Recommendations for charger (possibly for 2 cars)

jarrieta

Hi,

I know there have been a few threads about charger recommendations, after almost a year browsing and trying to sell my old car, I have decided to let it go for almost half the money I hoped getting for it and a massive depreciation hit.

So I will hopefully be buying a 2nd hand leaf and I am starting to look at home chargers.

My idea is to get a Zappi as I have an electric shower and I might swap it for a pumped one at some point, but not in the short term. That way I won't need a priority switch.

I might change the family car for a 2nd hand PHEV Niro too (or a tesla/EV Niro if I win the lotto) possibly next year so I will need to charge 2 cars, most probably a PHEV.

I was thinking that maybe a fitting a socket when I get the charger in and use a granny for the PHEV would be enough?

Any opinions? Does anyone know if it is possible to change the cable in the zappi for a type 2 in the future?

Also where could I get the charger cheaper? Not sure if electric autos still stock the zappi, will ring them.

Thanks!

Zenith74

You hear of people taking the charger apart and swapping the cable for a different type, so seems doable, but whether you'd want to (given warranty concerns, large amount of electricity involved and all that) may vary. To be honest the fact that this is the last Type1 car you will ever buy, it may make more sense to buy a charger with a Type2 cable and just get a converter (https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/type-2-to-type-2-converter.html) for the Leaf. That converter will also let you use the likes of the Tesla destination chargers in Lidl etc.

Or the alternative is to go for an untethered Type2 charger, that way you can have a type1-type2 cable for your Leaf and a type2-type2 for your second EV or future Leaf replacement. I went this route and went with one of these chargers - https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/wallpod-ev-commercial-charge/products/wallpod-ev-commercialcharge-type-2-socket

slave1

Personally I'd go for an external 3pin socket for the PHEV and then whatever charger for the BEV, if you are not using the proper charger for your BEV you can always use it on the PHEV but really given the battery size I would not invest heavily in a formal charger when a 3pin Granny is a cheap solution...

daheff

slave1 wrote: »

Personally I'd go for an external 3pin socket for the PHEV and then whatever charger for the BEV, if you are not using the proper charger for your BEV you can always use it on the PHEV but really given the battery size I would not invest heavily in a formal charger when a 3pin Granny is a cheap solution...

How long would a charge on a 3 pin take for (say Niro) PHEV?

any down side to not having a proper charger?

I ask as I already have an outdoor socket & am seriously considering the Niro PHEV as I feel the BEV will be outside my price bracket

Sleeper12

jarrieta wrote:

My idea is to get a Zappi as I have an electric shower and I might swap it for a pumped one at some point, but not in the short term. That way I won't need a priority switch.

Would you really need to replace the electric shower?

I don't have EV myself yet but would assume that you would be charging on the night rate. I wouldn't have thought that too many people shower midnight to 6am when you'd be charging. Anyway a priority switch is only around 120 euros to buy.

jarrieta

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Would you really need to replace the electric shower?

I don't have EV myself yet but would assume that you would be charging on the night rate. I wouldn't have thought that too many people shower midnight to 6am when you'd be charging. Anyway a priority switch is only around 120 euros to buy.

Yeah, that is something I don't have planned, but for peace of mind I would rather install a zappi or a charger and a priority switch

KCross

daheff wrote: »

How long would a charge on a 3 pin take for (say Niro) PHEV?

any down side to not having a proper charger?

I ask as I already have an outdoor socket & am seriously considering the Niro PHEV as I feel the BEV will be outside my price bracket

The Niro PHEV has an 8.9kWh battery.

The granny cable charges at 2.3kW it would be about 4hrs to charge it from 0-100%.

A "proper" charger would charge at 3.3kW and takes ~2.25hrs


So, if the car is at home for a few hours you can regain the 50km EV only range within 2hrs to go out again later. Waiting 4hrs on the granny makes it less usable.

Shefwedfan

You dont need to get rid of electric shower. I have 2 electric showers and a power shower along with my car charger and no issues...apart from my bill of course :-)

I am considering the same. I have electric car and would like to swap other diesel car to PHEV. A cheap external plug could potentially do the job over night while I have electric car charging at the same time

During the day I would top up the PHEV during the day using the car charger. I don't see a need to every to have to charge both cars at the sametime....

Of course the preference would be 2 x car charger but along with showers etc I think I might overload the system a small bit :-)

kuro68k

One thing about the model of charger. I had a Rolec in the UK and it failed after maybe 3 years. Well known issue, the crappy RCBO burnt out. Fortunately it was very easy to replaced, 20 quid part and about 15 minutes work. No need to get an electrician out.

So make sure you get one that you can maintain yourself. Had I stayed I'd have had no issue changing he cable over if I changed car too.

Sleeper12

kuro68k wrote:

One thing about the model of charger. I had a Rolec in the UK and it failed after maybe 3 years. Well known issue, the crappy RCBO burnt out. Fortunately it was very easy to replaced, 20 quid part and about 15 minutes work. No need to get an electrician out.

Just to point out that any work on the fusebox must be carried out by a Registered Electrical Contractor and a cert issued. Anyone else runs the risk of a prison sentence and the insurance not paying out in the case of a fire

KCross

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Just to point out that any work on the fusebox must be carried out by a Registered Electrical Contractor and a cert issued. Anyone else runs the risk of a prison sentence and the insurance not paying out in the case of a fire

To be fair to kuro68k he is referring to the RCBO in the charge point itself, not in the consumer unit, so what you say is true but not applicable here.

It is a well known issue with the early Rolec's that they burned the neutral connection coming into charge point at the RCBO.

It's an easy fix/replacement and doesnt mandate a RECI.

daheff

KCross wrote: »

The Niro PHEV has an 8.9kWh battery.

The granny cable charges at 2.3kW it would be about 4hrs to charge it from 0-100%.

A "proper" charger would charge at 3.3kW and takes ~2.25hrs


So, if the car is at home for a few hours you can regain the 50km EV only range within 2hrs to go out again later. Waiting 4hrs on the granny makes it less usable.

thanks for explaining this. If i understand it right (do I?) its battery size/KW of charging to give how long it takes to charge?

So using that logic a 64kwh (kona/Niro) battery at 3.3kw would take 19 hours?

peposhi

We use a 7kw charger for the car we need to get charged fast and a granny cable for the second EV.
Works perfect for a 2 EV family. It would do you perfect for an EV & PHEV family...

As for charger... if I was to buy again it would be Zappi. I regret getting Chargemaster - since day one gives a bit of troubles, although not harmful for the cars...

KCross

daheff wrote: »

thanks for explaining this. If i understand it right (do I?) its battery size/KW of charging to give how long it takes to charge?

So using that logic a 64kwh (kona/Niro) battery at 3.3kw would take 19 hours?

Yes, thats roughly it.

kWh is capacity of the battery
kW is energy being delivered

So if you had a 1kWh battery and you charged it at a rate of 1kW it would take 1hr to charge it. Thats simplistic but roughly how it works.


In reality it takes a little longer as you lose some of the energy to heat during the charging process (about 10%).

If you have a 60kWh+ car you would likely use/need a 7kW charge point so that you could fully charge it during the 9hrs of night rate electricity.
NOTE: The rate the car can take is different per car. AFAIK the Niro PHEV can only take 3.3kW. The Niro EV can take 7kW.

daheff

KCross wrote: »

Yes, thats roughly it.

kWh is capacity of the battery
kW is energy being delivered

So if you had a 1kWh battery and you charged it at a rate of 1kW it would take 1hr to charge it. Thats simplistic but roughly how it works.


In reality it takes a little longer as you lose some of the energy to heat during the charging process (about 10%).

If you have a 60kWh+ car you would likely use/need a 7kW charge point so that you could fully charge it during the 9hrs of night rate electricity.
NOTE: The rate the car can take is different per car. AFAIK the Niro PHEV can only take 3.3kW. The Niro EV can take 7kW.

OK so. Apologies to the OP - I'm kind of hijacking this thread with my questions around chargers.

So I'm looking at the PHEV at the moment, but will most likely go full EV in the future. So if I get a charging point installed, would it be most sensible to get a 7kw (or more) charge point installed or get a 3.3kw ?

I'm assuming the PHEV can be connected to a 7kw charger, but would only charge at a rate of 3.3kw? OR would it not charge at all/be damaged by a higher rate charge point?

kuro68k

KCross wrote: »

To be fair to kuro68k he is referring to the RCBO in the charge point itself, not in the consumer unit, so what you say is true but not applicable here.

It is a well known issue with the early Rolec's that they burned the neutral connection coming into charge point at the RCBO.

It's an easy fix/replacement and doesnt mandate a RECI.

Yes, it was just a few screws and wiring in the new RCBO. Only activity by the fuse box was to disconnect the power while I worked. Had a mate there to double check.

jarrieta

daheff wrote: »

OK so. Apologies to the OP - I'm kind of hijacking this thread with my questions around chargers.

So I'm looking at the PHEV at the moment, but will most likely go full EV in the future. So if I get a charging point installed, would it be most sensible to get a 7kw (or more) charge point installed or get a 3.3kw ?

I'm assuming the PHEV can be connected to a 7kw charger, but would only charge at a rate of 3.3kw? OR would it not charge at all/be damaged by a higher rate charge point?

No problem, I would definitely install a 32A charger/cable to be more future proof as the price increase does not look that high. For the PHEV I'd say the granny is most of the time ok if you go like I plan with BEV in the 32A charger and the PHEV in the granny. I'd say dual charger is overkill at this point in time, hard to say

KCross

daheff wrote: »

OK so. Apologies to the OP - I'm kind of hijacking this thread with my questions around chargers.

So I'm looking at the PHEV at the moment, but will most likely go full EV in the future. So if I get a charging point installed, would it be most sensible to get a 7kw (or more) charge point installed or get a 3.3kw ?

I'm assuming the PHEV can be connected to a 7kw charger, but would only charge at a rate of 3.3kw? OR would it not charge at all/be damaged by a higher rate charge point?

Yes, anyone putting in a charge point should always put in a 7kW charge point (32A) to future proof it.

The car, charge point and cable negotiate what rate to use. You wont damage the car.

Sleeper12

KCross wrote:

It's an easy fix/replacement and doesnt mandate a RECI.

Thanks for clarifying that. I put my hands up I made a mistake.

unkel

Easy mistake, when someone mentions RCBO, I think consumer unit too!

In this case I happened to know the Rolecs come with one built in. Wouldn't recommend Rolec to anyone. No personal experience with them, but they seem to be the only EVSE that you hear many bad things about. Seems to be the least reliable of them all.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Easy mistake, when someone mentions RCBO, I think consumer unit too!

In this case I happened to know the Rolecs come with one built in. Wouldn't recommend Rolec to anyone. No personal experience with them, but they seem to be the only EVSE that you hear many bad things about. Seems to be the least reliable of them all.

Early ones were bad. Some scary photos of them melting the RCBO!

Newer ones have an upgraded RCBO and appear to be OK. I would recommend NOT buying a s/h one unless you have verified it has the upgraded RCBO (D40).

New Rolec's should be OK and most of the commercial charge points I see seem to be Rolec as well so I wouldnt say they are that bad overall... now.


https://www.speakev.com/threads/rolec-charger-dangerous.37841/page-5#post-686033

https://www.speakev.com/threads/rolec-charger-dangerous.37841/page-9#post-775937

quenching

I regularly charge a Leaf and a Mitsubishi Outlander from a Rolec charger with a built-in 3pin domestic socket, this one here:

https://www.midselec.co.uk/rolec-ev-multimode-j1772-c-w-5m-tether-32a.html

No priority switch as the cars usually charge overnight (both together) and our instant electric shower isn't used at those times.

Works perfectly.

kuro68k

Rolec units are good apart from the early RCBOs. Even second hand you can just replace the RCBO for 20 quid and they are great.

What makes them good is that they are simple, which makes them reliable and robust. Basically just a weatherproof box with the RCBO, a small control unit and the socket/cable. You can do maintenance yourself easily, change the cable if required etc.

I know some people went for more complex units with all sorts of functions, but they just aren't as reliable.