Maintenance Cash?

Jasper_

This has probably been done to death but cant see a thread that answers my question.

I am renting in a house share the last year or so. From the get go the land lord has requested that approx one third of the rent is paid by cash every month, the rest electronically to his account. He sends an email to everyone in the house the last week of every month and states the day he will be in to collect (we all leave it in our food presses).

He labels this as "maintenance" money. In my time in the house he has done zero maintenance. The house would literally need to be falling down for him to respond to your email or text.

So my questions are;

1) Am I within my rights to just say "no I will wire you 100% of the rent from now on"?

2) How can I check if he is avoiding tax with this method? he seems dodgy AF.

pinkypinky

What does your lease say about a) payment methods b) maintenance ?

Is the tenancy registered with the RTB?

eoghan104

LOL

He has a neck like a jockeys bollokcs.

There is no reason you can't tell him that you will wire the whole amount but is it that much of big deal to give him some cash?

What is the amount paid in both cash and wire? I would be telling him that for the hassle of taking money out to give him you are paying 50 euro less a month. If he has a problem he can take it to Revenue!

davo10

eoghan104 wrote: »

LOL

He has a neck like a jockeys bollokcs.

There is no reason you can't tell him that you will wire the whole amount but is it that much of big deal to give him some cash?

What is the amount paid in both cash and wire? I would be telling him that for the hassle of taking money out to give him you are paying 50 euro less a month. If he has a problem he can take it to Revenue!

If he has a problem with the op not paying the full rent, he can evict the op for being in arrears. If the total paid by the op is equal to the monthly rent agreed in the lease, then that is the amount the op has to pay, not €50 less. The LL can label that "money for coke" if he wants, as long as the op is being charged what was agreed in the lease.

The tax affairs of the LL are of no concern of the tenant. The service being paid for is being provided.

Amirani

davo10 wrote: »

The tax affairs of the LL are of no concern of the tenant. The service being paid for is being provided.

Not necessarily. People have a civic responsibility to report suspected tax evasion, they don't have an obligation to facilitate it.

Gumbo

OP, adding the total paid, is it below market rate or at market rate?

Jasper_

davo10 wrote: »

The tax affairs of the LL are of no concern of the tenant. The service being paid for is being provided.

Not a concern of mine? I would like to know that the cash I hand over to this man is being declared to the revenue and not straight in to his pocket.

Is there means to find this out or would I straight out have to report him to revenue or something?

TheShow

does he give you a receipt for the cash portion every month?

Jasper_

TheShow wrote: »

does he give you a receipt for the cash portion every month?

No

Gumbo

Jasper_ wrote: »

Not a concern of mine? I would like to know that the cash I hand over to this man is being declared to the revenue and not straight in to his pocket.

Is there means to find this out or would I straight out have to report him to revenue or something?

That's none of your business. How do you confirm that every penny handed over to the local shop, pub, window cleaner is being declared, you don't.

Jasper_

kceire wrote: »

OP, adding the total paid, is it below market rate or at market rate?

Are you talking about am I getting good value compared to similar rooms in the area? Yes, I am.

Stanford

This thread has gone way off line, OP can you answer the original questions posed as follows:

1. What does your lease say about a) payment methods b) maintenance ?

2 .Is the tenancy registered with the RTB?

eoghan104

davo10 wrote: »

If he has a problem with the op not paying the full rent, he can evict the op for being in arrears. If the total paid by the op is equal to the monthly rent agreed in the lease, then that is the amount the op has to pay, not €50 less. The LL can label that "money for coke" if he wants, as long as the op is being charged what was agreed in the lease.

The tax affairs of the LL are of no concern of the tenant. The service being paid for is being provided.

So the LL goes to kick him out because he won't pay the full amount in cash, then the OP says "OK I'll pay the full amount but I am just going to let Revenue know the arrangement."

What do you think would happen then?

If you are getting a good deal relatively to similar places then everyone's a winner, say nothing.

Jasper_

kceire wrote: »

That's none of your business. How do you confirm that every penny handed over to the local shop, pub, window cleaner is being declared, you don't.

Surely its an indication that he is tax dodging and I am within my rights to report it to revenue for investigation.

If he actually used this cash "maintenance" for anything I would not be questioning him.

eoghan104

What are the amounts so we can see the breakdown?

Jasper_

Stanford wrote: »

This thread has gone way off line, OP can you answer the original questions posed as follows:

1. What does your lease say about a) payment methods b) maintenance ?

2 .Is the tenancy registered with the RTB?

1. I'll have to double check when I get home. It does state payment methods, not sure about maintenance.

It does state that there is a dishwasher and dryer in the property (there isn't) so I would hazard a guess he would have to re-read it too.


2. Yes.

Jasper_

eoghan104 wrote: »

What are the amounts so we can see the breakdown?

Amounts i'm paying? 200 cash and 400 wired

daphne

Maybe you should find another room and pay more by electronic transfer only

listermint

davo10 wrote: »

If he has a problem with the op not paying the full rent, he can evict the op for being in arrears. If the total paid by the op is equal to the monthly rent agreed in the lease, then that is the amount the op has to pay, not €50 less. The LL can label that "money for coke" if he wants, as long as the op is being charged what was agreed in the lease.

The tax affairs of the LL are of no concern of the tenant. The service being paid for is being provided.

And you wonder why people are so suspicious about 'small' time landlords going around promoting Air BnB.

Its all a big scam any little bit of scam, be it deposits , actual rent zero maintenance. and you wonder why landlords get a bad rep.

Your out there promoting this nonsense weekly.

i71jskz5xu42pb

kceire wrote: »

That's none of your business. How do you confirm that every penny handed over to the local shop, pub, window cleaner is being declared, you don't.

It's absolutely his business. The LL is almost certainly evading tax on this amount, there's few other credible reasons to take cash in this manner. People like this evading tax means we all pay more than our fair share of tax.

OP- here is the form to report tax evasion to Revenue

kceire wrote: »

How do you confirm that every penny handed over to the local shop, pub, window cleaner is being declared, you don't.

Whataboutery

If or when you go for a mortgage, it's good to show your rent payments.
Yours will only show 400 Euro a month, when in fact you how been going 600.

Jasper_

daphne wrote: »

Maybe you should find another room and pay more by electronic transfer only

Or report this guy on all fronts to get him to cop on maybe?!

eoghan104

Do not report him if you want to stay living there on cheap rent.

He is almost certainly evading tax.

Your original question was is there any reason why he can make you pay 33% in cash, the answer is no.

eoghan104

Jasper_ wrote: »

Or report this guy on all fronts to get him to cop on maybe?!

To what end? Do you dislike him? Dislike living there?

cruizer101

bubblypop wrote: »

If or when you go for a mortgage, it's good to show your rent payments.
Yours will only show 400 Euro a month, when in fact you how been going 600.

This would be main reason I would be against it.
Also I'm not sure how happy I'd be about the LL popping in every month to collect rent left in my cupboard, what happens if it goes missing, whats to stop him saying it wasn't there, a bank transfer has a proper record.
This along with the tax dodging would make me want to pay it all via bank.

daphne

Did you ask him if you could just pay the full amount electronically?

listermint

eoghan104 wrote: »

To what end? Do you dislike him? Dislike living there?

Possibly because he thinks this is acceptable.


- its not.

Jasper_

eoghan104 wrote: »

Do not report him if you want to stay living there on cheap rent.

He is almost certainly evading tax.

Your original question was is there any reason why he can make you pay 33% in cash, the answer is no.

Surely you can do it anonymously? He can only up the rent 4% yearly.

Jasper_

eoghan104 wrote: »

To what end? Do you dislike him? Dislike living there?

I like living there. I do not like how he operates one bit.

Jasper_

daphne wrote: »

Did you ask him if you could just pay the full amount electronically?

He does not engage with tenants unless they are not paying the rent. Emails, texts and phone calls go in to a black hole.

BrokenArrows

1. OP you are within your right to pay only by bank transfer unless your contract states otherwise.
2. The landlord is probably within his right to evict you as you are just renting a room.
3. You are within your right to report him to revenue.

In my opinion just ask for receipts. If the landlord is doing this to avoid tax he wont give you a receipt.

daphne

Jasper_ wrote: »

daphne wrote: »

Did you ask him if you could just pay the full amount electronically?

He does not engage with tenants unless they are not paying the rent. Emails, texts and phone calls go in to a black hole.

Suggest that you email him (so that you have a written record) to tell him that you are going to pay the rent in full electronically from now on for safety reasons and you require a receipt for amount paid. That is entirely reasonable and if he objects then you can be suspicious.

daphne

BrokenArrows wrote: »

1. OP you are within your right to pay only by bank transfer unless your contract states otherwise.
2. The landlord is probably within his right to evict you as you are just renting a room.
3. You are within your right to report him to revenue.

In my opinion just ask for receipts. If the landlord is doing this to avoid tax he wont give you a receipt.

Snap

Wabbit Ears

Considering how high rents are Id say nothing.

Yea, My sense of right and wrong can be bought for a few grand annually in my pocket and noone elses.

And that's what this boils down to: feeding your thirst for justice from someone who is probably playing the system vs OP simply paying thousands more annually.

daphne

Good grief, you want him to pay his taxes, you like living there and happy paying below the odds and I presume he's responsive with getting stuff fixed etc? Can't have everything in this life.  Figure out what your major gripe is - will you need to prove your rent level to a mortgage provider in future - if this is a problem, ask for receipt or do you have a problem leaving cash in a cupboard - then fix that.

AlmightyCushion

daphne wrote: »

Good grief, you want him to pay his taxes, you like living there and happy paying below the odds and I presume he's responsive with getting stuff fixed etc? Can't have everything in this life.  Figure out what your major gripe is - will you need to prove your rent level to a mortgage provider in future - if this is a problem, ask for receipt or do you have a problem leaving cash in a cupboard - then fix that.

Why would you presume the landlord is responsive? The op even says they are not.

He labels this as "maintenance" money. In my time in the house he has done zero maintenance. The house would literally need to be falling down for him to respond to your email or text.

daphne

He says that the house would need to be falling down for him to answer - that suggests that he is responsive in dire circumstances! OP did say he was happy living there. In any case, I think OP should decide what he wants out of situation.

AlmightyCushion

daphne wrote: »

He says that the house would need to be falling down for him to answer - that suggests that he is responsive in dire circumstances! OP did say he was happy living there. In any case, I think OP should decide what he wants out of situation.

Only responding to an email or call when the house is falling down isn't what I or I imagine most others would call responsive. It's landlords like this who give the good ones a bad name.

Wabbit Ears

a landlord that charges less than market for a roof over your head and isnt evicting you is about as fantastic a landlord you can get nowadays.

davo10

listermint wrote: »

Possibly because he thinks this is acceptable.


- its not.

Actually it is. Provided the op is being charged the monthly rent agreed in the lease, there is no legal impediment to rent being paid by electronic transfer and/or cash. If that is what the op agreed to do, then that is the form in which rent is paid. Nothing illegal about that.

You have a hang up about Airbnb as evidenced in another thread, ironically that is one of the benefits of Airbnb, there is no cash payment, everything is electronic through the Airbnb site.

Op, as long as you are being charged what was agreed in your lease, and that is a good rate for that area, quite apart from the tax affairs of the LL being none of your business, you would be a fool to rock the boat. You are receiving the benefit of the service you are paying for, what the LL does with that money is not your concern.

dudara

You can report the landlord of suspicion of tax evasion. However, you have no entitlement to learn if he actually is or not. All you can do is report. Revenue will investigate.

.......

Just so people are aware, much as even the Revenue Commissioners themselves advertise that you report tax dodgers to them - they dont care when you phone them and give details.

I had a situation with a tradesman who offered me a cash price versus a VAT price via email so I actually had proof for the revenue and they didnt want to know.

Bluefoam

davo10 wrote: »

Actually it is. Provided the op is being charged the monthly rent agreed in the lease, there is no legal impediment to rent being paid by electronic transfer and/or cash. If that is what the op agreed to do, then that is the form in which rent is paid. Nothing illegal about that.

You have a hang up about Airbnb as evidenced in another thread, ironically that is one of the benefits of Airbnb, there is no cash payment, everything is electronic through the Airbnb site.

Op, as long as you are being charged what was agreed in your lease, and that is a good rate for that area, quite apart from the tax affairs of the LL being none of your business, you would be a fool to rock the boat. You are receiving the benefit of the service you are paying for, what the LL does with that money is not your concern.

But you could find yourself in a precarious situation in the future if 1. you can't prove your outgoings to a financial institution 2. you want to make a claim against your landlord 3. your landlord accuses you of non payment of the full agreed terms

listermint

davo10 wrote: »

Actually it is. Provided the op is being charged the monthly rent agreed in the lease, there is no legal impediment to rent being paid by electronic transfer and/or cash. If that is what the op agreed to do, then that is the form in which rent is paid. Nothing illegal about that.

You have a hang up about Airbnb as evidenced in another thread, ironically that is one of the benefits of Airbnb, there is no cash payment, everything is electronic through the Airbnb site.

Op, as long as you are being charged what was agreed in your lease, and that is a good rate for that area, quite apart from the tax affairs of the LL being none of your business, you would be a fool to rock the boat. You are receiving the benefit of the service you are paying for, what the LL does with that money is not your concern.

Ah sure youve been making excuses all over the boards for tax evasion of the landlords that pull this fast one.

There is no legitimate landlord in the country that takes bits in cash and bits in electronic transfer.

You know it as well as i do. Lets call it for what it is.

And yes the tenant here can report him and is entitled to report him as he is paying the rent to him. Correctly above he is not entitled to see the outcome but can all means report him.

Ive no sympathy at this stage for your attitude in relation to property. You seem to believe you should be clear to operate in some open free market where regulations shouldnt exist nor government interference in what goes on. When the reality is you operate outside Planning permission, you dont pay business rates. You claim to operating a competing business with hotels and B&Bs who have to operate under all the rules that you dont.


Sounds legit.....


We have a housing problem here, And taking actual properties off the market so small time landlords can short let them is no solution. It has to stop. AND no one is saying its the entire problem its one of the problems in a tangled web of problems that need to be addressed. Its a multi solution that is required.

spaceHopper

Give him a list of things you want fixed and ask him to do them. But for get about reporting him, he's either hiding money from an ex wife or revenue. Either way you've always known this cash was being hidden from somebody. If you report him he will have to go legit and find a way to get the same income so he'll do essential repairs and reten at the market rate or he'll decide being a LL is to much trouble and sell up. Either way you lose out and your house mates do to, please don't drag them down with you.

If he doesn't do the repairs move or open a case with the RTB over the repairs.

davo10

listermint wrote: »

Ah sure youve been making excuses all over the boards for tax evasion of the landlords that pull this fast one.

There is no legitimate landlord in the country that takes bits in cash and bits in electronic transfer.

You know it as well as i do. Lets call it for what it is.

And yes the tenant here can report him and is entitled to report him as he is paying the rent to him. Correctly above he is not entitled to see the outcome but can all means report him.

Ive no sympathy at this stage for your attitude in relation to property. You seem to believe you should be clear to operate in some open free market where regulations shouldnt exist nor government interference in what goes on. When the reality is you operate outside Planning permission, you dont pay business rates. You claim to operating a competing business with hotels and B&Bs who have to operate under all the rules that you dont.


Sounds legit.....


We have a housing problem here, And taking actual properties off the market so small time landlords can short let them is no solution. It has to stop. AND no one is saying its the entire problem its one of the problems in a tangled web of problems that need to be addressed. Its a multi solution that is required.

Ok, your post is all rubbish, but here it goes:

You have no proof it is legitimate nor illegal, why are you making unfounded allegations without any proof whatsoever to back it up? You have suspicions, but that's all you have.

Of course he can report him, but as you said, the tax affairs of the LL are between the LL and Revenue. The op is receiving the service he is paying for irrespective of the method used to pay. The LL can always find a relative who needs the house or do a qualifying refurb and bump the rent, the op will have the moral high ground, and a higher rent somewhere else.

I have never asked for your sympathy, nor do I need it. I'm not sure why you think I do. Yes I believe I should operate in an open and free market that the Government should not interfere in. In fact their interference to date has had the exact opposite effect to what they envisaged, rents have increased, rental property numbers decreased etc. Their interference has made the problem much worse.

I have planning permission for short term lets, I told you this on another thread. And I have no moral issue with competing against hotels, they jack prices up when events are on, they over charge for meals/drinks and occupancy levels in Ireland are so high, more hotel rooms are needed. Why would I not want to compete with them? I'm offering accommodation to the public/tourists at a much more competitive rate.

It is legit.

Rental property owners are not responsible for the shortage of rental accommodation nor for providing rental accommodation to those who need it. This is a business, not philanthropy.

kirving

davo10 wrote: »

quite apart from the tax affairs of the LL being none of your business, you would be a fool to rock the boat. You are receiving the benefit of the service you are paying for, what the LL does with that money is not your concern.

I pay a huge proportion of my income in tax to keep this country running.

The way I see it, it absolutely is a concern of mine if someone else isn't paying what they're legally required to.

davo10 wrote: »

This is a business, not philanthropy..

Then start acting like a business and stop defending the clear issue's with the OP's situation. It should never have even come into question. My landlord wont accept cash to put her situation beyond all doubt.

davo10

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I pay a huge proportion of my income in tax to keep this country running.
.

The rest of us pay it because we have no choice, death and taxes.

Del2005

Jasper_ wrote: »

Or report this guy on all fronts to get him to cop on maybe?!

Well if you report him he'll most likely have to sell up or just stop renting. Either way you will be on the street looking for somewhere to live.