Land not being used for last 3 years

Dickie10

hi all, bit of a strange one here. theres a landowner not far from me who has some grazing land which hasnt been farmed for the last 3-4 years.it isnt suitable for tillage as it is parkland on a demense littered with mature oak and beech trees. it hasnt been let out in the last few years because the land owner got stung with the last guy who didnt pay up for 3-5 years of renting it and eventually threw it up. i was just wondering how could i approach the owner or should i at all with a view to taking it.? it is kind of a front lawn of a castle type estate hoese/mansion. it totals about 70-80 acres including trees which are peppered across the land. it is all in one block of parkland. at the minute it is old rough grasses you know the type which would grow if nothing was done with the land for a few years. now i know it isnt set aside or anything because i was given quuite a bit of information by the farmer who rents the tillage ground on the estate. he told me the owner isnt too bothered about renting out this bit of grazing as he thinks its not of any value to anyone. to be honest im not sure if it is worth much but perhaps he would like it cleaned up at least. i know theres a market for feeding and seems a waste for 80 acres of grass to be going to rot. should i enquire and if so how would u lads that have experience of renting land go about it? i would be able to write a cheque and give it to the owner up front if he was worried about payment.

Water John

Nothing lost in doing it. Mow it and bale. He might let you run sheep on it next year. If he is worried about sheep eating bark etc, get Shropshire sheep.

Dakota Dan

If it’s growing 3 years untouched the feeding value of the grass will be pure sh1te especially old grasses. It would be some fun to ploughing it also as I had the pleasure of ploughing similar a few years ago, the mat of dead grass will drag in front of the plough. Probably better skin it with horses or sheep and then plough it.

Dickie10

i dont think there will be any value in ploughing it if i only get it conacre. my main enterprise would be baling it for silage each year and then either store lambs or sheep i would prob use it for a store lamb enterprise after i take silage off it. hes a bit of an eccentric aristocrat type just not sure how i would go about enquiring. i would be 80% sure i would get a flat no with a phone call. the tillage farmer who takes the tillage ground is an old family friend so he would vouch for me and also the owner could clear the cheque before i take the land if he wanted. i dont think i can do any more than that, but i have a feeling this guy just wants to leave the land there doing nothing. also what type of money would this sort of land go for rental wise?

Muckit

He was getting nothing but hardship from the last lad.... for years. Are u telling me if you drive up to the door offering €4k up front he'd set the hounds on you?

TheBoyConor

Dickie10 wrote: »

......how would u lads that have experience of renting land go about it? i would be able to write a cheque and give it to the owner up front if he was worried about payment.

Definitely don't do that. Going to a landower cheque in hand would be very presumptuous that he would be willing to let it and quite quite cheeky I would think.
If I got a knock on my door and there was a lad there asking to rent my land and waving a cheque in my face I'd be like "who the f**k does this guy think he is?"
I would contact them by letter or email first so that they have time to think it over before engaging with you. Putting someone on the spot by phone call or doorstepping isn't great.

Bass Reeves

I be of Muckit's opinion. If you are seen to be genuine with money up front he may be interested. While tge feed value of what us there will be poor it still has some value. If the ground is good I would mow as much as possible and put 20-30 drystpck to clean the rest over a few months. He might take 2-3k for what is on it this year and 4-5k from next year on

Bass Reeves

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Definitely don't do that. Going to a landower cheque in hand would be very presumptuous that he would be willing to let it and quite quite cheeky I would think.
If I got a knock on my door and there was a lad there asking to rent my land and waving a cheque in my face I'd be like "who the f**k does this guy think he is?"
I would contact them by letter or email first so that they have time to think it over before engaging with you. Putting someone on the spot by phone call or doorstepping isn't great.

I do not think Muckit is suggesting waving a cheque in front of him. I think he is suggesting to make it clear that Dickie is willing to pay the rent up front . This is most lads that rent ideal situation

Dickie10

i know it dosent really sit well with me either by just turning up asking but sometimes being there in person you can use your personality to help a bit more. like he might see that im not a gangster etc. perhaps being there in person may help over an email or phone call, its a bit like looking for a job sometimes your better to give acv in inperson thsn emailing, first impressions etc. because it basically is a job interview in many ways

Dakota Dan

Dickie10 wrote: »

i know it dosent really sit well with me either by just turning up asking but sometimes being there in person you can use your personality to help a bit more. like he might see that im not a gangster etc. perhaps being there in person may help over an email or phone call, its a bit like looking for a job sometimes your better to give acv in inperson thsn emailing, first impressions etc. because it basically is a job interview in many ways

What does a gangster look like? The same as everyone else.

liam7831

Dakota Dan wrote:

What does a gangster look like? The same as everyone else.

Bit like Robbie on Fair City I spose

patsy_mccabe

Why not get the guy renting the tillage to ask him if he's willing to rent? A good way of getting a foot in the door, so to speak.

Dakota Dan

liam7831 wrote: »

Bit like Robbie on Fair City I spose

Sure just like all murderers have bad haircuts and are loners like in the movies. In the real world they are just like you and I.

Dakota Dan

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Why not get the guy renting the tillage to ask him if he's willing to rent? A good way of getting a foot in the door, so to speak.

Better still go with the man renting the ground for tillage.

Sacrolyte

A dumb priest never got a parish.

Muckit

A jaysus lads. Ye do not remember the discos/dances? Keep your shyness in your pocket! Worse he can say is no, your not trying to ride him!!

Say my name

If it was myself going to farm this I'd get in a topper/ mulcher now and have a clean start then next year. That type of stuff as silage now makes stock loose condition. Speaking from experience on that one.

But first knock on his door. Introduce yourself. Tell him you know the man taking the tillage ground. Say your interested in taking the grassland. And if you're interested in setting it you can contact me on such a mobile number.
Job done.

orchard farm

If it's demense parkland I'd safety say it's good ground if you cleaned it up a bit

TheBoyConor

orchard farm wrote:

If it's demense parkland I'd safety say it's good ground if you cleaned it up a bit

That's definitely true. It's likely very good land underneath the though grass and brush.
The thieving English scum only stole the best of land from the Irish. Left us to the bogs and rocks of the West.

orchard farm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That's definitely true. It's likely very good land underneath the though grass and brush.
The thieving English scum only stole the best of land from the Irish. Left us to the bogs and rocks of the West.

You're right there Ted!!

Dickie10

yea its good land surrounded by the best of tillage land if any of you know dunshauglin/batterstown areas of meath

Keepgrowing

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That's definitely true. It's likely very good land underneath the though grass and brush.
The thieving English scum only stole the best of land from the Irish. Left us to the bogs and rocks of the West.

So, if a person has good land they either stole it or are English scum?

TheFarrier

Dickie10 wrote: »

yea its good land surrounded by the best of tillage land if any of you know dunshauglin/batterstown areas of meath

My mistake

Hagimalone

I don't think there is a need to put the family's name up, I very much doubt they would appreciate a debat about their farm land on a public forum.

TheBoyConor

Keepgrowing wrote:

So, if a person has good land they either stole it or are English scum?

No that's not what I said.

What I was saying is that the English land robbers when they came to Ireland made sure they stole the best, most fertile lands they could find from the Irish. And why wouldn't they? Why works they want to steal bog and mountain when they could steal good land. A few were so greedy they stole mountain areas also so they could build their exotic mansions in scenic settings.

That's not too say Irish people didn't retain some good land or require it, usually after the Protestant English were driven out. And yes, pretty much all the English who theived our land were proddies.

BarryD2

TheBoyConor wrote: »

What I was saying is that the English land robbers when they came to Ireland made sure they stole the best, most fertile lands they could find from the Irish. And why wouldn't they?

Maybe they did in some/ many cases but these estates also often invested heavily in improving their lands. They brought in new farming methods and practices, they drained and limed etc. So if the land is in good heart now, it's a reflection too of all that work.

MickeyShtyles

Dickie10 wrote: »

yea its good land surrounded by the best of tillage land if any of you know dunshauglin/batterstown areas of meath

Trying to think where now!

gozunda

TheBoyConor wrote: »

No that's not what I said.

What I was saying is that the [Norman*] English land robbers when they came to Ireland made sure they stole the best, most fertile lands they could find from the Irish. And why wouldn't they? Why works they want to steal bog and mountain when they could steal good land. A few were so greedy they stole mountain areas also so they could build their exotic mansions in scenic settings.

That's not too say Irish people didn't retain some good land or require it, usually after the Protestant English were driven out. And yes, pretty much all the English who theived our land were proddies.

A large dollop of niave nationalism there? :rolleyes:

Btw fixed that for historical accuracy*. First the Irish are as good as any of grabbing and theiving land off each other - never mind a decent bit of cattle raiding if you take a good look at early Irish history.

Oh and dont forget the looting and pillaging by those Scandavian barstewards the Vikings.
Then those land grabbing ex Frenchies the Normans and where all the Norman castles are built - on the very best of good land. Then those cnuts married into the Irish aristocracy of the time and had a bloody good time lording it over themselves! Yeah those fekin English turned up and did more of the same and worse. But don't get me started on those 'Irish' middlemen who extracted every bloodsoaked penny from the tennants of the absentee landlords and who did far worse than many of the 'proddies' you rail against.

You might want to check yourself out here btw ..

https://www.ancestry.com

Say my name

Before this turns into a schoolyard argument.

Can I just say everyone has the chance to improve their own land and make their own soil.
The reverse is also true.

flatty

I'm sort of in the same situation as you but in reverse. I had three lads keen to rent, one who said he would pay more than anyone else but I was warned to stay well clear of by his cousin, and two other very nice men. The second contacted me a week too late as I'd already shaken hands on a deal with the first man, who basically pays a third less than market, and pays it all in working the fields back to health as they'd been neglected for the most part. He's also done work on a couple of acres I paid him for. Funnily, I'd have been inclined to rent to the last man in other circumstances as he sent me a very nice polite email, and he has kids the same age as mine who could have played together when we are back. Nonetheless, it sounds like the owner is a bit in the same situation as me, where it would suit him for it to be looked after,and may not actually want top dollar. I always verbally agree that the kids can roam on it whenever, and I've just signed a five year deal with the renter as, as he said, it didn't sit right him working to improve it on a one year rolling contract.
Sin e e.
In five years I may rent to someone else for a year just to avoid any squatters rights, though I probably will just insert a break for a few months as I really like the lad who works it now.
I'd just approach the owner, be polite, say that you had heard he had had trouble before and so may not be keen, but if you are as decent as you sound, it would be a win/win, and I'm sure he would hear you out. Some folk are odd, but what's the worst that can happen?

Bass Reeves

flatty wrote: »

I'm sort of in the same situation as you but in reverse. I had three lads keen to rent, one who said he would pay more than anyone else but I was warned to stay well clear of by his cousin, and two other very nice men. The second contacted me a week too late as I'd already shaken hands on a deal with the first man, who basically pays a third less than market, and pays it all in working the fields back to health as they'd been neglected for the most part. He's also done work on a couple of acres I paid him for. Funnily, I'd have been inclined to rent to the last man in other circumstances as he sent me a very nice polite email, and he has kids the same age as mine who could have played together when we are back. Nonetheless, it sounds like the owner is a bit in the same situation as me, where it would suit him for it to be looked after,and may not actually want top dollar. I always verbally agree that the kids can roam on it whenever, and I've just signed a five year deal with the renter as, as he said, it didn't sit right him working to improve it on a one year rolling contract.
Sin e e.
In five years I may rent to someone else for a year just to avoid any squatters rights, though I probably will just insert a break for a few months as I really like the lad who works it now.
I'd just approach the owner, be polite, say that you had heard he had had trouble before and so may not be keen, but if you are as decent as you sound, it would be a win/win, and I'm sure he would hear you out. Some folk are odd, but what's the worst that can happen?

Squatters rights can only happen if hewas paying you no rent. To enforce squatters rights to have to have unfettered access to land for 12+ years and have not acknowledged the real owners rights. By paying rent you acknowledge the owner.

Sacrolyte

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Squatters rights can only happen if hewas paying you no rent. To enforce squatters rights to have to have unfettered access to land for 12+ years and have not acknowledged the real owners rights. By paying rent you acknowledge the owner.

He’s right flatty

patsy_mccabe

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Squatters rights can only happen if hewas paying you no rent. To enforce squatters rights to have to have unfettered access to land for 12+ years and have not acknowledged the real owners rights. By paying rent you acknowledge the owner.

Keep proper records of rent paid and declare as income with revenue and you will have no problems.

flatty

Grand, will do. Thanks.

Dinzee Conlee

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Keep proper records of rent paid and declare as income with revenue and you will have no problems.

Dont you need to send the rental agreement off to the revenue and pay stamp duty on it...

If you don't, not sure it will qualify for the tax free aspect?

Am sure someone who knows better will be along to explain, but I am pretty sure you have to pay stamp duty on the lease...

charolais0153

gozunda wrote: »

A large dollop of niave nationalism there? :rolleyes:

Btw fixed that for historical accuracy*. First the Irish are as good as any of grabbing and theiving land off each other - never mind a decent bit of cattle raiding if you take a good look at early Irish history.

Oh and dont forget the looting and pillaging by those Scandavian barstewards the Vikings.
Then those land grabbing ex Frenchies the Normans and where all the Norman castles are built - on the very best of good land. Then those cnuts married into the Irish aristocracy of the time and had a bloody good time lording it over themselves! Yeah those fekin English turned up and did more of the same and worse. But don't get me started on those 'Irish' middlemen who extracted every bloodsoaked penny from the tennants of the absentee landlords and who did far worse than many of the 'proddies' you rail against.

You might want to check yourself out here btw ..

https://www.ancestry.com

Wouldnt accept the address or zip code i put down

charolais0153

Say my name wrote: »

Before this turns into a schoolyard argument.

Can I just say everyone has the chance to improve their own land and make their own soil.
The reverse is also true.

Worst Land in donegal is worse than best land in wexford.it is now and forever shall be.

patsy_mccabe

charolais0153 wrote: »

Worst Land in donegal is worse than best land in wexford.it is now and forever shall be.

?????

TalkingBull

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

?????

i think he means "The Best land in Donegal is WORSE than the worst land in wexford"

Say my name

TalkingBull wrote: »

i think he means "The Best land in Donegal is WORSE than the worst land in wexford"

Probably.
And probably hasn't seen the blackstairs.

It'll gradually sink in on people that most people are their own worst enemy when it comes to managing their soil. If farm subsidies do continue in this part of the world in the future mark my words the politicos will link them to the amount of carbon in your soil. No carbon. No payment.

Birdnuts

Say my name wrote: »

Probably.
And probably hasn't seen the blackstairs.

It'll gradually sink in on people that most people are their own worst enemy when it comes to managing their soil. If farm subsidies do continue in this part of the world in the future mark my words the politicos will link them to the amount of carbon in your soil. No carbon. No payment.

I remember reading a piece in a UK Soil Ecology publication last year that said some of the best soils in the country could be in serious trouble soon enough due to the ongoing deplition of organic content ie. fungi etc. due to excessive chemical fert applications, compaction from heavy machinery etc. Its concerning that there is so little knowledge or appreciation of such issues on this side of the pond among our so-called agri experts at state or any other level:(

Say my name

Birdnuts wrote: »

I remember reading a piece in a UK Soil Ecology publication last year that said some of the best soils in the country could be in serious trouble soon enough due to the ongoing deplition of organic content ie. fungi etc. due to excessive chemical fert applications, compaction from heavy machinery etc. Its concerning that there is so little knowledge or appreciation of such issues on this side of the pond among our so-called agri experts at state or any other level:(

Don't worry the word is gradually spreading here from the more advanced parts of the world. I'm gradually seeing it others will too.

A thought struck me the other day. The leading perennial ryegrass breeding stations in Europe are Ireland, Wales and Denmark. These are the wettest places in Europe.
Keep spreading your synthetic fertilisers and soil destroying sprays for your perennial ryegrass and get your big yields as long as it keeps raining. Happy days.
Stop the rain and now with your phucked soil the grass stops growing. There's phuck all carbon in the most "progressive" of farmers soil here too so no moisture retention. Total whamy.

Anyways...

Edit: To show how far behind we are as a country and how far our institutions are in the fert and sprays pockets.
China has made it policy to reduce N use by 50% by 2020. They're going to keep the same level of productivity but drop the fert by half. How..
Switch on over to the Biochar thread.

Meanwhile what's Ireland's level of knowledge on doing such a thing?
Sure I suppose it can't be done if someone in a teagasc or famers journal jacket doesn't know about it or can't be arsed to find out. The lads in those jackets are too well fed anyways to bother.