Horizon 4

Wabbit Ears

Horizon 4 as officially launched at the Liberty Global tech summit yesterday. This is the replacement for the current horizon platform.


https://vimeo.com/290256441
https://vimeo.com/290850092
https://www.facebook.com/LibertyGlobal/

ED E

https://www.multichannel.com/news/liberty-global-looks-to-regain-euro-video-momentum-with-horizon-4

Hopefully it'll be far snappier than the current offering.

JDxtra

One of their bullet points is "more modern design". Well then, count me in!

They have a bad track record here. If they fixed the bugs with the current Horizon implementation instead of just adding more bells and whistles to a new version, then they'd be in better shape.

Wabbit Ears

JDxtra wrote: »

If they fixed the bugs with the current Horizon implementation instead of just adding more bells and whistles to a new version, then they'd be in better shape.

The old version was very flawed and theyve done the right thing IMHO in dumping that and going with a brand new platform.

Johnboy1951

Are there other devices on the Irish market using the same platform (RDK)?

ED E

As far as I can tell no, X1 and horizon will be the first real deployments.


rdkcentral.com is a ****ing farce. Every external link 404s. If you can't build a website your hopes for an OS stack are pretty poor..... :rolleyes:

PS: Intel are working with Comcast so this may end up being another PUMA junker.

icdg

Here’s the press release - and confirmation, if any was needed, that this is indeed the V6 box with a different name and a different UI.

https://www.libertyglobal.com/liberty-global-launches-next-generation-entertainment-platform-horizon-4/

They need to fix multiroom. They never deployed the Horizon multiroom box and because of that are now miles behind Sky Q in that department. The sluggish UI on Horizon doesn’t help.

Johnboy1951

ED E wrote: »

As far as I can tell no, X1 and horizon will be the first real deployments.


rdkcentral.com is a ****ing farce. Every external link 404s. If you can't build a website your hopes for an OS stack are pretty poor..... :rolleyes:

PS: Intel are working with Comcast so this may end up being another PUMA junker.

I only tried a couple of external links .... github & wiki ... and they worked ok.

I don't recall noticing any other external links

JDxtra

On the plus side, recordings are stored in the cloud. Which is a positive move if they implement it right. On a good cable network like Virgin have, storing recordings on local boxes doesn't make sense - so this change will reduce box production costs and allow easy box swap outs if there are issues.

Lets see if any rights issues come into play with content providers complaining.

Wabbit Ears

JDxtra wrote: »

On the plus side, recordings are stored in the cloud. Which is a positive move if they implement it right. On a good cable network like Virgin have, storing recordings on local boxes doesn't make sense - so this change will reduce box production costs and allow easy box swap outs if there are issues.

Lets see if any rights issues come into play with content providers complaining.

Its unlikley that ireland will have all recordings in the cloud due to access rights. It will most likley be a mix of cloud based and disk based recordings. RTE and BBC are notoriously bad for granting any sort of next gen style content rights.

mackersdublin

Anyone know when this could be available. Ireland isn't mentioned in any of the links above

Hogzy

Its disgraceful that the Horizon platform was ever released to the market let alone kept on the market for so long. Its not a finished product in any way shape or form!

ED E

mackersdublin wrote: »

Anyone know when this could be available. Ireland isn't mentioned in any of the links above

If the UK haven't got it yet, 2yrs.

sweetie

ED E wrote:

If the UK haven't got it yet, 2yrs.

So its not on the horizon then

bk

ED E wrote: »

If the UK haven't got it yet, 2yrs.

Well it is actually using the same hardware (set top box) as the UK already has with their V6 platform.

Though V6 uses Tivo, while this will use their own Horizon RDK platform on the same hardware, so not quite the same.

It will be interesting to see if we end up with V6 or Horizon 4 here.

JDxtra

I'm sure the hardware will be fine, but I predict that software will be riddled with bugs making it frustrating to use.

ted1

JDxtra wrote: »

On the plus side, recordings are stored in the cloud. Which is a positive move if they implement it right. On a good cable network like Virgin have, storing recordings on local boxes doesn't make sense - so this change will reduce box production costs and allow easy box swap outs if there are issues.

Lets see if any rights issues come into play with content providers complaining.

That’s a pain. If your network is down you can’t axcess recordings. Hard drives are cheap

The Cush

ED E wrote: »

If the UK haven't got it yet, 2yrs.

From Liberty's own press release

The new, modern-design Horizon 4 set-top box has already been introduced as the ‘V6 box’ in the UK, where nearly 2 million customers are now using it in combination with TiVo software.

https://www.libertyglobal.com/liberty-global-launches-next-generation-entertainment-platform-horizon-4/

Hogzy

ted1 wrote: »

That’s a pain. If your network is down you can’t axcess recordings. Hard drives are cheap

It makes more sense to have them stored in the cloud! The benefits of having recordings stored on servers FAR outweighs having them on local storage.

JDxtra

If the network is down, will a Horizon box even boot?

ted1

Hogzy wrote: »

It makes more sense to have them stored in the cloud! The benefits of having recordings stored on servers FAR outweighs having them on local storage.

What benefits for the user is there ?

Hogzy

ted1 wrote: »

What benefits for the user is there ?

Increased storage of recordings, recordings can be watched on multiple devices, pause on one device and pick up on another...have you not watched the launch videos going through the features?

The only drawback I see is not being able to access recordings when the internet is out. I dont even know if the Horizon box works as is without internet. I dont think it does.

What other benefits are there of having recordings stored locally?

ted1

Hogzy wrote: »

Increased storage of recordings, recordings can be watched on multiple devices, pause on one device and pick up on another...have you not watched the launch videos going through the features?

The only drawback I see is not being able to access recordings when the internet is out. I dont even know if the Horizon box works as is without internet. I dont think it does.

What other benefits are there of having recordings stored locally?

Increased storage ? Dky Q has a 2 TB drive. Plenty of storage.

Recordings watched on multiple devices. , sky Q does that with a local hard drive

Benefits is watching while network is slow or down. No need to buffer videos, streaming 4K uses lots bandwidth so slows your connection for other devices.

Hogzy

ted1 wrote: »

Increased storage ? Dky Q has a 2 TB drive. Plenty of storage.

Recordings watched on multiple devices. , sky Q does that with a local hard drive

Benefits is watching while network is slow or down. No need to buffer videos, streaming 4K uses lots bandwidth so slows your connection for other devices.

Im not trying to argue with you but I stream plenty of UHD content on netflix and it doesnt slow down my connection. Now mind you Im getting 350mb with Virgin and a UHD stream requires max 70mb and I have no doubt that if you buy this new service VM will offer you will be forced to take their broadband. Removing the local storage seems like a totally logical move for any digital content provider. Instead of having to buy hard drives for milliosn of media boxes (most of which will never reach capacity) they can buy a data centre fill it with servers and provide more capacity to those who need it. It makes perfect sense!

Sky offer 2TB of storage but charge the customer accordingly! Its not free!

Wabbit Ears

hard drives, relativly speaking, are not cheap. In general the harddrive alone costs more than the rest of the box.

NPVR (cloud recordings) have lots of advantages. This day in age your internet being down should really be the exception rather than the norm and the mimimum Virgin speeds wouldnt bat an eyelid playing a HD or a 4k recording over IP.

Wabbit Ears

The Cush wrote: »

From Liberty's own press release

The V6 is similar but not the same. Its integrated with Tivo where the liberty one newly released one is not.

The Cush

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

The V6 is similar but not the same. Its integrated with Tivo where the liberty one newly released one is not.

Yes, I assumed that from the press release as there was no other mention of TIVO other than the UK version

bk

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

The V6 is similar but not the same. Its integrated with Tivo where the liberty one newly released one is not.

It seems to be the same hardware. I suspect the plan is that once Horizon 4 is well tested and working well, they will drop Tivo and put Horizon 4 on the UK boxes.

Interesting to note that RDK platform they are using for Horizon, is also used by Comcast in the US, who now own Sky. It will be interesting to see where Comcast/Sky go too.

On the HDD vs Cloud. The best option is a mix of both. Giving licensing issues in Ireland I suspect the Horizon 4 boxes will have a HDD, just like the V6 box does in the UK (2TB).

hard drives, relativly speaking, are not cheap. In general the harddrive alone costs more than the rest of the box.

Which ignores the fact that you need a lot of HDD's for a cloud service too. And usually those HDD's are enterprise grade ones, which are almost twice the cost of consumer ones and you also need a data center and racks of HDD's with UPS and redundant power supplies and redundant internet connections and big power needs, etc.

Of course you can benefit from some de-duping, if the license allows (it often doesn't).

But often it can be cheaper to just drop a cheap consumer HDD in the Set Top Box, then build out an entire cloud service.

Hogzy

bk wrote: »

It seems to be the same hardware. I suspect the plan is that once Horizon 4 is well tested and working well, they will drop Tivo and put Horizon 4 on the UK boxes.

Interesting to note that RDK platform they are using for Horizon, is also used by Comcast in the US, who now own Sky. It will be interesting to see where Comcast/Sky go too.

On the HDD vs Cloud. The best option is a mix of both. Giving licensing issues in Ireland I suspect the Horizon 4 boxes will have a HDD, just like the V6 box does in the UK (2TB).



Which ignores the fact that you need a lot of HDD's for a cloud service too. And usually those HDD's are enterprise grade ones, which are almost twice the cost of consumer ones and you also need a data center and racks of HDD's with UPS and redundant power supplies and redundant internet connections and big power needs, etc.

Of course you can benefit from some de-duping, if the license allows (it often doesn't).

But often it can be cheaper to just drop a cheap consumer HDD in the Set Top Box, then build out an entire cloud service.

The number of hard drives needed for the data centre might be a lot less though. For example if 1,000,000 people record the champions league final and say its 5GB in size. Then they need 5,000,000GB (or whatever the smaller denomination is in Exabytes or whatever) in local storage. Where as Virgin/Liberty Global could have one copy of the Champions League Final (a dedicated streamable copy) which requires only 5GB of space in the server and that can be streamed to the 1,000,000 when they need it. Now the legalities of this might be an issue but that aside the use of cloud storage is WAYYYYYYYYY more efficient than local storage.

bk

It is unfortunately a lot more complicated then that. If you are streaming to a million people, your not going to get away with just one (or three) copies on a HDD. You will need a massive network of cache servers to feed that many people, lots of bandwidth, etc. And cache servers usually use RAM and SSD's, which are WAY more expensive then HDD's.

Of course it is doable, obviously Netflix and Youtube do it like that.

But if you have your own broadcast network, then a hybrid model tends to make more sense, it helps keep the pressure off the data centers.

Consumer HDD aren't expensive, a 2TB is only €60 retail, which of course Virgin aren't paying retail, probably half that. Data centers aren't cheap either, specially when video is involved.

Hogzy

bk wrote: »

It is unfortunately a lot more complicated then that. If you are streaming to a million people, your not going to get away with just one (or three) copies on a HDD. You will need a massive network of cache servers to feed that many people, lots of bandwidth, etc. And cache servers usually use RAM and SSD's, which are WAY more expensive then HDD's.

Of course it is doable, obviously Netflix and Youtube do it like that.

But if you have your own broadcast network, then a hybrid model tends to make more sense, it helps keep the pressure off the data centers.

Consumer HDD aren't expensive, a 2TB is only €60 retail, which of course Virgin aren't paying retail, probably half that. Data centers aren't cheap either, specially when video is involved.

No I appreciate its not that simple to be fair. They could always put a medioce 320gb hard drive in and make it user upgradeable (THink PS3/PS4)...Might work.

Bodan

The Swiss got the new box on October the 3rd and have posted some videos. The interface looks a lot better in terms of performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DACxTo6BZp0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL-2YDra2l8

Tigerandahalf

Bodan wrote: »

The Swiss got the new box on October the 3rd and have posted some videos. The interface looks a lot better in terms of performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DACxTo6BZp0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL-2YDra2l8

Interesting one on 'the take content abroad'. Would that be recordings/on demand downloaded to a tablet and you could view abroad? It would be great to have something like that on the new boxes coming out, hopefully on the new freesat box.

Bodan

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Interesting one on 'the take content abroad'. Would that be recordings/on demand downloaded to a tablet and you could view abroad? It would be great to have something like that on the new boxes coming out, hopefully on the new freesat box.

I read an article where it said the box comes with cloud storage that offers 2,000 hours of recordings and it didnt matter whether they are in Hd or Sd. Though im not sure Virgin will implement that here given the rights issues they seem to have with replay tv.

Delta2113

Rights issues means guaranteed hard drive.

mackersdublin

Bodan wrote: »

The Swiss got the new box on October the 3rd and have posted some videos. The interface looks a lot better in terms of performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL-2YDra2l8

The box and especially the remote look so much better