Manager in trouble complained by team member

Claire_S

Hi, thanks for reading. Basically I started in a role in the Public Sector almost two years ago in my first Supervisor job over a team of five.

Four of the guys who are all on fixed term contracts are fantastic workers barring one Permenant guy whom I am constantly having major difficulties with. He has rang in sick 13 times so far this year but never takes more than two days off so he doesn't have to provide a cert. When I spoke to him about it he claimed I had upset him and took 7 weeks off work for so called stress leave. That means we couldn't replace him and he still got paid.

After he returned to work he began acting up again immediately and seems to have major issues with being asked to do something or being told what to do.

I've only worked in the Private Sector, mostly financial and came in to the puclic sector expecting the same high standards from my team.

Anyway he recently told my team and I that he had started to take Ritilan which he claims will calm him down. I then told another manager in front of my team member that he had started taking Ritilan and there was an explosion from him claiming I had breached confidentially and disclosed medical information about him and has reported me to HR. But he never told me it was in confidence and not to tell anybody.

I've gotten on brilliant in every job I've worked in and this one is going very well too except for this guy. Now for the first time in my life I will have to attend a HR meeting and I am feeling mortified and dreading it.

Does anybody know how I should proceed? I didn't even realise I shouldn't have told my manager that or that it would cause trouble. Can I get sacked over this? I've a perfect record in there and have never called in sick etc in this or any other previous job. I feel sick in the bottom part of my stomach over this and it's really stressing me out. My fault for saying what I said I know!

I had planned on saying at the HR meeting that he had never asked me to keep it confidential and that's who I didn't. It's my first management job so I'm still learning a lot.

Would anybody have any advice they could offer me? My own manager mentioned that I could bring somebody to the meeting with me so should I ask a solicitor? I'm not in a union nor ever have been. Thanks again for reading.

wexie

EDIT :
Oh hang on.....I only just noticed he told you as well as the team. That certainly changes things.

Anyways, like Captain said this guy sounds like a troublemaker and there's a good chance HR are already aware of this.

Claire_S wrote: »

I had planned on saying at the HR meeting that he had never asked me to keep it confidential and that's who I didn't. It's my first management job so I'm still learning a lot.

Don't say that because if he had told you alone in a back to work meeting or so you would absolutely have had to treat it as confidential.

But considering he told the team I don't think it's unfair to consider it as public knowledge.

Captain Red Beard

Claire_S wrote: »

Hi, thanks for reading. Basically I started in a role in the Public Sector almost two years ago in my first Supervisor job over a team of five.

Four of the guys who are all on fixed term contracts are fantastic workers barring one Permenant guy whom I am constantly having major difficulties with. He has rang in sick 13 times so far this year but never takes more than two days off so he doesn't have to provide a cert. When I spoke to him about it he claimed I had upset him and took 7 weeks off work for so called stress leave. That means we couldn't replace him and he still got paid.

After he returned to work he began acting up again immediately and seems to have major issues with being asked to do something or being told what to do.

I've only worked in the Private Sector, mostly financial and came in to the puclic sector expecting the same high standards from my team.

Anyway he recently told my team and I that he had started to take Ritilan which he claims will calm him down. I then told another manager in front of my team member that he had started taking Ritilan and there was an explosion from him claiming I had breached confidentially and disclosed medical information about him and has reported me to HR. But he never told me it was in confidence and not to tell anybody.

I've gotten on brilliant in every job I've worked in and this one is going very well too except for this guy. Now for the first time in my life I will have to attend a HR meeting and I am feeling mortified and dreading it.

Does anybody know how I should proceed? I didn't even realise I shouldn't have told my manager that or that it would cause trouble. Can I get sacked over this? I've a perfect record in there and have never called in sick etc in this or any other previous job. I feel sick in the bottom part of my stomach over this and it's really stressing me out. My fault for saying what I said I know!

I had planned on saying at the HR meeting that he had never asked me to keep it confidential and that's who I didn't. It's my first management job so I'm still learning a lot.

Would anybody have any advice they could offer me? My own manager mentioned that I could bring somebody to the meeting with me so should I ask a solicitor? I'm not in a union nor ever have been. Thanks again for reading.

He told you and your team, it's public knowledge. He's trying to play you, this should be obvious to HR.

billie1b

Claire_S wrote: »

Hi, thanks for reading. Basically I started in a role in the Public Sector almost two years ago in my first Supervisor job over a team of five.

Four of the guys who are all on fixed term contracts are fantastic workers barring one Permenant guy whom I am constantly having major difficulties with. He has rang in sick 13 times so far this year but never takes more than two days off so he doesn't have to provide a cert. When I spoke to him about it he claimed I had upset him and took 7 weeks off work for so called stress leave. That means we couldn't replace him and he still got paid.

After he returned to work he began acting up again immediately and seems to have major issues with being asked to do something or being told what to do.

I've only worked in the Private Sector, mostly financial and came in to the puclic sector expecting the same high standards from my team.

Anyway he recently told my team and I that he had started to take Ritilan which he claims will calm him down. I then told another manager in front of my team member that he had started taking Ritilan and there was an explosion from him claiming I had breached confidentially and disclosed medical information about him and has reported me to HR. But he never told me it was in confidence and not to tell anybody.

I've gotten on brilliant in every job I've worked in and this one is going very well too except for this guy. Now for the first time in my life I will have to attend a HR meeting and I am feeling mortified and dreading it.

Does anybody know how I should proceed? I didn't even realise I shouldn't have told my manager that or that it would cause trouble. Can I get sacked over this? I've a perfect record in there and have never called in sick etc in this or any other previous job. I feel sick in the bottom part of my stomach over this and it's really stressing me out. My fault for saying what I said I know!

I had planned on saying at the HR meeting that he had never asked me to keep it confidential and that's who I didn't. It's my first management job so I'm still learning a lot.

Would anybody have any advice they could offer me? My own manager mentioned that I could bring somebody to the meeting with me so should I ask a solicitor? I'm not in a union nor ever have been. Thanks again for reading.

He told you and your team, which is not on a confidentiality basis, for this it would need to be a one on one meeting, plus it’s the public service so you won’t get sacked

duffman13

Captain Red Beard wrote: »

He told you and your team, it's public knowledge. He's trying to play you, this should be obvious to HR.

I dont know about this, he discussed a staff members personal medical details with unrelated person. It's a data breach in my opinion, the colleague in question shared the information with people he works with and is comfortable around. That doesn't mean it's public knowledge

Secondly OP, 13 absences in a twelve month period? How has he not been dismissed? Someone has let the ball drop not managing those levels of absence

foxatron

Has anything been done about his sick leave. He can only have 7 uncertified absences over 2 years.
Stick with the fact that he said he is taking it in front of other team members.

KaneToad

foxatron wrote: »

Has anything been done about his sick leave. He can only have 7 uncertified absences over 2 years.

Now referred to as "self certified" sick leave rather than uncertified. 7 days in a rolling 2 years is the most he can have.

13 in 12 months is far in excess of Public Sector parameters.

_Brian

Ok, the fact that he told others has some bearing but only a bit.

As a manager your expected to hold higher standards and I’d consider repeating medical information about an employee where another employee was present to be a big no no.

I’d expect your best approach is as you say to point out it was made public knowledge by him but that it was an error on your behalf to repeat it. It’s probably going to include an apology to the guy too. But I seriously doubt it will result in termination. You should have a union rep, don’t attend the hr meeting before speaking to them.

The guy needs managing ok but you mistakenly applied private industry standards to a sloppy clever public sector employee and that was a mistake.

Sit down and go through the hr guidelines In detail, specifically those on absence and sick leave, I expect he has already done this and is threading just inside the line, make sure you know the line and only call him out if he goes beyond it.

Now, he’s been clever and taken sick as a result of you speaking to him, be careful, it wouldn’t be much till he has a harassment claim against you. Only call him up when your sure it’s a clear issue.

Bandana boy

Stop paying him when he is sick as he has breached the Sick pay scheme parameters .

Yawns

Guaranteed not to have exceeded the sick pay scheme parameters. This guy knows what he's doing. He's using a combination of uncertified and certified sick pay. The 7 weeks stress would have been certified sick and you can bet he knows full well his entitlements.

Just go to the meeting, bring someone if you wish but state the your side. Telling people of his medication will be brought up and you shouldn't have done that, but make sure to bring up the unreliability due to sick absences. Do your best to try get him transferred out to a different department, he won't be sacked anyway.

facehugger99

Claire_S wrote: »

I then told another manager in front of my team member that he had started taking Ritilan and there was an explosion from him claiming I had breached confidentially and disclosed medical information about him and has reported me to HR.

Don't understand why you'd even do this tbh. What was the context of you deciding to mention it?

Dr.Sanchez

The first thing you can do Claire is changing your username on this website. I got caught out a few years ago using my first name as a username when discussing work issues online. You never know whos reading!

Claire_S

Thanks Dr Sanchez, I have already thought of that and did change my name.

Facehugger: The guys on my team had been slagging him all week about it, telling him to double drop etc. It was a manager above me who I told, didn't even occur to me that what I was saying would cause offense. I realise if he had told me in confidence then under no circumstance should it be repeated.

Apparently in the public sector you can take as much sick leave as you want but they stop paying you after a certain amount.

I'm not a member of the union nor ever have been so that's I asked should I bring a solicitor.

This guy was brought up for a diriplinary before but Union Rep pointed out that the correct procedures had not been followed. So it was reduced down to a pre disiplinary instead. He doesn't have a college degree just LC.

Other managers before me have had numerous talks with him but he started asking them about the long lunch breaks they take everyday so that sort of shut them up. He knows he's secure in his job. I'm half tempted to just give in my notice over it but wanted to stick it out for the two years for my CV. I miss working in the normal private sector where work means work and I miss the wit and the banter in there also.

I'll have to wait and see now whappens. I don't mind if I got sacked it's the reference that worries me.

ANXIOUS

I think you need to clarify is the Manager you told your manager and his overall one?

OMM 0000

I don't know enough about how the public sector works, but as a manager I would already be making moves to get rid of this person.

You need to get HR on your side so you can do it together. Follow their lead, as they're experts in this sort of thing.

The guy sounds like the type of prick who will try to sue you if you make any wrong moves, so you need to follow the law to the t.

The_Conductor

Refusing to accept reasonable instruction from his line manager (you) is a breach of your rights under the Dignity at Work protocols.
Also- DO NOT under any circumstance go to the meeting on your own- or else you're going to end up in a 'he said, she said' situation.
Have someone take notes- and give them to both you and he after the meeting- to agree that it is a fair and reasonable account of the meeting.
I'm really sorry but the guy is running rings around you as is- you can't afford to put a foot wrong on this (or you'll end up on the wrong side of a bullying case- or worse).

You *need* someone from HR present- who is thoroughly familiar with the protocols to be followed- you've given him an inch and he has taken a mile..........

yabadabado

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't know enough about how the public sector works, but as a manager I would already be making moves to get rid of this person.

You need to get HR on your side so you can do it together. Follow their lead, as they're experts in this sort of thing.

The guy sounds like the type of prick who will try to sue you if you make any wrong moves, so you need to follow the law to the t.

Doubtful much will be done ,bar maybe moving the problem elsewhere.

OP whatever you do dont quit over this.Let it run its course.Stick to the rules and involve HR with everything you do with this lad.

mickjohnlong

I would of thought it was your duty to tell your manager. With the reason being if you were out your manager would be aware of it and respond accordingly if something was to happen.

boombang

I'm not offering advice, but would like to offer my support. People like your man are a disgrace and I think it's so sad that they end stressing diligent managers out. Best of luck and I hope you can uphold the ethos of your team up despite that bad apple.

vectorvictor

Serious amount of identifiable information in this post.

Would expect more trouble from the troublesome worker from this than anything else if they ever saw your post (not unlikely given their approach to workers rights et al)

Claire_S

ANXIOUS wrote: »

I think you need to clarify is the Manager you told your manager and his overall one?

My title is Supervisor. The manager whom I told would be over me. Then there is deputy head and the Head of Dept.

Collie D

vectorvictor wrote: »

Serious amount of identifible information in this post.

Would expect more trouble from the troublesome worker from this than anything else if they ever saw your post (not unlikely given their approach to workers rights et al)

Would have to echo this. Without going in to the rights and wrongs of the situation I don't think it's very clever to air this on a public forum, especially when the complaint is for a breach of confidence.

My advice would be to delete your posts and ask a mod to lock the thread.

Magnatu

Claire_S wrote: »

Basically I started in a role in the Public Sector almost two years ago in my first Supervisor job

Permenant guy whom I am constantly having major difficulties with. He has rang in sick 13 times so far this year but never takes more than two days off so he doesn't have to provide a cert.

I've only worked in the Private Sector, mostly financial and came in to the puclic sector expecting the same high standards from my team.

KaneToad wrote: »

Now referred to as "self certified" sick leave rather than uncertified. 7 days in a rolling 2 years is the most he can have.

13 in 12 months is far in excess of Public Sector parameters.

Correct. 7 days in 2 years is the maximum allowed. If OP did actually work in public sector she would be aware of this.

Claire_S wrote: »

My title is Supervisor. The manager whom I told would be over me. Then there is deputy head and the Head of Dept.

These are not public sector job titles. They would only be used in private sector.

Ursus Horribilis

I also think you badly need to brush up on your public service regulations. Starting with how much uncertified/certified sick someone can take.
I'd love to know who's in charge of this man's clock. Who's his manager? Have you spoken to them? In the unlikely event he has taken all of this leave as uncertified sick, HR and Peoplepoint will be on his case by now. None of this makes sense. I've got my suspicions here.. are you trolling?

shar01

The permanent chap can take as many sick days as he wants but he may not be getting paid for them - 7 days paid in a rolling 2 year period. Still should be tackled by HR though.

OP - get hold of your disciplinary policy. It is possible to get someone out of the public service but you absolutely must do everything by the book. It's a long process and sometimes it's easier to leave him to his own devices but persevere. It's worth it.

Edit: Maybe my troll-dar is off...