I'm confused...

Bluefoam

I just read about a development of new houses built in Dun Laoighaire, one of Dublin's exclusive suburbs and desirable place to live. They are all being given away as social housing... But people who have worked hard to earn enough to meet the stringent mortgage criteria and who have saved 10s of thousands of euro are forced to live out in the west of the county in underdeveloped areas that have poor infrastructure and transport... I see the same in inchicore, 500 new social houses, while actual buyers are forced out of the market. It's insane.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/absolutely-rapid-dún-laoghaire-s-fine-new-terrace-of-quick-build-houses-1.3613902?mode=amp

myshirt

Are you for real?

What you insinuating is a requirement for an ethnic cleansing of the poor. Good. God.

Bluefoam

No, just balance.

Fol20

Where did he say he wants to cleanse them. i think its more along the lines that the situation should be reversed where the hard working people who spend 2hours a day or more to get to work should have better features compared to people who dont plan their future and apply for social housing the minute they hit 18years of age.

Its all well and good that they want to be near their family however if your getting something for free, beggars cant be choosers, while the people who are actually saving sometimes up to a decade still live a good hour away from their family and support because "thats life"

bloodless_coup

myshirt wrote: »

Are you for real?

What you insinuating is a requirement for an ethnic cleansing of the poor. Good. God.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

myshirt wrote: »

Are you for real?

What you insinuating is a requirement for an ethnic cleansing of the poor. Good. God.

Absolutely incredible, no insinuating about it. Just move them to Leitrim.

gozunda

Bluefoam wrote: »

I just read about a development of new houses built in Dun Laoighaire, one of Dublin's exclusive suburbs and desirable place to live. They are all being given away as social housing... But people who have worked hard to earn enough to meet the stringent mortgage criteria and who have saved 10s of thousands of euro are forced to live out in the west of the county in underdeveloped areas that have poor infrastructure and transport... I see the same in inchicore, 500 new social houses, while actual buyers are forced out of the market. It's insane.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/absolutely-rapid-dún-laoghaire-s-fine-new-terrace-of-quick-build-houses-1.3613902?mode=amp

Ah come on now - none of that is believable!.

I mean "Dun Laoighaire, one of Dublin's exclusive suburbs and desirable place to live."

Ffs :rolleyes:

Amirani

myshirt wrote: »

Are you for real?

What you insinuating is a requirement for an ethnic cleansing of the poor. Good. God.

I think you may need to revisit your reading comprehension skills.

The poster has simply suggested that developments not be exclusively social housing and to make it easier for working people to buy homes close to where they work.

"Ethnic cleansing" - Jesus Christ.

alias no.9

No problems with providing social housing in DunLaoighre. The way in which social housing is allocated in general however encourages multi generational welfare dependence. The only thing that should give an applicant priority in an area is employment in that area.

Franz Von Peppercorn

gozunda wrote: »

Ah come on now - none of that is believable!.

I mean "Dun Laoighaire, one of Dublin's exclusive suburbs and desirable place to live."

Ffs :rolleyes:

?

Surely it is.

XVII

sarcasm hasn't visited this board yet, I see?

Senature

Currently I live in a suburb of Dublin, in a privately owned, small 2 bed terraced house with a postage stamp garden that is about 100 years old. My partner's children, a preteen boy and a teenage girl, live with us about one third of the time. They share a bedroom. Their schools are 15-25 minutes drive away, there is no public transport to either of them. For both of us, our commute to work is 40-60 minutes each way. His parents live 15 minutes drive away, mine 35 minutes when there's no traffic, 90 when there is. His sister is overseas, mine is a 1 hour away.

If the state has a principle that it is best for people to be housed according to family and social supports, distance from schools, required number of bedrooms for family size/sexual orientation, ber ratings etc, that should apply to all citizens, not just those availing of social housing supports. Mad how people can abhor the suggestion that these things should be made a bit less of a priority in social housing allocation when many throughout the country are already forced to live this way.

begbysback

Amirani wrote: »

I think you may need to revisit your reading comprehension skills.

The poster has simply suggested that developments not be exclusively social housing and to make it easier for working people to buy homes close to where they work.

"Ethnic cleansing" - Jesus Christ.

Jesus taking credit for this quote?

nim1bdeh38l2cw

alias no.9 wrote: »

DunLaoighre

Where's that?

Caranica

All the councils have a quota of social housing to deliver. This is part of DLR County Council building their quota. I really don't see what the issue is. People are complaining not enough social housing is being built and then they complain when it is.

Senature

Caranica wrote: »

All the councils have a quota of social housing to deliver. This is part of DLR County Council building their quota. I really don't see what the issue is. People are complaining not enough social housing is being built and then they complain when it is.

I think most people recognise the need for social housing. Currently in Dun Laoghaire town, there are small, old 2 bed houses for sale for 3-400k, that were previously council houses. That's your only option for living in a house in Dun Laoghaire if you're buying privately at that end of the market. In contrast, if you're on the social housing list, you are allocated a brand new house with all mod cons in the centre of town, up the road from the harbour and Dart station, paying minimal rent.
The problem is the inequality this represents.

rawn

A&P - "There is too much pressure on private landlords, we need more social housing!"

Also A&P - "Why are they building social houses, we need more private housing!"

Pick a lane, people!

Bluefoam

I'm just confused by social housing and the criteria to get a house... I know allot of people who don't own a house, nor have the prospect of owning a house, yet they have no access to social housing... Others seem to have an entitlement to social housing... Yet if you aren't entitled to a house from the state, you have to pay prices that are inflated by the virtue of social housing and this MAP inflated rent allowance.

Just to clarify... I don't believe in social housing in its current format. No one should get a social house without meaningfully contributing to it's financing, upkeep and maintenance.

Baby01032012

rawn wrote: »

A&P - "There is too much pressure on private landlords, we need more social housing!"

Also A&P - "Why are they building social houses, we need more private housing!"

Pick a lane, people!

If you think those are 2 equal but opposite lanes please tell me you don’t have a driving license?!

Twenty Grand

Caranica wrote: »

All the councils have a quota of social housing to deliver. This is part of DLR County Council building their quota. I really don't see what the issue is. People are complaining not enough social housing is being built and then they complain when it is.

They complain WHERE it is. Why are prime housing spots being given to people who can't pay for them, while people who can are pushed further out?

Graces7

Bluefoam wrote: »

I'm just confused by social housing and the criteria to get a house... I know allot of people who don't own a house, nor have the prospect of owning a house, yet they have no access to social housing... Others seem to have an entitlement to social housing... Yet if you aren't entitled to a house from the state, you have to pay prices that are inflated by the virtue of social housing and this MAP inflated rent allowance.

Just to clarify... I don't believe in social housing in its current format. No one should get a social house without meaningfully contributing to it's financing, upkeep and maintenance.

Not sure what you are basing this on? Everyone who qualifies ie income wise and need, has a right to social housing. If they choose and get on to a list. If your income is above that level of qualification, then you rent privately and again may get help from HAP

Council tenants pay rent within their income. If their sole income is social welfare then of course the rent is very low as makes no sense to pay them more welfare because council rents are high.
If you are eg unemployed/disabled/old, how can you contribute as you suggest?

Graces7

Twenty Grand wrote: »

They complain WHERE it is. Why are prime housing spots being given to people who can't pay for them, while people who can are pushed further out?

Again the term ghetto will come into play here. And rightly

Graces7

Senature wrote: »

I think most people recognise the need for social housing. Currently in Dun Laoghaire town, there are small, old 2 bed houses for sale for 3-400k, that were previously council houses. That's your only option for living in a house in Dun Laoghaire if you're buying privately at that end of the market. In contrast, if you're on the social housing list, you are allocated a brand new house with all mod cons in the centre of town, up the road from the harbour and Dart station, paying minimal rent.
The problem is the inequality this represents.

and why not?

riclad

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/more-than-1-000-homes-planned-for-council-site-in-north-dublin-1.3597595

The local authority is also building house,s for people on lower incomes who are working full time.
The economy is booming, there are simply not enough houses being built
to catch up with demand in dublin.
Many builders find it more attractive to build new offices or student accomodation.
Its not right to say the council should not build in certain middle class area,s
It would help if the council allowed apartments to be built above 5 storys
in certain area,s .

If the state can house 100 homeless families outside Dublin for the price of housing 10 homeless families in Dublin, it is beyond irresponsible of the state to take the latter course of action.

The vast majority of Irish people have to leave their home place - be it their native village, town, county or Ireland - to find a job and thus a home. This has been going on since at least An Gorta Mór 1845-51. Both my parents, and seven of my older siblings fled Ireland - the former in the 1950s, the latter in the 1980s. This is a common Irish experience.

Given this reality for people who buy their own homes, it is utterly indefensible to contend that a homeless Dublin person has a special right to a state-financed home in Dublin. There are people on the housing list who are hardballing the system in order to secure a home in Dublin. A fair system would decree that once these people refuse a home outside Dublin, they should be removed from the homeless list. Then, should they persist in keeping their little children in homeless shelters, they should be prosecuted for child neglect for using and exploiting their children like that. Far too much pussyfooting on this issue.

The housing shortage is an absolute shame on this state. But the current refusal to have the balls to stand up to the Margaret Cash types of society is playing into the hands of all the "Let them eat cake" rightwingers.

zell12

Do folk not understand that each Council has a remit on housing. That means DLRC have to house social housing applicants.
Further, if someone is homeless in Dublin and go to Mayo, MayoCoCo will send them back to Dublin. If they are seeking housing, they have to apply to the area where they are from.
It's the way the system is set up. It's not the applicant's fault.

Senature

To reflect reality, I think it would help if the structure of social housing rent was changed in two major ways. One, a rent price is set for a property type, size and location, and that is the price for everyone, regardless of income. Two, the rent is automatically deducted weekly either from your wages via tax credit reduction (similar LPT), or from your social welfare payment.

People would then choose if it is really worth living in the smaller 2 bed in Dun Laoghaire, or if they should move further away from town and have a 3 bed house with garden instead for example. Older people whose children have left home might prefer to move to a smaller place nearer a town or village, freeing up a bigger home for a family etc.

The way it is currently structured favours people who falsify their income declarations, build up large arrears, and just sit on the list until they get their ideal house/location. Not right.

antoinolachtnai

The remit for local authorities isn't (or shouldn't be) just for social housing. It's for housing everybody.

These houses are turning out very expensive to build. The private sector is building three-beds for around the 170k mark (see SCSI calculator - https://www.scsi.ie/research_guidance/house_delivery_cost_calculator) . According to the report, these are costing almost 250k.

It is hard to see how this is an equitable or efficient way to provide housing.

Quandary

The system needs to be changed because it is not fit for purpose.

Caranica

The other thing to take into account is that these are on council land. DLR don't just own land in Ballybrack and Sallynoggin. Should they have sold the land for private development and built elsewhere if the problem people have is where these houses are

Del2005

zell12 wrote: »

Do folk not understand that each Council has a remit on housing. That means DLRC have to house social housing applicants.
Further, if someone is homeless in Dublin and go to Mayo, MayoCoCo will send them back to Dublin. If they are seeking housing, they have to apply to the area where they are from.
It's the way the system is set up. It's not the applicant's fault.

If I want to buy a home in Dublin I have zero chance of buying close to my parents home. So I, and my siblings, have had to move to other parts of Dublin to live in older built properties which we have to modernise. Why do people getting a modern super insulted property get to live in the prime area while paying feck all for it?

Senature

Caranica wrote: »

The other thing to take into account is that these are on council land. DLR don't just own land in Ballybrack and Sallynoggin. Should they have sold the land for private development and built elsewhere if the problem people have is where these houses are

Well, maybe they could or should prioritise people who work in the town for these houses. Also, it's DLR council, any land they have is worth a fortune. For the many working people from this area who don't fit the social housing criteria they have to move further afield e.g. Bray or West Dublin, and could only dream of being able to afford a decent sized house in Sallynoggin.

Twenty Grand

Graces7 wrote: »

Again the term ghetto will come into play here. And rightly

How does 100% social housing in Dun Laoghaire not equal ghetto, but 100% social housing elsewhere does?

I'm all for a mix, but again, no one wants to live beside social housing because of the problems that come with it.

the_syco

myshirt wrote: »

What you insinuating is a requirement for an ethnic cleansing of the poor. Good. God.

Well, now that you mention it; perhaps 3rd generation of people who have not worked get sterilised?

Graces7 wrote: »

Again the term ghetto will come into play here. And rightly

So the people who pay for houses will be in ghettos far away from their jobs, and from facilities, whereas the people getting free* houses get the houses in the best places with the best facilities?

free* = house & income supplied by state for no work done to get said money & house

riclad

Dublin city council own land in dublin, they have a budget,
they can,t just build 100 houses in wexford because land is cheaper in wexford.
Their remit is to provide housing for people on the housing list in dublin.
They build houses to a very high standard ,
i think it costs 150k plus to build one council house, that does not include the cost of the site.
I don,t think theres any cheap sites left in dublin that you could build 100
house,s on.
Council tenants pay rent depending on their income, and who lives there .
So you think a retired person aged 65 should pay the
same rent as a household that has a couple who are both working fulltime.
That makes no sense.
Many people who live in council housing are now working fulltime.
Usually houses are given to people who have 2 or more children
on a low income.

zell12

Del2005 wrote: »

..... Why do people getting a modern super insulted property get to live in the prime area while paying feck all for it?

Because DLRC chose the location for the development.

zell12

Quandary wrote: »

The system needs to be changed because it is not fit for purpose.

I agree. Ban land ownership. State owns the land. Introduce 99 year leases for people to build their own property and they'll have to pay 2% of land market value per annum in rent.
That will rid Ireland of this perpetual boom bust cycle where property value is damaging the economy and destroying lives.
Introducing land rent, Australia's excellent idea for making houses cheaper

Senature

riclad wrote: »

Dublin city council own land in dublin, they have a budget,
they can,t just build 100 houses in wexford because land is cheaper in wexford.

Right, but there's a world of difference between prime city centre sites and several kms outside the city.

LirW

Senature wrote: »

Right, but there's a world of difference between prime city centre sites and several kms outside the city.

Well in Dublin County alone are 4 councils, every single Council has to provide social housing. South Dublin County Council for example can't build in Ballymun because that's another Council's land. Dublin City's council area is pretty small.
Not saying it's great but that's the way it currently is and that's what the councils have to work with.

The_Conductor

riclad wrote: »

Dublin city council own land in dublin, they have a budget,
they can,t just build 100 houses in wexford because land is cheaper in wexford.
Their remit is to provide housing for people on the housing list in dublin.
They build houses to a very high standard ,
i think it costs 150k plus to build one council house, that does not include the cost of the site.
I don,t think theres any cheap sites left in dublin that you could build 100
house,s on.
Council tenants pay rent depending on their income, and who lives there .
So you think a retired person aged 65 should pay the
same rent as a household that has a couple who are both working fulltime.
That makes no sense.
Many people who live in council housing are now working fulltime.
Usually houses are given to people who have 2 or more children
on a low income.

There are state owned sites in Dublin City Council's functional area, capable of supporting apartment developments of up to 800 units (if they were allowed to build them). Its simply not the case that there isn't such land- even in DCC's functional area.

The argument being made in this thread- is (in my opinion) that local authorities should have a similar remit to construct affordable housing, as they do social housing- and that there should be some sort of rules in place for allocating housing in particular areas- on the need of someone to be in a certain area- e.g. it is cruel to make workers drive for 3-4 hours a day- when someone who isn't working is handed a social house right next to where the Garda or the teacher works (just an example).

Yes- we need social housing- but arguably there is an even more critical need for affordable housing- and I'd suggest some sort of a scrappage scheme to get accidental landlords out of the sector (and their properties sold to owner occupiers).

The current piecemeal approaches to dealing with our housing crisis (and there is an entirely separate housing crisis to our 'homeless' crisis)- simply is not being dealt with by anyone- and indeed- a lot of people have a very carpal approach to looking at what is happening in the sector. We need supply- in general- but then we critically need vast quantities of affordable units- alongside a lesser quantity of social units.

Allied to this- we need to make it worth people's while to work- I have the misfortune to know a few people who have made getting a social house their aim- when had they half an inclination they could be productive members of society.........

Our systems- and the manner in which they are setup- are short termism gone wild- with no long term planning- and no cognisance of incentivising lower paid people in society who may be doing critical/crucial jobs...........

The perception is- unless you are out marching for your rights- that you must be rolling in money. Of course this isn't true- but since when has truth sold newspapers?

fussyonion

Yet another thread bashing social housing.
Yawn.

Senature

LirW wrote: »

Senature wrote: »

Right, but there's a world of difference between prime city centre sites and several kms outside the city.

Well in Dublin County alone are 4 councils, every single Council has to provide social housing. South Dublin County Council for example can't build in Ballymun because that's another Council's land. Dublin City's council area is pretty small.
Not saying it's great but that's the way it currently is and that's what the councils have to work with.

I'm aware of that, think you missed my point. In my opinion there is zero need to provide social housing within a 5-10 minute walk of St Stephen's Green, for example. The council could consider selling these prime sites, or consider building housing for workers on them, and purchase other sites for social housing in Finglas, Ballymun or other more outlying areas of the city.

I can never understand why everyone seems to believe none of the residents of the houses will working.

MayBea

mariaalice wrote: »

I can never understand why everyone seems to believe none of the residents of the houses will working.

So as people who subsidise their living, but are forced to live outside of Dublin (and further away from their families, but oh well)

MayBea

MayBea wrote: »

So as people who subsidise their living, but forced to live outside of Dublin (and further away from their families, but oh well)

So its the fact that they have subsidised accommodation you have an issue with? in other words, there should be no social housing?

Twenty Grand

mariaalice wrote: »

So its the fact that they have subsidised accommodation you have an issue with? in other words, there should be no social housing?

The fact that the people who pay for the housing don't receive any benefit from it and are, in fact, worse off than those who pay nothing.

I'm very proud of social housing, but I think those willing to pay should be given priority.

MayBea

mariaalice wrote: »

So its the fact that they have subsidised accommodation you have an issue with?

No, I don't have an issue with subsidised accommodation.

in other words, there should be no social housing?

Where are you getting your assumptions from?
Again no, decent & affordable housing is important for society.
I have an issue with efforts not being recognised and valued.