Survey indicates fire safety/building regulations issues - what to do

cormoleary

Hi all,

We went sale agreed on a house recently and have just received the survey report.

The house in question was built in the mid 1950s and was a two story house with some form of basement/store rooms. The basement area was renovated and a significant extension added around 2006. At the same time an attic conversion was added.

As it turns out the proper planning permission was not obtained for the works although retention was obtained now.

The Survey has thrown up various minor points but a couple of building regulation issues - the enlarged windows in the master bedroom do not comply with section B and K of the regulations, the Attic conversion has velux windows and something about the need for the staircase to be protected.

I’m due to speak with the engineer tomorrow but would welcome input as to what this means. Would retention be granted where these issue exist and what are implications for mortgage etc

Thanks in advance

Gumbo

cormoleary wrote: »

Hi all,

We went sale agreed on a house recently and have just received the survey report.

The house in question was built in the mid 1950s and was a two story house with some form of basement/store rooms. The basement area was renovated and a significant extension added around 2006. At the same time an attic conversion was added.

As it turns out the proper planning permission was not obtained for the works although retention was obtained now.

The Survey has thrown up various minor points but a couple of building regulation issues - the enlarged windows in the master bedroom do not comply with section B and K of the regulations, the Attic conversion has velux windows and something about the need for the staircase to be protected.

I’m due to speak with the engineer tomorrow but would welcome input as to what this means. Would retention be granted where these issue exist and what are implications for mortgage etc

Thanks in advance

Work out cost to remedy and agree with vendor for reduction or walk away.
Or, work out when the works were carried out and see if they complied with the regulations in force at that time, not the current regulations.

dusteeroads

Beware here.

The basement should have its own stairway enclosure.
The stairway up the attic must be enclosed.
Windows must afford means of escape of rescue (Part without risk of falls during everyday use (Part K).

This is not just an academic matter of compliance with regs and gaining finance to buy.
This is about protecting your family.

Don't rely on the internet - however this thread pans out.

Unless such alterations are carried out with expert advice - which they weren't if not even planning permission was sought - then I would fear the worst here.

cormoleary

Thanks for the replies -this is all new to us so just trying to get to grips with the terminology etc.

In terms of fixing the issues, would our surveying engineer be qualified to do that or is it specialist. Would we better off asking the existing owner to do the work or reducing price? Sense is we may need to walk away but will see how it progresses

Gumbo

cormoleary wrote: »

Thanks for the replies -this is all new to us so just trying to get to grips with the terminology etc.

In terms of fixing the issues, would our surveying engineer be qualified to do that or is it specialist. Would we better off asking the existing owner to do the work or reducing price? Sense is we may need to walk away but will see how it progresses

Sit and talk to the person that carried out the Survey. No such thing as a Surveying Engineer, they are either an Engineer or a Surveyor.

They should be able to sit down and tell you roughly what's involved. As for pricing, it may be ballpark until you can open up some works to determine the extent of the works required.

Doop

Just to play devils advocate here a little....

dusteeroads wrote: »

Beware here.

The basement should have its own stairway enclosure.
Fair enough kind of depends if this was an addition or not, OP doesnt say
The stairway up the attic must be enclosed.
If being used as a habitable room
Windows must afford means of escape of rescue (Part without risk of falls during everyday use (Part K). As per current regs, house is from 1950s theres is no obligation to upgrade to current standards.

This is not just an academic matter of compliance with regs and gaining finance to buy.
This is about protecting your family.

I cant see how this would affect the mortgage. Has the bank asked you to submit the survey to them? (this would not be normal). The bank will send a valuer out however he/she will not flag these compliance issues.

Tails142

Don't get too hung up on the regulations, the surveyor is pointing them out to you, you decide yourself whether you think the place is a death trap or just doesnt meet overly fussy building regs that are in place now and only apply for new builds or rented properties. Enclosed stairways to attics and basements may make the extensions unfeasible due to the size and layout required or be a poor use it the space.

For the windows, How many times in your life have you had to climb through a window to be saved from fire? Granted you don't want windows that open wide if you have small kids around, but a bit of common sense please. Lock the windows, or plan on getting them replaced down the line with more energy efficient ones that meet the regs.

Don't walk away from buying a house because it has an open stairs to an attic and because you can or can't climb/fall out a window. Nanny state gone mad.

Poor Uncle Tom

Tails142 wrote: »

Don't get too hung up on the regulations, the surveyor is pointing them out to you,

Shur why get a surveyor at all?

Tails142 wrote: »

you decide yourself whether you think the place is a death trap or just doesn't meet overly fussy building regs

Yeah, it'll be your house so it should be you who decides if it complies or not..:rolleyes:

Tails142 wrote: »

Enclosed stairways to attics and basements may make the extensions unfeasible due to the size and layout required or be a poor use it the space.

So just ignore the safety issues!

Tails142 wrote: »

For the windows, How many times in your life have you had to climb through a window to be saved from fire?

Not being able to do it once is all it takes.

Tails142 wrote: »

... a bit of common sense please. Lock the windows,

Mutually exclusive.

Tails142 wrote: »

Don't walk away from buying a house because it has an open stairs to an attic and because you can or can't climb/fall out a window. Nanny state gone mad.

Conversely, don't just accept and buy a house in any state because that's how it's being sold.

Victor

Doop wrote: »

As per current regs, house is from 1950s theres is no obligation to upgrade to current standards.

House was rebuilt in 2006. 2006 rules apply.

Doop

Victor wrote: »

House was rebuilt in 2006. 2006 rules apply.

'Rebuilt' and 'extension added' are not the same thing, if you build an extension onto a building in 2006 it does not mean you need to upgrade the entire building to comply with 2006 regulations.

Gumbo

Doop wrote: »

'Rebuilt' and 'extension added' are not the same thing, if you build an extension onto a building in 2006 it does not mean you need to upgrade the entire building to comply with 2006 regulations.

+1
The extension would need to comply with the 2006 Regulations, or those in force at the time of Commencement.

Also, worth noting, that the attic conversion in 2006 brings the basement into play and compliance with the requirements of TGD Part B (Fire Safety). So while the whole house may not need to be brought up to current regulations at that time, the works which did effect the whole house would need to be carried out.

Fire spread in a 3 storey house poses significant risks to the occupants, and now this house throws in a basement, so effectively a 4 storey house. It needs to be safe or the OP needs to budget to make it safe.

dusteeroads

Doop wrote: »

I cant see how this would affect the mortgage. Has the bank asked you to submit the survey to them? (this would not be normal). The bank will send a valuer out however he/she will not flag these compliance issues.

Stuff the mortgage - I thought I made it clear there were more important things to consider - the occupants life safety.

Doop

dusteeroads wrote: »

Stuff the mortgage - I thought I made it clear there were more important things to consider - the occupants life safety.

Down off your high horse there mate.. I was answering a question asked by the OP

sydthebeat

Tails142 wrote: »

Don't get too hung up on the regulations, the surveyor is pointing them out to you, you decide yourself whether you think the place is a death trap or just doesnt meet overly fussy building regs that are in place now and only apply for new builds or rented properties. Enclosed stairways to attics and basements may make the extensions unfeasible due to the size and layout required or be a poor use it the space.

For the windows, How many times in your life have you had to climb through a window to be saved from fire? Granted you don't want windows that open wide if you have small kids around, but a bit of common sense please. Lock the windows, or plan on getting them replaced down the line with more energy efficient ones that meet the regs.

Don't walk away from buying a house because it has an open stairs to an attic and because you can or can't climb/fall out a window. Nanny state gone mad.

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Salthillprom

Tails142 wrote: »

Don't get too hung up on the regulations, the surveyor is pointing them out to you, you decide yourself whether you think the place is a death trap or just doesnt meet overly fussy building regs that are in place now and only apply for new builds or rented properties. Enclosed stairways to attics and basements may make the extensions unfeasible due to the size and layout required or be a poor use it the space.

For the windows, How many times in your life have you had to climb through a window to be saved from fire? Granted you don't want windows that open wide if you have small kids around, but a bit of common sense please. Lock the windows, or plan on getting them replaced down the line with more energy efficient ones that meet the regs.

Don't walk away from buying a house because it has an open stairs to an attic and because you can or can't climb/fall out a window. Nanny state gone mad.

Disagree entirely with this poster above.
Building Regs are there for a reason. Part B is there to ensure FIRE SAFETY! Would you honestly purchase a property that doesn’t comply? You’ll likely have bother selling it on in the future too. If a fire occurred in the house and you couldn’t escape, then that wouldn’t bode well.

Re: locking windows if you’ve kids? Madness. Just get window restrictors.