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New Coin

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    #2
    Jim Bob Scratcher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭Jim Bob Scratcher


    I bet Migey D Higgins won't have to pay 60 euro for one.


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    #3
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    What I want to know is when will they get rid of 1 and 2c coins?

    Useless shrapnel.


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    #4
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    What I want to know is when will they get rid of 1 and 2c coins?

    Useless shrapnel.


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    #5
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    I'd like to buy one. Pay with four fifteen euro coins. That'd have them thinking for a while.


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    #6
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,503 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Anyone who got the €100 1916 commemoration gold coin made a bit of a killing.


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    #7
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    What I want to know is when will they get rid of 1 and 2c coins?

    Useless shrapnel.

    Lots of shops have.


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    #8
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    What I want to know is when will they get rid of 1 and 2c coins?

    Useless shrapnel.

    It'll happen about, ooh, 3 years ago?


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    #9
    Snotty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭Snotty


    Jay Dee wrote: »
    .
    Is this even legal ?

    What, the selling something for more than you "think" it's worth, or the €15 coin?


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    #10
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,503 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    It's legal, but not compulsory.


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    #11
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Excellent, it will fit snugly in my Hugo Boss fitted suit.


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    #12
    FanadMan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭FanadMan


    What the hell is wrong with you children? This is a Rory Gallagher commemoration coin! If I had the money, I'd buy one. Hell, if I had enough money I'd buy a few of them.


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    #13
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    FanadMan wrote: »
    What the hell is wrong with you children? This is a Rory Gallagher commemoration coin! If I had the money, I'd buy one. Hell, if I had enough money I'd buy a few of them.

    Where does the money go?


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    #14
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    paleoperson wrote: »
    Where does the money go?
    To the Central Bank.

    Seigneurage is the technical term for the profit made by a currency issuer on the difference between the cost of producing the notes/coin and their value on issue. The Central Bank earns seigneurage on all the currency it issues, since it all costs less than face value to produce. Seigneurage is mostly a loan - when a note or coin is worn out it is returned to the Bank who have to refund the value they received when they issued it. But a proportion of notes and coins are never returned, so the Bank gets to keep the seigneurage permanently. Commemorative issues like this are generally never returned.

    They'll probably earn a somewhat higher rate of seigneurage on this particular currency (though possibly not; with such a small number of coins being minted, the unit cost of minting each coin could be quite high).

    Either way, because of the small number of coins involved the amount of seigneurage will be trivial in the overall financing of the Bank.


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    #15
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    A thumb of gold, by god, to gauge an oat


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    #16
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Jay Dee wrote: »
    Is this even legal ?
    If not, how do you get in on the act ??
    Anyone can issue and sell commemorative "coins" for any price they like, as long as they don't hold them out as being legal tender.


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    #17
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,001 ✭✭✭mad m


    I bought Michael Collins commemorative coins for my dad , think they were 90 euro for the 2 in a special box. They are on eBay from 190-275 so happy out, well not that he’d sell them.


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    #18
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    To the Central Bank.

    Seigneurage is the technical term for the profit made by a currency issuer on the difference between the cost of producing the notes/coin and their value on issue. The Central Bank earns seigneurage on all the currency it issues, since it all costs less than face value to produce. Seigneurage is mostly a loan - when a note or coin is worn out it is returned to the Bank who have to refund the value they received when they issued it. But a proportion of notes and coins are never returned, so the Bank gets to keep the seigneurage permanently. Commemorative issues like this are generally never returned.

    They'll probably earn a somewhat higher rate of seigneurage on this particular currency (though possibly not; with such a small number of coins being minted, the unit cost of minting each coin could be quite high).

    Either way, because of the small number of coins involved the amount of seigneurage will be trivial in the overall financing of the Bank.

    Incorrect. The correct answer is “to the Man”.


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    #19
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Anyone can issue and sell commemorative "coins" for any price they like, as long as they don't hold them out as being legal tender.

    Presumably this is legal tender although you’d be stupid to use it at face value.


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    #20
    The Tetrarch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    A Phil Lynott coin due in 2019. :)


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    #21
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Presumably this is legal tender although you’d be stupid to use it at face value.
    This one is legal tender, and commemorative coins which are legal tender have a certain cachet as collectible items precisely because there are relatively few institutions authorised to make legal tender issues. Therefore they are more valuable as collectors' items than the non-legal tender alternatives. But of course that enhanced value makes it less and less likely that they will ever actually be spent as legal tender.


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    #22
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Jay Dee wrote: »
    Is this even legal?
    The secret is in the words "legal tender"


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    #23
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    biko wrote: »
    The secret is in the words "legal tender"

    is it legal to release 'legal tender' at four times its face value? surely it should only cost what it's legally worth


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    #24
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    To the Central Bank.

    Seigneurage is the technical term for the profit made by a currency issuer on the difference between the cost of producing the notes/coin and their value on issue. The Central Bank earns seigneurage on all the currency it issues, since it all costs less than face value to produce. Seigneurage is mostly a loan - when a note or coin is worn out it is returned to the Bank who have to refund the value they received when they issued it. But a proportion of notes and coins are never returned, so the Bank gets to keep the seigneurage permanently. Commemorative issues like this are generally never returned.

    They'll probably earn a somewhat higher rate of seigneurage on this particular currency (though possibly not; with such a small number of coins being minted, the unit cost of minting each coin could be quite high).

    Either way, because of the small number of coins involved the amount of seigneurage will be trivial in the overall financing of the Bank.

    What a scam. I thought the commemoration organization or a related facility would get something out of it but nothing?

    That's insane. :confused:

    And he is telling us:
    FanadMan wrote: »
    What the hell is wrong with you children? This is a Rory Gallagher commemoration coin! If I had the money, I'd buy one. Hell, if I had enough money I'd buy a few of them.

    So come back a minute FanadMan, explain yourself, what is wrong with people? Why should anyone buy "money" at four times its cost. What good will it do to anyone except pissing money down the toilet?


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    #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    paleoperson wrote: »
    So come back a minute FanadMan, explain yourself, what is wrong with people? Why should anyone buy "money" at four times its cost. What good will it do to anyone except pissing money down the toilet?
    if it's any consolation, the Central Bank of Ireland hands over all of its profit to the State every year.

    It's the least evil financial institution ever to have opened its doors in this country. Well, apart from that fat-robot-lookalike it erected on Dame Street


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    #26
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    pleas advice wrote: »
    is it legal to release 'legal tender' at four times its face value? surely it should only cost what it's legally worth
    Of course it's legal. Why wouldn't it be?
    paleoperson wrote: »
    Why should anyone buy "money" at four times its cost.
    All currency is issued for more than it costs to produce. What, you think the Central Bank spends 20 cents minting a 10-cent coin?
    pleas advice wrote: »
    What good will it do to anyone except pissing money down the toilet?
    In this case, the people who buy the coins (of whom I will not be one) will be paying for the souvenir value of a commemorative edition, and in some cases in at least the hope that the coin will have a collectible value - i.e. you can laer sell it to other collectors for more than face value.

    This is't a novel idea. There's a huge market in collectible coins, stamps, etc, most of which sell for more than their face value. Whether these particular coins will, in the future, trade at more than their issue price remains to be seen. I suspect the chances of huge profits for collectors are not great; the whole point of pricing commemorative issues like this is to try to capture for the taxpayer some or all of the "collectibility" value of the coins, rather than giving it away to private individuals.


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    #27
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Of course it's legal. Why wouldn't it be?
    So, I go to the central bank with bags of 1 cent and two cent coins to exchange for something less bulky, say I have twenty bags of each, thats 60 euro, and the man behind the counter gives me one nice shiny new coin in return. Thats grand, says I. But as soon as he hands it to me, its lost 75% of it's value. I say 'wait a second there, mister. I think I'd rather my own money back, thank you very much' and he says fine, and hands me back fifteen bags of one cent coins...
    All currency is issued for more than it costs to produce. What, you think the Central Bank spends 20 cents minting a 10-cent coin?

    I know in the US, for every cent thats minted, it costs something like 1.2 cent


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    #28
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    pleas advice wrote: »
    So, I go to the central bank with bags of 1 cent and two cent coins to exchange for something less bulky, say I have twenty bags of each, thats 60 euro, and the man behind the counter gives me one nice shiny new coin in return. Thats grand, says I. But as soon as he hands it to me, its lost 75% of it's value. I say 'wait a second there, mister. I think I'd rather my own money back, thank you very much' and he says fine, and hands me back fifteen bags of one cent coins...
    Well, you could avoid the problem just by bringing your small change to your local bank, which is probably going to be more convenient for you anyway.

    But if you bring it to Dame Street, they're not going to offer you a specially-priced commemorative coin issue (and if they do you can reject it; nobody is obliged to buy this coin); they're going to offer you currency already in circulation, at face value.
    pleas advice wrote: »
    I know in the US, for every cent thats minted, it costs something like 1.2 cent
    Yes. And in some eurozone countries, it costs more than a cent to mint a 1-cent coint. This is known as negative seigneurage. In some countries central banks respond by discouraging the use of the coins and encouraging the rounding of cash payments to the nearest 5 cents. In others they bear the cost on the grounds that it makes for a more efficient payment system, and that it is more than covered by the positive seigneurage on other coins and notes.


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    #29
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    It's just a collector's item. I've seen a few nice looking ones issued internationally I've been tempted to get at times, purely just for putting on the mantelpiece.


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    #30
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Oh, it's extremely common. The Australian mint currently has a variety of commemorative $1 coins on sale at prices that vary from $15 to $150, depending on the subject of the commemoration, the metal content of the coin and the number of coins struck. In the UK right now you can by a Peter Rabbit 50p piece for £55, or a £10 coin commemorating the 1918 armistice for £8,565. (It's struck in solid gold, and weights 142 g.) In the US, the World War I commemorative silver dollar is a more modestly-priced $56.95. In France, the monnaie will issue you with a complete set of Simone Weil commemoratives (cumulative face value €3.88) for €43.00. Italy offers better value to the budget-conscious collector, with commemorative sets having a face value of €5.88 on sale for just €24.00. You can choose from a wide range of subjects, including "Artistic Treasures of Amatrice", "Women in Art - Artemisia Gentileschi" and "60th Anniversary of the foundation of the Ministry of Health".


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    #31
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    riffmongous wrote: »
    It's just a collector's item. I've seen a few nice looking ones issued internationally I've been tempted to get at times, purely just for putting on the mantelpiece.

    How is it a collector's item if it has nothing to do with the subject of it? It's not going to the family of Rory Gallagher, it's not going to a good cause, it's going straight to the Central Bank. Can that be really called a collector's item? It seems like if someone started putting Michael Jackson on t-shirts and selling them for a big profit and you started buying it because you said it was a "collector's item". Like... how is it a collector's item when it's a completely unrelated 3rd party that is producing it? A collector's item for stupid people maybe.


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