Cooker and hob wiring

slipdigby

Hello all, wired up job and fan oven. Hob 6mm and oven on 1.5mm.
Is it safe to join the 1.5 and 6mm in a connector.
Also should I have put earth sheeta on the bare earth. Thanks

gets popcorn

punisher5112

Is it not 2.5??

You need a proper junction box with correct connections preferably wall mounted or flush in a back box.

monkeynuz

Is it an Induction hob?

slipdigby

hello, the hob is an induction job.
The oven is a regular fan oven. The flex is 1.5mm on the oven ( probably only requires to be plugged into a socket).
The hob came with no cables, you have to supply them. I have wired a 6mm t&e from the 45am fuse to a 30amp junction box and wired both job and oven into those.

doolox

Speaking as a qualified Electronics Technician and also having level 6 quals in Industrial automation and Information technology, which does not really count, I can say get RECI qualified electrician at the the very least to sign off on whatever you do.

Recent changes in the Law make this an absolute imperative for any Electrical work and also for Gas work.

You have a house. Insurance won't pay out if the house gets burnt in the event of substandard electrical work being done on the house.

You lose.

You need to be at least level 8 ( Honours Degree ) qualified in electrical engineering or Craft trade certified ( 4 yr apprentice ) to be able to sign off on any electrical work.

The days of guessing are over.

These guys now require full indemnity insurance as well as a regular updating requirement as part of their job.

I know this type of work is costly but the risks are not worth it.

monkeynuz

Induction jobs should have a separate cooker switch ie two switches on the wall

slipdigby

Thanks, I've an electrian coming out in Tuesday to check it.
Making it work is one thing, safety is another.
That being said I cut out some plasterboard to gain access to move a socket a couple of centimetres and found that some "qualified " electrician had joined a socket to the ring in two 5 amp connectors , no junction boxy, no insulation, nothing just two unsuitable connectors. House was built in 2006 so I'd expect that level of quality is low.

TheChizler

doolox wrote: »

You need to be at least level 8 ( Honours Degree ) qualified in electrical engineering or Craft trade certified ( 4 yr apprentice ) to be able to sign off on any electrical work.

Interesting, I have one of those, could I sign off on works so? I presume you have to be registered with RECI and insured? I have next to no knowledge of the regs or standards though so don't plan on doing it...

Jimmy.

No obligation what so ever to get an rec to do this job. Any qualified electrician can do this.
Safe electric ad is misleading as it’s from this ad maybe posters have this thought.

goat2

I am changing over from gas to induction hob, have you used that hob yet, I would love to know your opinion on it, I have never used on yet

slipdigby

Il let you know, herself picked it, we had a regular hob before. All I know is all new pots and pans had to be bought for an induction hob😩

brightspark

Jimmy. wrote: »

No obligation what so ever to get an rec to do this job. Any qualified electrician can do this.
Safe electric ad is misleading as it’s from this ad maybe posters have this thought.

ASAI didn't uphold a complaint about it. RECI claimed as the advert referred to a "New hob" it was a complete installation including the cable etc at the dist. board, also the claim the advert shows a "handyman" who is clearly incapable based his lack of control when spinning his wire cutters (I must have been out the day the AnCO instructor demonstrated the correct method of spinning cutters!)


However I do agree this work should not be undertaken by incompetent "handymen"

GreeBo

slipdigby wrote: »

Il let you know, herself picked it, we had a regular hob before. All I know is all new pots and pans had to be bought for an induction hob��

You just need pots made from ferrous material, there are no "special" pots required for induction hobs.
If a magnet sticks to it you are good to go.

slipdigby wrote: »

Hello all, wired up job and fan oven. Hob 6mm and oven on 1.5mm.
Is it safe to join the 1.5 and 6mm in a connector.
Also should I have put earth sheeta on the bare earth. Thanks

I think you just wired yourself up an electric fire tbh.

I ran separate 10mm2 from the board for my oven and induction hob, the draw on having them both on will melt your 1.5mm and possibly your 6mm

Where are you going to join them, what gauge wire will you run from the connector to the board and what amp breaker are you planning on putting in the board?

If you join two different gauge wires then the breaker needs to be matched to the smallest gauge which defeats the point in having the larger gauge and/or will cause constant nuisance tripping.

Cerco

Time to open the popcorn now...�� BrownFinger. Over in the electrical forum as well !

slipdigby

GreeBo wrote: »

You just need pots made from ferrous material, there are no "special" pots required for induction hobs.
If a magnet sticks to it you are good to go.



I think you just wired yourself up an electric fire tbh.

I ran separate 10mm2 from the board for my oven and induction hob, the draw on having them both on will melt your 1.5mm and possibly your 6mm

Where are you going to join them, what gauge wire will you run from the connector to the board and what amp breaker are you planning on putting in the board?

If you join two different gauge wires then the breaker needs to be matched to the smallest gauge which defeats the point in having the larger gauge and/or will cause constant nuisance tripping.

Hello, I have wired it but not turned it on yet, an electrian is coming out on Tuesday.
I assume ( assumption being a danger obviously) that the cable from the fuse box to the switch on the wall is 6mm. I have a 45am fused switch on this, from this I wired 6mm junction box fixed above the oven. I wired a 6mm feed out to the hob and used the 1.5mm flex supplies with the oven.

doolox

Once you have a sign off from a qualified person all is rosy.

ECTI state Level 8 electrical eng or Trade qualified with the 4 year apprenticeship. I do not know what experience requirements exist but I'd imagine similar to nursing registration that if you have not worked at the job for years a requalification process is needed, plus also insurance in place.

I know of a guy who lost his house and was not covered by insurance due to gross electrical bodging being found among the ruins........

I'd imagine such a loss would be crippling nowadays.

slipdigby

I agree 100%. It does seem a bit vague the whole smaller and large capacities of oven and hobs, can't imagine I'm the only person out there with a separate hob and oven possibly wired incorrectly ?

I wonder do manufacturers put in the 1.5 as it is the cheapest. The oven is only approx 11ampsv, and an un clipped 1.5mm can draw 20 amps

2011

doolox wrote: »

Speaking as a qualified Electronics Technician and also having level 6 quals in Industrial automation and Information technology, which does not really count, I can say get RECI qualified electrician at the the very least to sign off on whatever you do.

There is no such thing as a "RECI qualified electrician". RECI do not have the authority to deem an electrician qualified.

Most electrical contracting companies in Ireland are registered with RECI, which is quite a different matter.

Recent changes in the Law make this an absolute imperative for any Electrical work and also for Gas work.

Not quite, from a legal perspective "minor electrical works" such as connecting an appliance can be carried out by a competent person, not necessarily someone with a recognised electrical qualification.
See links:
https://safeelectric.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/REC-Factsheet-April-2016.pdf

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Topics/Electricity/Inspection_and_Testing/Works_Needing_Certification/

Restricted electrical works are a different matter, but that would not apply in this case.

I had an interesting email exchange with CER (commission for Energy Regulation) on this matter. I was very surprised just how much electrical work can be carried out in a domestic installation by an unqualified person, see email correspondence here:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91119951&postcount=290

You have a house. Insurance won't pay out if the house gets burnt in the event of substandard electrical work being done on the house.

In that case it would be impossible to get insurance cover for electrical fires which obviously is not the case.

You need to be at least level 8 ( Honours Degree ) qualified in electrical engineering or Craft trade certified ( 4 yr apprentice ) to be able to sign off on any electrical work.

Incorrect.
The "sign off" for domestic installation work is an completion certificate which can be issued by a suitably qualified Registered Electrical Contractor. Suitably qualified means a qualified electrician that has is also possesses has the City & Guilds 2407 "Electrical Testing and Verification of Electrical Installations" qualification. See link: http://www.electricalskills.ie/course-info/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgK3Jw9yw3QIVx53tCh0oVgj9EAAYASAAEgLIpPD_BwE

Speaking as a qualified electrician with an electrical engineering degree that has worked in the industry for nearly 30 years I can tell you that in many cases there is surprisingly little overlap between the two qualifications. Many electrical engineers are not that familiar with domestic wiring regulations, nor do they need to be.

Jimmy.

Posts with oh I have this and I have that is irrelevant here.

DublinDilbert

If you look up the instruction manual for many ovens they stipulate that they should be protected by a 16/20A MCB, i assume part of this is to protect the 1.5/2.5mm cable supplying the oven. Many ovens fitted would be just supplied off the cooker supply with its 32A MCB and 6mm sq cable.

2011

Back to the OP:


As induction hobs are a large electrical load (for a domestic installation) the cable supply them is generally protected by an MCB rated at 32 or 40 amps. This device can not provide any protection to the oven. Therefore it would be best to connect the oven to an MCB with a smaller rating, typically a 10A B type MCB would be suitable for a 1.5 mm sq. cable. Alternatively it may be possible to supply it from a spur outlet with a 13A fuse.

slipdigby

2011 wrote: »

Back to the OP:


As induction hobs are a large electrical load (for a domestic installation) the cable supply them is generally protected by an MCB rated at 32 or 40 amps. This device can not provide any protection to the oven. Therefore it would be best to connect the oven to an MCB with a smaller rating, typically a 10A B type MCB would be suitable for a 1.5 mm sq. cable. Alternatively it may be possible to supply it from a spur outlet with a 13A fuse.

I got an electrian out to view what I had done. In the end i wired both the hob and oven to in a junction box which was connected to the 45amp fuse. To protect theboven itself I put in a 13 amp fuse switch after the junction box. He said that it was fine.

monkeynuz

slipdigby wrote: »

I got an electrian out to view what I had done. In the end i wired both the hob and oven to in a junction box which was connected to the 45amp fuse. To protect theboven itself I put in a 13 amp fuse switch after the junction box. He said that it was fine.

Good luck, I wouldn’t chance it.

I have an induction job to a fused cooker switch and the oven to a separate one.

2011

slipdigby wrote: »

I got an electrian out to view what I had done. In the end i wired both the hob and oven to in a junction box which was connected to the 45amp fuse. To protect theboven itself I put in a 13 amp fuse switch after the junction box. He said that it was fine.

A fuse rated at 45A is pretty much on the edge for a 6 sq. cable (or perhaps over it). I would not be comfortable with this. Modern installations use MCBs not fuses, is this an old installation?

Also what size cable feeds the spit outlet? I ask because this section of cable is only protected by the upstream 45A fuse.

Induction hobs generally have a high power rating, often >9.5 kW
Therefore you are asking a lot from a single circuit when you consider that it also supplied an oven even when diversity is taken into account.

Any induction hobs I wired required a 10 sq. cable, not just due to the old size but also to ensure that the volt drop was not excessive.

slipdigby

2011 wrote: »

A fuse rated at 45A is pretty much on the edge for a 6 sq. cable (or perhaps over it). I would not be comfortable with this. Modern installations use MCBs not fuses, is this an old installation?

Also what size cable feeds the spit outlet? I ask because this section of cable is only protected by the upstream 45A fuse.

Induction hobs generally have a high power rating, often >9.5 kW
Therefore you are asking a lot from a single circuit when you consider that it also supplied an oven even when diversity is taken into account.

Any induction hobs I wired required a 10 sq. cable, not just due to the old size but also to ensure that the volt drop w.

Hob is 7.4kw
Cable feeding hob is 6mm2
There is a Dedicated line from the switch board/main fuse is on a special line from the mfuse box . This line has the 45 amp coooker switch

GreeBo

slipdigby wrote: »

Hob is 7.4kw
Cable feeding hob is 6mm2
There is a Dedicated line from the switch board/main fuse is on a special line from the mfuse box . This line has the 45 amp coooker switch

but you have shared this 6mm2 with the oven also, right?
What max (top + bottom) rating is the oven?

2011

slipdigby wrote: »

Hob is 7.4kw

This is only one component of the load on this circuit, the oven is the other. What rating (in kW) is the oven??

Cable feeding hob is 6mm2

Yes, I got that. The question I asked is what size cable feeds the spur outlet for the oven?

How long is the cable run?

There is a Dedicated line from the switch board/main fuse is on a special line from the mfuse box .

What size fuse or MCB supplies this circuit??

MThis line has the 45 amp coooker switch

Nothing wrong with that, but you need to understand the cooker switch is not a protective device, a fuse or MCB is.