Luas Ticket Inspectors

SimonTemplar

Everytime I see the ticket inspectors getting on the Luas, I always wonder do they work so a specific schedule and direction, or do they just choose themselves where to do during the day.

Does anyone know.

XPS_Zero

Same with DB, anytime I see them it's getting on at the garage in Donnybrook or one of the others, never see them way out in middle of 75 route say

Victor

In theory, they should be allocated to where their work would make the greatest change in fare evasion.

devnull

But if you make it too predictable, or don't vary the trams, times and places they are seen on, then people will work a way around it and that is what I have seen happen a lot in Dublin.

On the DART, most of the evasion I see is on journeys that do not cross the city center and even when there is RPI presence outside the city centre, it's almost always at a gateline, which means anyone with a non tagged on LEAP card with balance on can just scan it to take the maximum fare and open the barriers, to avoid getting fined.

gabria

devnull wrote: »

But if you make it too predictable, or don't vary the trams, times and places they are seen on, then people will work a way around it and that is what I have seen happen a lot in Dublin.

On the DART, most of the evasion I see is on journeys that do not cross the city center and even when there is RPI presence outside the city centre, it's almost always at a gateline, which means anyone with a non tagged on LEAP card with balance on can just scan it to take the maximum fare and open the barriers, to avoid getting fined.

I find the DART fare inspection outside the city centre quite pathetic tbh. A couple of times I have seen an oversupply of ticket inspectors at the clontarf road station gateline at morning peak hour. Ready to pounce on innocent office workers & likely to find an unfortunate one who may have a genuine reason for not tagging their LEAP card (entry barrier opened inadvertently due to other reason, happened to me while getting on at Raheny). Then no inspectors patrolling the train while its in transit to dodgier stations. I really wish the inspection throughout the DART during the train transit was done like the LUAS is done. LUAS is still not perfect but its better.

SimonTemplar

devnull wrote: »

But if you make it too predictable, or don't vary the trams, times and places they are seen on, then people will work a way around it and that is what I have seen happen a lot in Dublin.

Fare evasion is still fairly easy on the Luas. Only a few days ago, I saw a scumbag telling his 'apprentice' to always sit at the front of the tram so they can see if the inspectors are on the platform of the approaching stop.

I still don't understand why the inspectors need to be so visible and obvious. Would make more sense for them to be in ordinary clothes and for them to have a ID around their next that they can put on as they enter the tram. Makes more sense to me anyway.

Frank Grimes

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I still don't understand why the inspectors need to be so visible and obvious. Would make more sense for them to be in ordinary clothes and for them to have a ID around their next that they can put on as they enter the tram. Makes more sense to me anyway.

They have done this in the past, not sure if they are still doing it though.
Edit: next post confirms they are.

cython

SimonTemplar wrote: »

Fare evasion is still fairly easy on the Luas. Only a few days ago, I saw a scumbag telling his 'apprentice' to always sit at the front of the tram so they can see if the inspectors are on the platform of the approaching stop.

I still don't understand why the inspectors need to be so visible and obvious. Would make more sense for them to be in ordinary clothes and for them to have a ID around their next that they can put on as they enter the tram. Makes more sense to me anyway.

There are plainclothes RPU officers on Luas. Basically they board at a given stop having positioned themselves at different points along the tram, and once the doors close pull the IDs out from inside their collar and they blitz the tram (for want of a better word). Saw it as recently as this week

mfceiling

Frank Grimes wrote: »

They have done this in the past, not sure if they still are doing it though.

They are. Got on at kylemore one morning at about 6.45. Just passing bluebell and 2 lads got up in regular clothes and did a ticket check. You wouldn't have given them a 2nd glance getting on.

vectorvictor

mfceiling wrote: »

They are. Got on at kylemore one morning at about 6.45. Just passing bluebell and 2 lads got up in regular clothes and did a ticket check. You wouldn't have given them a 2nd glance getting on.

Some of them look more likely to be fare dodgers than inspectors - think trackie bottoms/old jeans and well worn trainers. Only viable way of doing it though as hopping off when an orange jacket is spotted is all too easy.

Anyone remember the days when they even used to give you a heads up ? "Luas customer service agents will be boarding this tram at the next stop"

To answer the op I asked one of them this. They do their own thing and know the hot spots well. They don't have a target number of people to catch or financial incentive.

Stephen15

More plain clothes checks is the way forward. Anytime I have seen ticket inspectors on the Luas I have seen people get off as soon as they spot them. If they have to have them in uniform they should at least make their uniforms more discreet than a bright orange hi-vis jacket that can be seen for miles around.

They should also do plain clothes checks mid journey have ticket inspectors play the secret passenger sitting or standing on their phones with earphones in or doing some sort of normal passenger behaviour and then next minute out comes the ID badge and the words "tickets and passes please".

salmocab

On the green line a couple of years ago I was standing right at the front with a mate, when the door opened a guy got on tapped the glass told the driver to wait just asked the 2 of us for tickets then got off. It was early morning on the way to work. He was just dressed normal.

Victor

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I still don't understand why the inspectors need to be so visible and obvious.

Uniformed staff are useful if passengers have a query or wish to report something.

Mixing uniformed and plain clothes inspections is better than one or the other.

Plain clothes inspections only stop fare evasion by those who are caught by them and/or otherwise know of them. Uniformed inspections stop (most) fare evasion by their presence and visibility.

Jamie2k9

They probally have some discretion about what trams to target while on duty but there supervisors will have told them to specifically target a stop or particular service etc.

When in uniform they could improve there approach to checks.

suicide_circus

I got the 757 airlink from the airport on Thursday. Two inspectors watched all the tourist buy their tickets from the guy at the kiosk, then watched them scanning them at the reader as the embarked, even helped them rack some of their suitcases. They then proceeded to go round the full double decker for 10 minutes checking the tickets of all the tourists who they just watched buying and scanning their tickets.

hasdanta

I've been checked twice on the Luas in the past year and its always been done by an inspector in civilian clothing.

Stephen15

The NTA should be setting up their own revenue protection which would operate across all buses (DB + GAI), Luas and DART. Rather than have each operator responsible for their own revenue protection. That would mean it would be balanced across the board. It would also mean ticket inspectors on the Luas could hop off the Luas and hop onto a bus or a DART.

Victor

Stephen15 wrote: »

The NTA should be setting up their own revenue protection which would operate across all buses (DB + GAI), Luas and DART. Rather than have each operator responsible for their own revenue protection. That would mean it would be balanced across the board. It would also mean ticket inspectors on the Luas could hop off the Luas and hop onto a bus or a DART.

This potentially absolves operators of the responsibility of selling tickets.

GM228

The popular use of plain clothes inspectors on the LUAS is dubious considering that they legally must be in uniform which is "provided or authorised" in order to exercise their powers.

This is a specific requirement of the Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act 2001 (as amended) which affords them their powers.

The question raised then is plain clothes considered a "uniform"?

Stephen15

GM228 wrote: »

The popular use of plain clothes inspectors on the LUAS is dubious considering that they legally must be in uniform which is "provided or authorised" in order to exercise their powers.

This is a specific requirement of the Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act 2001 (as amended) which affords them their powers.

The question raised then is plain clothes considered a "uniform"?

Could having an ID badge not count as a uniform?

GM228

Stephen15 wrote: »

Could having an ID badge not count as a uniform?

I'm not sure how any court could interpret "uniform" as being simply an ID badge.

mfceiling

Could you "check" your pockets for your tickets and then just hop off at the next stop?
I presume the inspectors have no powers to restrain you?

GM228

mfceiling wrote: »

Could you "check" your pockets for your tickets and then just hop off at the next stop?
I presume the inspectors have no powers to restrain you?

They can actually arrest you in circumstances where they consider it to be justified!

vectorvictor

GM228 wrote: »

I'm not sure how any court could interpret "uniform" as being simply an ID badge.

Although Luas Revenue protection do go plain clothes it is not overly common.

What is very common is raggy looking students checking tickets with an iPad style device. This is TFI or someone working on their behalf doing surveys. They have no power or interest regarding fare dodgers , they will ask what route you are taking and note no ticket and move on. This is how we get billboards like "Over 95% of Luas passengers pay their fare"

Stephen15

GM228 wrote: »

I'm not sure how any court could interpret "uniform" as being simply an ID badge.

Stranger things have happened

mfceiling

GM228 wrote: »

They can actually arrest you in circumstances where they consider it to be justified!

Wow!! Wasn't aware of that. So can they physically stop you from walking off?

punisher5112

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Same with DB, anytime I see them it's getting on at the garage in Donnybrook or one of the others, never see them way out in middle of 75 route say

You mad they don't do feck all.

There are only 4 and one of the 4 follows in a car.

I would honestly say you are more likely to get shot or aids then be checked on a db