cork house to be demolished

dhaughton99

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2018/0920/995003-cork-house-demolition/

I know it’s sad that the 2 lads died in the house but for CCC to demolish a perfectly good house due to a superstition is beyond me.

BrokenArrows

Thats insane.

Why does the government bend over backwards to indulge every whim of the traveling community.

They dont own the house so why in the world would they have any say in what happens to the house.

There are plenty of families in need of a good home and they are just going to knock down this one because "its their culture".

shar01

I'd say CorkCC are doing it because a controlled demolition is better than an uncontrolled fire.

CrabRevolution

As said above, the council may as well go first and demolish it before it gets burned down.

BrokenArrows

shar01 wrote: »

I'd say CorkCC are doing it because a controlled demolition is better than an uncontrolled fire.

They are bending to the whim of the traveler community or submitting to intimidation.

Tell the family to **** off and they should have bought and lived in their own caravan if they wanted to burn it afterwards.

If it magically catches fire then they know exactly where to look. A few high definition security cameras around this house and its streets would be a much better spend of tax payers money then knocking down and rebuilding of the house.

Sundew

Sorry, but I personally wouldn’t live in a house where somebody died by such violent means. I’ve no issues with somebody dying a normal death but being stabbed to death....no way!!!

BrokenArrows

Sundew wrote: »

Sorry, but I personally wouldn’t live in a house where somebody died by such violent means. I’ve no issues with somebody dying a normal death but being stabbed to death....no way!!!

What difference does it make?
Unless you believe in ghosts then its not a rational reason not to live somewhere. And if you do believe in ghosts then you need your head examined.

The chances are they many people have died on the very spot where your current home is now, whether it be starvation, disease, war, murder or old age.

BrokenArrows

Id rather they waste 50 years of private security money watching the house to prevent burning rather than to bend to the families superstitions.

Sundew

BrokenArrows wrote: »

What difference does it make?
Unless you believe in ghosts then its not a rational reason not to live somewhere. And if you do believe in ghosts then you need your head examined.

The chances are they many people have died on the very spot where your current home is now, whether it be starvation, disease, war, murder or old age.

Don’t believe in ghosts, but I’m just saying I think a lot of people would be very uncomfortable, even staying overnight in a room, where 3 people were bludgeoned to death. Maybe I’m more sensitive then you ;-)

I guess if you live in London chances are you ain’t too far from a building where somebody died a violent death! As for me well a few Bronze Age guys were probably the only fellas near my house that possibly died a violent death!

BrokenArrows

Sundew wrote: »

Don’t believe in ghosts, but I’m just saying I think a lot of people would be very uncomfortable, even staying overnight in a room, where 3 people were bludgeoned to death. Maybe I’m more sensitive then you ;-)

I guess if you live in London chances are you ain’t too far from a building where somebody died a violent death! As for me well a few Bronze Age guys were probably the only fellas near my house that possibly died a violent death!

What is it about the house that makes you uncomfortable?
Its location? What if they moved the house exactly as is but a few miles away. Still an problem?
The floor where they were killed on? If you replace the floor is it still an issue?
If you replaced one bit of the house every day, how long before the house no longer makes you uncomfortable?

Anyway uncomfortable or not, the council shouldnt spend money knocking and rebuilding.

If the travelers burn it down then the house will be insured and let the insurance pay for the rebuild, not the tax payer. I fact thats probably the most desirable situation. Free house + possibility to put someone in jail who deserves to be there.

dhaughton99

Sundew wrote: »

Don’t believe in ghosts, but I’m just saying I think a lot of people would be very uncomfortable, even staying overnight in a room, where 3 people were bludgeoned to death. Maybe I’m more sensitive then you ;-)

I guess if you live in London chances are you ain’t too far from a building where somebody died a violent death! As for me well a few Bronze Age guys were probably the only fellas near my house that possibly died a violent death!

There’s a funeral home just down from the Crumlin children’s hospital, which has been converted in flats. And when I say converted, I mean internal walls put up and bathrooms installed. No other real changes. Imagine the amount of ghosts you’d see in there.

freshpopcorn

I'm just trying to think back to this case.
From what I remember the boys mother is living in a caravan in the back garden.(She was in the past).
Also from what I remember about the area they are several bungalow on the N20 some of them would be council houses and others may have being bought by them over the years. These house travellers.
It would be very hard for them to house another traveller family in one of these houses due to them being so superstitious.(I wonder would this be in there minority status?)
There option then would be to move the woman in question to another house and fill this one with a settled family but I believe they'd find it difficult to house somebody in this house for multiple reasons.

Sundew

dhaughton99 wrote: »

There’s a funeral home just down from the Crumlin children’s hospital, which has been converted in flats. And when I say converted, I mean internal walls put up and bathrooms installed. No other real changes. Imagine the amount of ghosts you’d see in there.

Have no issue with flats on the site of a funeral home/ morgue. Folks were only resting there. I already stated that I had no issue with living/ staying in a house where somebody died of natural causes ( my own Nan died in her own home). I think many folks even some boardsies,would not be comfortable sleeping/ riding/ whatever else ya do in the privacy of your own home without their chi being upset. If it doesn’t bother ya well good for you......ya might just get a good house at a knocked down price!

Wonder has this house been knocked down!
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/knock-down-joe-oreilly-murder-house-and-build-again-victim-rachels-dad-31106751.html

freshpopcorn

Sundew wrote: »

Wonder has this house been knocked down!
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/knock-down-joe-oreilly-murder-house-and-build-again-victim-rachels-dad-31106751.html

It was sold a few years ago.
They spruced up the garden and done it up, put in new windows, etc.

Gimme A Pound

This isn't a "little whim" in fairness - the case was beyond horrific. The guard on the scene was so traumatised she had to take leave. The boys were stabbed over and over and over. I could understand anyone not wanting to move in there, even if it's not rational. I can certainly understand the family no longer being able to live there.

As for the family wanting the property to be destroyed, I would cut them some slack. I have no reservations about being critical of the negative sides to traveller culture but this should be set aside considering what they have suffered. I remember that poor woman (whose little sons had just been stabbed to death by her other son, who then killed himself - I don't think people are fully grasping what happened) being interviewed and she seemed like a lovely, decent person.

This is superstition and trauma talking. While I wouldn't agree with the council just demolishing the house because they were asked to, I've no doubt it's a decision not taken lightly or made quickly. The decision has not even been made for definite in fairness.

BrokenArrows

Dont knock it down.
Sell it to me at a massive discount. Ill take it no problem.

freshpopcorn

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Dont knock it down.
Sell it to me at a massive discount. Ill take it no problem.

To the best of knowledge they are several traveller houses in a row here.
I know people and they'd feel uncomfortable about this.
They might also be a stigma against you for buying a cursed house.

BrokenArrows

freshpopcorn wrote: »

To the best of knowledge they are several traveller houses in a row here.
I know people and they'd feel uncomfortable about this.
They might also be a stigma against you for buying a cursed house.

For a big discount id be ok with stigma and neighbors.

Eric Cartman

BrokenArrows wrote: »

For a big discount id be ok with stigma and neighbors.

they'd come in leaving weird Mary statues on the doorstep and laying flowers and other crap to intimidate you out.

also the potential for a 'random' fire and every valuable metal stripped.

the reality of it is that house isn't staying up and liveable one way or another.

But yes, giving into this lot is a damn nightmare.

jimmycrackcorm

Sundew wrote:

Sorry, but I personally wouldn’t live in a house where somebody died by such violent means. I’ve no issues with somebody dying a normal death but being stabbed to death....no way!!!

You don't have to live there. But in the midst of a housing crisis there are purple who would be glad of a house and aren't superstitious, or just don't let themselves get affected by the history u of the place.

Kintarō Hattori

Sundew wrote: »

Have no issue with flats on the site of a funeral home/ morgue. Folks were only resting there. I already stated that I had no issue with living/ staying in a house where somebody died of natural causes ( my own Nan died in her own home). I think many folks even some boardsies,would not be comfortable sleeping/ riding/ whatever else ya do in the privacy of your own home without their chi being upset. If it doesn’t bother ya well good for you......ya might just get a good house at a knocked down price!

Wonder has this house been knocked down!
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/knock-down-joe-oreilly-murder-house-and-build-again-victim-rachels-dad-31106751.html

No it hasn't. I was unwittingly interested in it. The estate agent mentioned there had been an incident there and he was obliged to tell me. Scratching my head wondering what it could be it dawned on me and I asked was someone murdered there. We were outside the place at the time when the For Sale sign was up. Googled it and my partner lost all interest in it. I wouldn't have minded living there but she was a stone cold no.

dhaughton99

BrokenArrows wrote: »

For a big discount id be ok with stigma and neighbors.

Stigma = Curse

Sleepy

FFS. Given what freshpopcorn is saying knocking the house really does sound like the best option the council have but it's ****ing sickening to have to waste state money due to ignorant superstition.

I'd have no problem living in a "murder house", in fact, I'd be delighted to get the opportunity to buy something for such a steep discount. Although, judging from the property price register, there must have been a bidding war for it if the asking was 125k and it ended up going for 206k. Still 206k for .7 of an acre in North County Dublin? Nice deal.

https://propertypriceregisterireland.com/details/lambay_view_baldar_naul_co_dublin_ireland-162407/

Gimme A Pound

Eric Cartman wrote: »

they'd come in leaving weird Mary statues on the doorstep and laying flowers and other crap to intimidate you out.

also the potential for a 'random' fire and every valuable metal stripped.

the reality of it is that house isn't staying up and liveable one way or another.

But yes, giving into this lot is a damn nightmare.

It's not "this lot", it's the family of two young children stabbed to death only four years ago.

The lack of ****s given about what happened is quite remarkable.

Sleepy

Sundew wrote: »

Sorry, but I personally wouldn’t live in a house where somebody died by such violent means. I’ve no issues with somebody dying a normal death but being stabbed to death....no way!!!

Jovanni Small Sheriff wrote: »

It's not "this lot", it's the family of two young children stabbed to death only four years ago.

The lack of ****s given about what happened is quite remarkable.

it's the family of two young children stabbed to death by one of their other children

Act like and raise animals and don't be surprised when people don't have sympathy for you.

Sundew

Sleepy wrote: »

it's the family of two young children stabbed to death by one of their other children

Act like and raise animals and don't be surprised when people don't have sympathy for you.

I think this is really disgusting. Whilst I’m not a big fan of the shenanigans of certain travellers these two young boys were stabbed by somebody who was severely mentally ill ( traveller or not!) . Anyhow this is going off topic but I will say I know of two cases where ordinary Joes were tragically killed by family members in similar cases to this. Both houses locked up and not lived in again! * They were not members of the traveling community.

Mrs OBumble

BrokenArrows wrote: »

If the travelers burn it down then the house will be insured and let the insurance pay for the rebuild, not the tax payer.

If this was privately owned, the insurance company would likely have cancelled their cover the day after the incident.

However I'm pretty sure that councils self-insure, so it would still be the taxpayer picking up the bill.

Travellers aren't the only culture with traditions like this.

Gimme A Pound

Sleepy wrote: »

it's the family of two young children stabbed to death by one of their other children

It's the family of two young children who were stabbed to death. How the hell does it matter who killed them?

He killed them because of mental illness and then he killed himself.

You don't know that this isn't a decent traveller family - by all accounts they are.

Absolutely sick post.

BrokenArrows

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Travellers aren't the only culture with traditions like this.

I have no problems with the tradition. Its the fact that they dont own the house that they would like to destroy.

If they want to burn their own houses or caravans then ive no problems with that. But there is a big difference between burning a ****ty caravan only worth a few grand that they own and destroying a house worth a lot more that they dont own.

How about if it wasnt council owned. How about if it was a privately rented property. Its the fact that its council owned and its "government money" that makes you think its ok.

Its a horrible thing to happen to any family. But doesnt excuse this insanity.

Kintarō Hattori

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd have no problem living in a "murder house", in fact, I'd be delighted to get the opportunity to buy something for such a steep discount. Although, judging from the property price register, there must have been a bidding war for it if the asking was 125k and it ended up going for 206k. Still 20k for .7 of an acre in North County Dublin? Nice deal.

https://propertypriceregisterireland.com/details/lambay_view_baldar_naul_co_dublin_ireland-162407/

I think they hadn't expected interest to be as high as it was. It initially appeared at €125,000 but after a lot of interest the price was put up. It was too cheap at its initial price as despite its history it's in a fantastic location with views of Dublin Bay in the distance.

rom

Many that are commenting on this wouldn't dream in living in a house outside of Dublin. The house should be knocked. Ian Huntley house was also knocked and it was owned by the town.

the_syco

Sundew wrote: »

Sorry, but I personally wouldn’t live in a house where somebody died by such violent means. I’ve no issues with somebody dying a normal death but being stabbed to death....no way!!!

A cheap house is a cheap house. Although the only reason why I wouldn't buy a house that a traveller died in it is because their backwards culture demands that they burn it, and I'd be down a house.

How about they pay for it, and then they can burn it down, as the filth think they can go around burning stuff that they do not own.

Actually, can I claim my spirits are in their caravans, and torch them?

Jovanni Small Sheriff wrote: »

As for the family wanting the property to be destroyed, I would cut them some slack.

They want it demolished, and the same house built on top of it. The ghosts will still be there; it'll just be a newer house.

Or how about the house gets levelled, and boulders put around it so that no caravans can be parked there to mark where they died.

Jovanni Small Sheriff wrote: »

It's not "this lot", it's the family of two young children stabbed to death only four years ago.

The lack of ****s given about what happened is quite remarkable.

They're demanding that a new house gets built. They don't give two fcuks about the children; they just want another house. Any other apartment/house that I've seen them burn (often rented from a private landlord), they go away, and don't live there again. Here, they want to burn it, and they also want it replaced so that they can live there.

We have a fcukload of people homeless, and they want a house rebuilt for them.

Jovanni Small Sheriff wrote: »

The lack of ****s given about what happened is quite remarkable.

The lack of sh|t given is because they don't seem to burn their own houses. They burn houses owned by private landlords, claim it was their culture, and leave it for the landlord to pick up the tab.

Gimme A Pound

Where does it say they want a new house built on the site for them and where does it say anything about burning?

There's a lot of "they" talk - this is one family, not all the criminal elements of traveller culture. You're taking some leap by saying they don't give a **** about the boys. You're the one who doesn't give a **** about the boys.

Sundew

the_syco wrote: »

A cheap house is a cheap house.

Syco: Here are a few houses you could have picked up for a song but I’d say it would be a brave boy who would have made an offer to buy one of these notorious houses!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4037870/The-houses-horrors-sinister-properties-notorious-serial-killers-including-Yorkshire-Ripper-Fred-Rose-West-unleashed-heinous-crimes.html

This story has nothing to do with it being travellers involved! It is to do with the tragic circumstances surrounding the deaths!

Even the World Trade Centre was not rebuilt on the footprint of the original buildings after an outcry from family members and the general public!

BrokenArrows

Sundew wrote: »

Syco: Here are a few houses you could have picked up for a song but I’d say it would be a brave boy who would have made an offer to buy one of these notorious houses!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4037870/The-houses-horrors-sinister-properties-notorious-serial-killers-including-Yorkshire-Ripper-Fred-Rose-West-unleashed-heinous-crimes.html

This story has nothing to do with it being travellers involved! It is to do with the tragic circumstances surrounding the deaths!

Even the World Trade Centre was not rebuilt on the footprint of the original buildings after an outcry from family members and the general public!

What a waste. Really is strange that people don't want to live in properties where bad things happen. The property has no relation to the action.

Edgware

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If this was privately owned, the insurance company would likely have cancelled their cover the day after the incident.

However I'm pretty sure that councils self-insure, so it would still be the taxpayer picking up the bill.

Travellers aren't the only culture with traditions like this.

It was tradition to have six year old kids clean chimneys in Victorian times and tradition to send unmarried mothers into Magdalenn laundries. So what? Times change and traditions are remembered but not maintained. If the travellers want to maintain the tradition of burning property where a death occurs let them provide their own accommodation instead of leeching off the taxpayer
There are plenty of people who pay no heed to this superstitious old ****e who will take the house if offered

the_syco

Sundew wrote: »

Syco: Here are a few houses you could have picked up for a song but I’d say it would be a brave boy who would have made an offer to buy one of these notorious houses!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4037870/The-houses-horrors-sinister-properties-notorious-serial-killers-including-Yorkshire-Ripper-Fred-Rose-West-unleashed-heinous-crimes.html

This story has nothing to do with it being travellers involved! It is to do with the tragic circumstances surrounding the deaths!

Even the World Trade Centre was not rebuilt on the footprint of the original buildings after an outcry from family members and the general public!

Looked through the list. Houses were either torn down, and left torn down, or the existing houses were renovated.

The travellers seem to want the house torn down, and rebuilt in the same place.

It'll be humorous if the travellers do decide to burn the house themselves, and a few of the other traveller houses go up in flames as well.

Mrs OBumble

Edgware wrote: »

There are plenty of people who pay no heed to this superstitious old ****e who will take the house if offered

Have you been to Charleville lately? Is there much of a housing list there, do you know?

freshpopcorn

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Have you been to Charleville lately? Is there much of a housing list there, do you know?

My take on the situation on North Cork is that it's no where near as bad as Dublin/etc.
Most people find somewhere fast enough Lots of people in private housing esatses in rented houses waiting to be housed in council houses.

They are caravans parked outside houses in the odd place. One that was in the news in Fermoy from earlier in the Summer. When they tried to land a mobile home into a green area in an esate but the residents kicked up a fuss.
They had a big sob story about being homeless and being evicted but it turned out they had a lot of issues in their previous rented houses.

Guy:Incognito

Jovanni Small Sheriff wrote: »

This isn't a "little whim" in fairness - the case was beyond horrific. The guard on the scene was so traumatised she had to take leave. The boys were stabbed over and over and over. I could understand anyone not wanting to move in there, even if it's not rational. I can certainly understand the family no longer being able to live there.

As for the family wanting the property to be destroyed, I would cut them some slack. I have no reservations about being critical of the negative sides to traveller culture but this should be set aside considering what they have suffered. I remember that poor woman (whose little sons had just been stabbed to death by her other son, who then killed himself - I don't think people are fully grasping what happened) being interviewed and she seemed like a lovely, decent person.

This is superstition and trauma talking. While I wouldn't agree with the council just demolishing the house because they were asked to, I've no doubt it's a decision not taken lightly or made quickly. The decision has not even been made for definite in fairness.

The tradition is to burn/destroy the home where the person died, not just because they were murdered. They'd be looking for the same thing if they'd had heart attacks.

Not a president that should be set.

As has been said, feel free to burn down a house you own ( assuming you don't then try to claim insurance ) But if you're renting then your tradition doesn't get preference.

What happens of its a terraced house?

Cedrus

Let the family buy the house and knock it if that is their cultural / emotional need, but in the current housing shortage it should be replaced with those funds, in the same area by an equal house for a family without these superstitions.

bleary

I don't agree with the house being knocked down but I increasingly have to check if I'm in after hours for most threads.
If I posted half the things said about travellers about any other group I can think of , I would be banned.

Graham

Mod Note

folks, there are several posts in this thread that fall way below the standard expected in A & P. Raise the bar or don't post.