. It makes little sense to allow people to suffer needlessly if they wish to exit at an earlier stage. The question is should it also need to extended to those with chronic mental health illnesses

    At the start of the summer, the worlds oldest working scientist Dr David Goodall made headlines when he availed of the option to die with dignity in Basle. By turning a wheel he administered a lethal injection into his arm (listening to Beethoven as he did it). It was his belief that everybody over middle age should have the right to be assisted in ending their life when they choose. Even if they have absolutely nothing wrong with them. In one sense you could say that it gives everybody autonomy, in another you could also argue that it could cheapen life.

    Nevertheless, assisted suicide for the sick should be brought in, but it may take a while before we see it here. As it stands, I believe the state stops people travelling abroad for assisted suicide (the Marie Fleming case), this is wrong and should be rectified.


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    mzungu wrote: »
    They suggest that acceptability of suicide is greater among the highly educated
    Not surprising.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,353 Mod ✭✭✭✭ byhookorbycrook


    I take a medication that can have ,at best,seriously disabling side effects and at worse death. I'm also a horse owner. It's odd that, if his life gets badly impaired, that he can be destroyed, but mine can't.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,482 ✭✭✭ wexie


    I take a medication that can have ,at best,seriously disabling side effects and at worse death. I'm also a horse owner. It's odd that, if his life gets badly impaired, that he can be destroyed, but mine can't.

    And not only that....for the horse it would be considered to be the 'humane' thing to do....Wrap your head around that one

    :confused:


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,366 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Fathom


    In America state laws differ. "On October 27, 1997, Oregon enacted the Death with Dignity Act which allows terminally-ill Oregonians to end their lives through the voluntary self-administration of lethal medications, expressly prescribed by a physician for that purpose." California's physician-assisted suicide law is overturned — for now.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    In America state laws differ. "On October 27, 1997, Oregon enacted the Death with Dignity Act which allows terminally-ill Oregonians to end their lives through the voluntary self-administration of lethal medications, expressly prescribed by a physician for that purpose." California's physician-assisted suicide law is overturned — for now.

    IIRC it is still listed as homicide in American law (open to correction on this) if a person assists another in dying (lay person or physician). However, the framework allows for lawful homicide (in certain places) and would come under justifiable or excusable homicide. In other countries, this is definitely not the case and it is a legal minefield (understandably). It is legal in some countries, but in the majority it is not. Not yet anyway. Hopefully soon though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,009 ✭✭✭✭ Graces7


    it is all too easy to abuse.

    Island Anchorhold..

    islandanchorhold.blogspot.com



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Black Swan


    In America there have been frequent legal disputes over when do you turn off the machines that may be keeping flat-liner's bodies alive?


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    Black Swan wrote: »
    In America there have been frequent legal disputes over when do you turn off the machines that may be keeping flat-liner's bodies alive?
    US Supreme Court cases?


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ mzungu


    Black Swan wrote: »
    In America there have been frequent legal disputes over when do you turn off the machines that may be keeping flat-liner's bodies alive?
    Fathom wrote: »
    US Supreme Court cases?

    Does this happen in cases where the family want to keep the person alive, even if it was against their wishes?

    I have no issue with assisted suicide, as long as appropriate checks and balances are in place.


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    mzungu wrote: »
    Does this happen in cases where the family want to keep the person alive, even if it was against their wishes?
    Sometimes family either wishes to keep patient alive, or unplug. Special religious, social, and political interests groups get involved too, either for or against. Then there are state laws that affect decisions of this sort, either for or against, and their interpretation by courts, law enforcement, city, county, state administration's policies and procedures. The list goes on.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Sometimes family either wishes to keep patient alive, or unplug. Special religious, social, and political interests groups get involved too, either for or against. Then there are state laws that affect decisions of this sort, either for or against, and their interpretation by courts, law enforcement, city, county, state administration's policies and procedures. The list goes on.

    The issue still gets used as a political football. A great shame. When this happens the patient at the centre of it fades to the background while special interest groups take centre stage.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,366 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Fathom


    mzungu wrote: »
    The issue still gets used as a political football. A great shame. When this happens the patient at the centre of it fades to the background while special interest groups take centre stage.
    Like war? Patient become collateral damage?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Like war? Patient become collateral damage?

    Pretty much yes. The individual can sometimes become something of a background player.


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    mzungu wrote: »
    Pretty much yes. The individual can sometimes become something of a background player.
    More so. Approaching 2020.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    More so. Approaching 2020.

    Agreed.


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    Sad commentary.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Sad commentary.

    We haven't heard the last of it, not by a long shot. Although an issue such as this is a slow burner (just from observation) and it won't ever be any kind of massive social movement for obvious reasons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭ jaxxx


    A dog is suffering from an untreatable condition which reduces its quality life to all but zero: euthanise.

    A human is suffering from a similar condition: nah sorry mate, gotta postpone your misery because of.. .. .. reasons, ya know?



    Oh we are a bright lot aren't we.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ mzungu


    jaxxx wrote: »
    A dog is suffering from an untreatable condition which reduces its quality life to all but zero: euthanise.

    A human is suffering from a similar condition: nah sorry mate, gotta postpone your misery because of.. .. .. reasons, ya know?



    Oh we are a bright lot aren't we.

    It is a delicate topic for sure. But slowly moves are being made to introduce it it the USA, but I think it could be a while before it would be considered on these shores.


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    mzungu wrote: »
    It is a delicate topic for sure. But slowly moves are being made to introduce it it the USA, but I think it could be a while before it would be considered on these shores.
    State of Oregon. The Death with Dignity Act (DWDA).


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    State of Oregon. The Death with Dignity Act (DWDA).

    A good start!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,498 ✭✭✭ 54and56


    mzungu wrote: »
    It is a delicate topic for sure. But slowly moves are being made to introduce it it the USA, but I think it could be a while before it would be considered on these shores.

    Divorce, equal marriage and abortion have all been approved by referrendum, assisted suicide, for me, is the last great reform needed to truly become a civilised society and a real republic.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,366 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Fathom


    54&56 wrote: »
    Divorce, equal marriage and abortion have all been approved by referrendum, assisted suicide, for me, is the last great reform needed to truly become a civilised society and a real republic.
    There's religious opposition to assisted suicide. Difficult to overcome for those interested in this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,498 ✭✭✭ 54and56


    Fathom wrote: »
    There's religious opposition to assisted suicide. Difficult to overcome for those interested in this.

    There was significant religious opposition to divorce, equal marriage and particularly abortion.

    My view is that religious opposition to Assisted Suicide, which would be an act of kindness to assuage intolerable pain and suffering and thus allow people of clear mind some dignity in death, would be far less than it was for abortion once the merits of such a change were presented in a clear fact based manner.

    Archbishop Desmond Tutu is a good example of how caring rather than fundamentalist christian's can see beyond the black and white of simplistic commandments to see how allowing terminally ill people some comfort at the end of their life can actually be the (modern) christian thing to do.

    Terminally ill people ‘should have right to choose a dignified assisted death’, writes archbishop on his 85th birthday.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,366 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Fathom


    In the States today there are exceptions like Oregon. It will take decades for all 50.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭ tea and coffee


    https://www.thejournal.ie/dutch-doctor-case-euthanasia-dementia-4805617-Sep2019/

    Very interesting development. Of course Euthanasia already legal in Netherlands but in ways, a welcome development. The abuse aspect of such cases (not in this case but the potential for abuse) is however still a factor


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,366 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Fathom


    The abuse aspect of such cases (not in this case but the potential for abuse) is however still a factor
    Questions how it should be regulated if allowed.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,009 ✭✭✭✭ Graces7


    Look up Liverpool Pathway and the various reactions to it. Any such plan is so easily abused. And was. I am deeply suspicious of old folk being given end of life injections" to make it easier for them"

    Island Anchorhold..

    islandanchorhold.blogspot.com



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