A hypothetical on the point of voting

guylikeme

So lets say that you and your colleague are voting. You carpool up to the centre as one of you has no transport.

If your voting opposite to your colleague, one vote negating the other, is it worth the bother of doing the vote.

We are assuming ye both honestly say what way your voting

dxhound2005

I expect some people will complain about you using Carpool as a verb. But I like it.

Collie D

guylikeme wrote: »

So lets say that you and your colleague are voting. You carpool up to the centre as one of you has no transport.

If your voting opposite to your colleague, one vote negating the other, is it worth the bother of doing the vote.

We are assuming ye both honestly say what way your voting

Excange a car for a double decker bus for your answer

guylikeme

guylikeme wrote: »

So lets say that you and your colleague are voting. You carpool up to the centre as one of you has no transport.

If your voting opposite to your colleague, one vote negating the other, is it worth the bother of doing the vote.

We are assuming ye both honestly say what way your voting

False equivalence.

Foweva Awone

One of ye could totally accidentally and unintentionally spoil your vote, thus making the other's opposite vote count.

Foweva Awone

Also, don't you have to have a minimum turnout for referenda? So those two votes could make a difference in that respect.

kneemos

Do they transfer in presidential elections?

Collie D

kneemos wrote: »

Do they transfer in presidential elections?

Read a poll today suggesting they do as it asked for first and second preferences.

I'm almost 40 (Jesus, that was unnerving to type) and have never voted in a Presidential election. Was away for the last one, McAleese ran unopposed before that and prior to that I was too young.

Before the last election nobody under the age of 32 had voted for a President before. Probably says a lot about the length of term.

salmocab

In theory a candidate not getting enough votes could be eliminated from a second or subsequent counts losing out on transfers so I think the scenario is plausible whilst obviously being very very unlikely to affect the outcome

robman60

Foweva Awone wrote: »

Also, don't you have to have a minimum turnout for referenda? So those two votes could make a difference in that respect.

No, there is no minimum turnout requirement.

If it is a referendum and both people are being honest then they will cancel each other out and I guess it is reasonable for neither party to bother voting.

For presidential, Dáil, or council elections then it is not the same as the vote is transferable and other preferences beyond number 1 matter.

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/11/vote-no-on-womens-suffrage-bizarre-reasons-for-not-letting-women-vote/264639/

kneemos

robman60 wrote: »

No, there is no minimum turnout requirement.

If it is a referendum and both people are being honest then they will cancel each other out and I guess it is reasonable for neither party to bother voting.

For presidential, Dáil, or council elections then it is not the same as the vote is transferable and other preferences beyond number 1 matter.

Even for a referendum you are dependant on the accumulation of
votes,so that one vote Yes or no could make a difference.

robman60

kneemos wrote: »

Even for a referendum you are dependant on the accumulation of
votes,so that one vote Yes or no could make a difference.

Correct, but if one person votes no and the other yes and it is simply a question of which has more votes then there is no difference if both people stay at home. There is no set number that needs to be reached.

One yes cannot make a difference if counteracted by a no and vice versa.

Larbre34

You could say your vote cancels out any opposite vote anywhere in the Country, thats the way it works. But turnout matters, it enforces the mandate of whatever outcome.

Do you think the 8th amendment would be allowed to put to bed by the pro-life side if it had been <40% turnout?

Always get out and vote, even if its a protest that nobody on the ballot offers what you believe in.

kneemos

robman60 wrote: »

Correct, but if one person votes no and the other yes and it is simply a question of which has more votes then there is no difference if both people stay at home. There is no set number that needs to be reached.

One yes cannot make a difference if counteracted by a no and vice versa.

Don't think so. Loads of people will vote Yes and no, it's the total number that counts in the end.

Their vote would only cancel themselves out if the vote was exactly fifty fifty.

robman60

kneemos wrote: »

Don't think so. Loads of people will vote Yes and no, it's the total number that counts in the end.

Their vote would only cancel themselves out if the vote was exactly fifty fifty.

It does cancel out. It makes no difference to the absolute winning margin of either side, though the percentage margin would be slightly different.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Have you read the OP. In an non transferable vote the two would cancel each other

kneemos wrote: »

Don't think so. Loads of people will vote Yes and no, it's the total number that counts in the end.

Their vote would only cancel themselves out if the vote was exactly fifty fifty.

kneemos

robman60 wrote: »

It does cancel out. It makes no difference to the absolute winning margin of either side, though the percentage margin would be slightly different.

If I know my neighbour two doors down will vote the opposite to me does it cancel my vote as well?
It's the total number.

kneemos

Randall Howling Form wrote: »

Have you read the OP. In an non transferable vote the two would cancel each other

Every yes/no vote cancels each other. As I've said it's the total.

dotsman

You always vote. -

• Most of your ancestors had no say in how their country was run and were screwed over as a result
• Most people alive today either don't have the option to vote or can only vote in shame elections and are screwed over as a result.

Regardless of your level of interest/understanding, even if you just want to spoil our vote in protest at the options available to you, you still go out and vote.

As for the theory of canceling each other' votes out, there is a lot more to voting than the black and white result.
Margins are very important. If you have a referendum and the "YES" vote wins, it makes a huge difference if 50.1% voted Yes or 90% voted yes. So, if 1,100,000 would vote yes and 900,000 would vote no, then if those 2 million vote at least everyone recognises that there is a large minority against and the government should approach the implementation delicately etc. On the other hand, if 800,000 for both sides agreed not to vote as they cancel each other out, then the result would be 300K in favour against just 100K against - and people would be mislead into thinking that a huge majority of the country are in favour (as opposed to a narrow majority).

In a general election, a candidate being returned to Dail Eireann, but with far less votes than last time should be getting the message that they need to "up their game". Likewise, a candidate that fails to win a set, but has increased their votes at least recognises that they're on the right track and that the popularity of their ideas/message is growing etc.

This is one of the reasons why it is so important to vote, even if you think it is "a lost cause" or "already in the bag".