Mad to look at a diesel?

Fabio

Hi all,
Thinking of buying a used Alfa diesel (full service history, decent price, modern jtdm2 engine so meets Euro 6 emission standards).

However, with the budget coming up I'm a bit nervous about the potential purchase. Being an Alfa I know that it'll depreciate quicker than other cars. But...because it's a diesel, though a very modern one, will it basically be worthless in 5 years?

ELM327

The 8 ball says "try again later"/

No one knows the future for diesel or fossil fueled cars in general. Anyone buying a car now on the second hand market is extremely unlikely to be affected by future decisions.

The worst that will happen in the short term IMO is an equalization of diesel tax on fuel with petrol, so about 10c/l increase.

daheff

i think even car manufacturers reckon the diesel game is up. a number of them (toyota for example) are commit to stop manufacturing them. A hybrid petrol should give a reasonably similar fuel efficiency to a diesel (albeit petrol is more expensive to buy, but less servicing cost).

drunkmonkey

What's an alfa diesel worth in 5yrs anyways, the government aren't going to do anything radical any time soon wouldn't worry about it.

Fabio

ELM327 wrote: »

The 8 ball says "try again later"/

No one knows the future for diesel or fossil fueled cars in general. Anyone buying a car now on the second hand market is extremely unlikely to be affected by future decisions.

The worst that will happen in the short term IMO is an equalization of diesel tax on fuel with petrol, so about 10c/l increase.

Thanks for the reply. I know it's close to impossible to really tell what is going to happen. Is there talk of a general car tax increase on diesels? I believe that would be very unfair on people who had been coerced into buying diesel from 08 onwards.

We could absorb the equalisation of diesel prices with petrol because we'd still benefit from the better economy (the alfa diesels are seriously efficient) but a significant tax increase, coupled with worthless depreciation, would be a major kicker.

ELM327

A second hand alfa diesel (say 3 years old?) in 5 years will be 8 years old. In 8 years EV could be the norm, or nothing could have changed at all/
But the one sure thing is that an 8 year old diesel won't be very valuable. Same as now. I see 8 year old diesels on the bangernomics thread (for less than €2k)

Sgt Pepper 64

Fabio wrote: »

Hi all,
Thinking of buying a used Alfa diesel (full service history, decent price, modern jtdm2 engine so meets Euro 6 emission standards).

However, with the budget coming up I'm a bit nervous about the potential purchase. Being an Alfa I know that it'll depreciate quicker than other cars. But...because it's a diesel, though a very modern one, will it basically be worthless in 5 years?

the death of diesel has been greatly exaggerated.
Be a long time before electric cars are affordable and have the same endurance.
At the moment you have to leave it to charge for hours and there arent nearly enough points in ireland. Governments will need to properly invest in the infrastructure for things to change.

Sure they might up the tax a little, bring it in line with petrol, fuel is a great cash cow for them but they arent going to stab dealers in the back who will be left with a lot of stock.

nope, i reckon you are safe, buy it and enjoy it, they will be no great changes and diesel is still king for economy\distance, we only got stuck with this absurd system because the greens were power sharing and had to have their moment in the sun

Shefwedfan

Probably the question which hasn't been asked is do you need a diesel?

What sort of driving are you doing? lots of long distance? or loads of short trips?

I would always say pick your fuel and then look at the car

In terms of the above, yes diesel will still be around for a few years. The government will probably try to bring diesel to same tax level as petrol so add on another 10cent per litre but I would expect that over a few budgets....no idea if they will start it this year but it points towards that with recent press releases. So if you really should not be driving a diesel it might cost more in fuel than a petrol equivalent...

In terms to the quotes about electric having to charge for hours??????? Diesel is not king for economy/distance either, it is if your doing long distance driving, but if you are doing lots of small journeys then petrol or hybrid is best.....

GavMan

It will take decades for the ICE and diesel to die out. There will be a market for a long time. That being said, the market for an Alfa (let alone diesel) is a small one anyway

Shefwedfan

GavMan wrote: »

It will take decades for the ICE and diesel to die out. There will be a market for a long time. That being said, the market for an Alfa (let alone diesel) is a small one anyway

I agree, diesel and petrol will be around a long time but it will save you money if you pick the right one now.....

terrydel

Fabio wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I know it's close to impossible to really tell what is going to happen. Is there talk of a general car tax increase on diesels? I believe that would be very unfair on people who had been coerced into buying diesel from 08 onwards.

We could absorb the equalisation of diesel prices with petrol because we'd still benefit from the better economy (the alfa diesels are seriously efficient) but a significant tax increase, coupled with worthless depreciation, would be a major kicker.

How much are you spending? If its say 6-7k and you plan on keeping it for 5 years, and its worth a grand at the end, it'll have cost you a grand or so a year in depreciation, surely if its reliable thats more than acceptable? All down to how long you plan on keeping it/amount your spending and what itll cost over that time in keeping it going, imho.

BorneTobyWilde

It's bull, world is in such a hurry to progress. Have a little faith in the people of the future, stop calling them dumbasses .
It's 300 years time they'll have clean energy, batteries in EV's will be made of soil and will do 1000 miles to a charge and will charge instantly.
In the mean time we should just burn baby burn

Shefwedfan

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

It's bull, world is in such a hurry to progress. Have a little faith in the people of the future, stop calling them dumbasses .
It's 300 years time they'll have clean energy, batteries in EV's will be made of soil and will do 1000 miles to a charge and will charge instantly.
In the mean time we should just burn baby burn

has anyone suggested on this thread not to buy a petrol/diesel car?

Lantus

drunkmonkey wrote:

What's an alfa diesel worth in 5yrs anyways, the government aren't going to do anything radical any time soon wouldn't worry about it.

It has to last 5 years first......

monkeysnapper

Lantus wrote: »

It has to last 5 years first......

Ha ha you took words out of my mouth

KevinCavan

An alpha will break your heart according to most sources. On Top Gear they used to regularly joke about alphas ending up broken down on the side of the road. They look beautiful but aren’t at all reliable. Would you not go for a safer brand?

Casati

KevinCavan wrote: »

An alpha will break your heart according to most sources. On Top Gear they used to regularly joke about alphas ending up broken down on the side of the road. They look beautiful but aren’t at all reliable. Would you not go for a safer brand?

The modern diesels are very good and apparently newer Alfa’s are no less reliable than most other brand inc Audi. I’m sure buying a three year old Alfa will get you more car upfront too

It’s a great time to have an ev if you don’t drive more than 100km at a go, or like driving at Leaf speed on the motorway as the govt/ state companies have given massive financial support inc vrt rebate, grants, bik elimination, reduced tolls and most important of all free electricity. Secondhand too they generally are cheaper than similar sized diesels - though pricing is getting stronger recently as people cop into their advantages.

The future will see these supports disappear and not only will charging not be free but a carbon tax/ high electricity charging cost or similar, to replace the revenue lost to the coffers from less diesel and petrol purchases, will be added to the overall ev cost to run.

EV owners never will have it as good as they do now so if an Ioniq/ Leaf/ Tesla or i3 or E Golf etc suits you now, then get one now

Diesel is far from dead, having just refueled my Diesel after 1200km on one tank of fast motorway driving, I can see compelling reasons for them, but for city drivers doing tiny miles other better options now exist. If I had a 100km round trip commute and didn’t need to drive 600km+ in a day I’d be driving one right now

_Brian

If your doing sufficient mileage then buy the diesel.
If it suits buy a petrol or hybrid

Second hand Alfa diesel and then add five years mileage and it’s only going to be worth pocket change anyway.

KevinCavan

Do e.v.s plummet in value after say 3 years, after buying new? They are costly to buy new and can’t see them having a great resale value as batteries improve year on year with new models.

bazz26

What's an Alpha?

bertie4evr

The only thing we know for certain is that it'll be everyone that can't afford a brand new car that will be hit by whatever the government decide to do.

Shefwedfan

KevinCavan wrote: »

Do e.v.s plummet in value after say 3 years, after buying new? They are costly to buy new and can’t see them having a great resale value as batteries improve year on year with new models.

That was an issue with the Leaf, mostly because when they released a new model Nissan would sell off the old model for next to nothing.


But with the lack of good quality second hand electric cars the value is actually increasing. So I bought a 2012 Leaf last year for my mother, paid below 7k.



If I put the car on market earlier this year I would have got 9k or more. With the Leaf 2 out and more people trading in the market has settled but I would still sell this year at price I paid last year



You will still see anomalies, eGolf sold for 22k earlier this year(152)....person advertised the same car at 21k and within 2-3 weeks had dropped the price down to 16k, no idea why they dropped so quickly and so much......must have wanted a quick sale


I would also expect 40 or 60kWh battery cars to stay around for the next 5+ years. No real no for longer range.