Public Service Recruits pay rise

trigger26

Saw this in the news about 60,000 public servants getting onto same scale as pre 2011 recruits, basically jumping 2 tiers over the next 2 years

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0924/995750-public-servant-pay/

Does this apply to civil servants anyone know?

trigger26

trigger26 wrote: »

Saw this in the news about 60,000 public servants getting onto same scale as pre 2011 recruits, basically jumping 2 tiers over the next 2 years

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0924/995750-public-servant-pay/

Does this apply to civil servants anyone know?

yes

1059007

What happens if you passed point 8 on the scale ... do you leapfrog two points on the basis point 4 & 8 are gone?

Sir Ophiuchus

1059007 wrote: »

What happens if you passed point 8 on the scale ... do you leapfrog two points on the basis point 4 & 8 are gone?

Yes.

Crunchymomma

1059007 wrote: »

What happens if you passed point 8 on the scale ... do you leapfrog two points on the basis point 4 & 8 are gone?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the change isnt relevant to anyone passed point eight as they are on pre 2011 scales and therefore were not affected by the additional two points that were added on

Sir Ophiuchus

Crunchymomma wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but the change isnt relevant to anyone passed point eight as they are on pre 2011 scales and therefore were not affected by the additional two points that were added on

Unless you were placed at a higher scale point at starting, whether through recruitment (back when that was a thing) or because you were already above a particular salary point in a previous CS role.

Technocentral

Im starting on increment 4 this October will I stay on this and then jump to 5 in March?

Sir Ophiuchus

Technocentral wrote: »

Im starting on increment 4 this October will I stay on this and then jump to 5 in March?

According to the chart the union sent me, if you reach point 4 in 2018, then on your increment date in 2019 (so long as it's post March) you go to point 6.

So your increment date won't change, you'll just go to point 6 in October 2019 (because that's your personal increment date) instead of point 5.

Technocentral

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Technocentral wrote: »

Im starting on increment 4 this October will I stay on this and then jump to 5 in March?

According to the chart the union sent me, if you reach point 4 in 2018, then on your increment date in 2019 (so long as it's post March) you go to point 6.

So your increment date won't change, you'll just go to point 6 in October 2019 (because that's your personal increment date) instead of point 5.

Makes sense thanks, has this been accepted by all and going ahead definitely?

caviardreams

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Unless you were placed at a higher scale point at starting, whether through recruitment (back when that was a thing) or because you were already above a particular salary point in a previous CS role.

But the whole point of this is that everyone affected *had* to start on the lowest point (which was also 10% below at the time) so everyone will still be below point 8 at this point.

troyzer

I still have no idea how this works.

I only started in June on the bottom scale. The circular is a bit contradictory. It says I'm due a 1% pay rise but also gives a salary table which is apparentely effective next week. If that's true then the pay rise is a lot more than 1%.

Clueless.

MarkR

I'm starting a job in a university next month at grade 4. Does that mean I would be moving to six in March, or is that a different thing? Coming from private sector, so this is all new to me.

Sir Ophiuchus

MarkR wrote: »

I'm starting a job in a university next month at grade 4. Does that mean I would be moving to six in March, or is that a different thing? Coming from private sector, so this is all new to me.

Different thing. We're talking about increment points on a salary scale, like this:

25000 - 26000 - 27000 - 28000 (etc)

You'd start on point 1 normally (25000 in this fictional example), and move to point 2 after 1 year of service (unless there were issues), and so on each year.

MarkR

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Different thing. We're talking about increment points on a salary scale, like this:

25000 - 26000 - 27000 - 28000 (etc)

You'd start on point 1 normally (25000 in this fictional example), and move to point 2 after 1 year of service (unless there were issues), and so on each year.

Are those scale points? Because I'm starting on scale point 4.

Technocentral

MarkR wrote: »

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Different thing. We're talking about increment points on a salary scale, like this:

25000 - 26000 - 27000 - 28000 (etc)

You'd start on point 1 normally (25000 in this fictional example), and move to point 2 after 1 year of service (unless there were issues), and so on each year.

Are those scale points? Because I'm starting on scale point 4.

Fictional.

Sir Ophiuchus

MarkR wrote: »

Are those scale points? Because I'm starting on scale point 4.

They are scale points, yes. I was confused because some public organisations use terms like 'Grade III' and 'Grade IV' to denote various roles.

Edit: MarkR PM'd me to clarify. He gets that my specific example is fictional.

n!ghtmancometh

I'm only in civil service 18 months or so and still haven't wrapped my head around increments, and these 1% pay raises thrown in on top just confuse me more! I'm due to move to point 3 in April 2019, so will I just go to point 4 then instead?

And the 1% rise is independent of the increment rise?

ThumbTaxed

I am not sure would I call this a pay rise. Isnt it just a pay acceleration?

Sir Ophiuchus

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

I am not sure would I call this a pay rise. Isnt it just a pay acceleration?

Officially it would be pay restoration.

Sir Ophiuchus

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

I'm only in civil service 18 months or so and still haven't wrapped my head around increments, and these 1% pay raises thrown in on top just confuse me more! I'm due to move to point 3 in April 2019, so will I just go to point 4 then instead?

No, you'll go to point 3. Then in April 2020 you go to point 5.

And the 1% rise is independent of the increment rise?

Yes.

troyzer

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

I'm only in civil service 18 months or so and still haven't wrapped my head around increments, and these 1% pay raises thrown in on top just confuse me more! I'm due to move to point 3 in April 2019, so will I just go to point 4 then instead?

No, you'll go to point 3. Then in April 2020 you go to point 5.

And the 1% rise is independent of the increment rise?

Yes.

So what's happening to me? I'm currently on the 1st increment.

brownbinman

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

According to the chart the union sent me, if you reach point 4 in 2018, then on your increment date in 2019 (so long as it's post March) you go to point 6.

So your increment date won't change, you'll just go to point 6 in October 2019 (because that's your personal increment date) instead of point 5.

I'll be on point 3 come March, so would I need to wait till next year to go to point 6?

Sir Ophiuchus

Easiest way to think about it?

Points 4 and 8 won't exist any more. Everyone will eventually get to skip those two points.

Here's a breakdown of all the possibilities.

After 1 March 2019, on your next increment date:

- If you're already above point 8, jump two points (you were gonna reach point 10, you go to point 12).

- If you're above point 4 and below point 8, jump one point (you were gonna reach point 6, you go to point 7) AND ALSO when you do get to point 8 you skip it and go to point 9 instead.

- If you are going to hit point 4, go to point 5 instead AND ALSO when you get to point 8 you skip it and go to point 9 instead.

- If you aren't going to hit point 4, you move up normally BUT skip points 4 and 8 as you move along. (Example: In 2019 you go to point 3, in 2020 point 5, in 2021 point 6, in 2022 point 7, in 2023 point 9.)

- If (somehow) you're on the new entrant scales but are nonetheless at the top of your scale and waiting for long service increments, the waiting time will be reduced by 2 years.

troyzer

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

Easiest way to think about it?

Points 4 and 8 won't exist any more. Everyone will eventually get to skip those two points.

Here's a breakdown of all the possibilities.

After 1 March 2019, on your next increment date:

- If you're already above point 8, jump two points (you were gonna reach point 10, you go to point 12).

- If you're above point 4 and below point 8, jump one point (you were gonna reach point 6, you go to point 7) AND ALSO when you do get to point 8 you skip it and go to point 9 instead.

- If you are going to hit point 4, go to point 5 instead AND ALSO when you get to point 8 you skip it and go to point 9 instead.

- If you aren't going to hit point 4, you move up normally BUT skip points 4 and 8 as you move along. (Example: In 2019 you go to point 3, in 2020 point 5, in 2021 point 6, in 2022 point 7, in 2023 point 9.)

- If (somehow) you're on the new entrant scales but are nonetheless at the top of your scale and waiting for long service increments, the waiting time will be reduced by 2 years.

My head just exploded.

I'm new to all of the civil service stuff so I'll just have to wait and see what's on the pay slip.

Sir Ophiuchus

troyzer wrote: »

My head just exploded.

I'm new to all of the civil service stuff so I'll just have to wait and see what's on the pay slip.

You won't have to worry about it for 2/3 more years in that case. You'll get the 1% with everyone else.

Wheety

This is to get rid of the 2 pay scales, one for new entrants, from 2011 I think, and those who joined before hand. Newer entrants had 2 extra points on the scale so this gets rid of them so there will be 1 scale going forward.

The 1% from 1st October is different and is pay restoration from the cuts during the financial crisis. This will increase the salaries on all points of the scales.

troyzer

Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

My head just exploded.

I'm new to all of the civil service stuff so I'll just have to wait and see what's on the pay slip.

You won't have to worry about it for 2/3 more years in that case. You'll get the 1% with everyone else.

I'm only on an 11 month contract. Guess it won't apply then.

Wheety

troyzer wrote: »

I'm only on an 11 month contract. Guess it won't apply then.

Are you a TCO?

You should get the 1% with everyone else in October.

troyzer

Wheety wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

I'm only on an 11 month contract. Guess it won't apply then.

Are you a TCO?

You should get the 1% with everyone else in October.

Yeah but not the broader raise.

I have no idea what a TCO is.

august12

troyzer wrote:

I have no idea what a TCO is.

Temporary clerical officer

troyzer

august12 wrote: »

troyzer wrote:

I have no idea what a TCO is.

Temporary clerical officer

Oh right, no I'm not. I work in a technical role.

Normally we'd be hired as self employed contractors but some European money is allowing them to hire us as full civil servants, albeit for only 11 months.

Wheety

troyzer wrote: »

Oh right, no I'm not. I work in a technical role.

Normally we'd be hired as self employed contractors but some European money is allowing them to hire us as full civil servants, albeit for only 11 months.

You may be on a different contract then. Have you been told you're getting the 1%?

I thought this was just for general service grades.

troyzer

Wheety wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Oh right, no I'm not. I work in a technical role.

Normally we'd be hired as self employed contractors but some European money is allowing them to hire us as full civil servants, albeit for only 11 months.

You may be on a different contract then. Have you been told you're getting the 1%?

I thought this was just for general service grades.

I have a standard grade. I haven't been told specifically I'm getting the 1% but my grade is fairly common and I got the circular so I'd assume so.

*Gaijin*

I joined CS two years ago. Not due to get to inc 4 til 2020. Hypothetically, if I got promoted in meantime, what happens?

wos

Does anyone know what the story is if someone is currently on point 4 of the standard scale and due to move to point 5 in Apr 2019 (therefore jumping directly to point 6 at that time) but got the higher scale in the meantime (say for arguments sake, Nov 2018)?

Wheety

*Gaijin* wrote: »

I joined CS two years ago. Not due to get to inc 4 til 2020. Hypothetically, if I got promoted in meantime, what happens?

You'll move onto the scale for the new grade.

If it's one of the grades which is due to lose two points (I'm not sure if all grades are) then you'll just be on the first point as normal but there'll be 2 less points to reach the top of the scale.

wos wrote: »

Does anyone know what the story is if someone is currently on point 4 of the standard scale and due to move to point 5 in Apr 2019 (therefore jumping directly to point 6 at that time) but got the higher scale in the meantime (say for arguments sake, Nov 2018)?

Why would you get the higher scale?

wos

Wheety wrote: »

...
Why would you get the higher scale?

If you were successful in an application for the higher scale (seperate to this matter).

Wheety

wos wrote: »

If you were successful in an application for the higher scale (seperate to this matter).

I would imagine you'd just be on the equivalent point but on the higher scale.

caviardreams

I could be wrong but I don't think the higher scales had the two extra lower points added to them (as they are not typically designed to be entry scales), in which case I imagine you just slot across at the relevant point on the higher scale, but check with your union imo

Mrwade

What grades does this apply to, will grade 3s and grade 4s skip two points on the scale