City Councillors embarrassed by tent city.

whisky_galore

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/plans-to-remove-quayside-tents-from-cork-city-centre-are-advanced-866875.html

Fine Gael councillor and former lord mayor, Des Cahill, said the makeshift encampment presents a “poor image of the city”.
He called for the tents to be classed as litter and torn down.
“This isn’t a housing issue and they need to be taken down immediately,” said Mr Cahill at the time.

Dbu

Walked past it last week,
One guy pissing into the river and his buddy abusing passing pedestrians, so yes tear it down

j8wk2feszrnpao

Dbu wrote: »

Walked past it last week,
One guy pissing into the river and his buddy abusing passing pedestrians, so yes tear it down

I hadn't seen it, but got a report from a fiend of a similar incident.

Nerdlingr

Pass by it everyday. Used to be ok with the one guy there in his tent, but once he got the marquee the scumbag element seemed to move in/hang around there. Time for it to go I'm afraid. Actually looks really poor city/tourist-wise as well. Its a real eyesore on the quays now.

Diziet

Have any of you talked to the guys on the quays at all? I have. Some interesting stories there and I would be very slow to use the blanket term 'scumbags'. 
Where exactly does Mr Cahill expect these people to go, and why on earth does he not think this is a housing issue. Living in a tent by the river is not exactly comfortable, there is no need to be hostile to people trying to exist.
It's hard to think of good solutions as it is.

Nerdlingr

Anyone pissing into the river / roaring abuse at passers by is a scumbag in my eyes so yeah, i'll use that terminology for those i think deserve it.

GavRedKing

I seen it the other day and I genuinely had to take a second look to make sure I wasn't seeing things.

They should have been moved on as soon as they started to put up the tents.

Towards the end the Monaghan road, just before where the old showgrounds were, theres a narrow, yet long stretch of grass land thats overgrown and full of rubbish, you can see between the trees there is a few tents where people have setup.

I suspect these are the same group that were down the Marina a few months ago and were moved on.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I hadn't seen it, but got a report from a fiend of a similar incident.

How many fiends do you know?? :pac:

who_me

Right in front of my place. I don't mind the tents being there - the original guy who set up there seems like a real gent actually.

But there are LOTS of fights breaking out there, pretty much daily. I'd say there's a hell of a lot of theft and bullying if you're homeless in the city.

zell12

They've been banned in Galway - even in out of the way places.
Council confiscate them and homeless folk have zero protection from the elements.

who_me

zell12 wrote: »

They've been banned in Galway - even in out of the way places.
Council confiscate them and homeless folk have zero protection from the elements.

Banning the tents isn't the right approach, IMO. And whoever lives there is probably (marginally) safer there than down some dark side-street. At least the Gardaí will be called if there's a serious incident where they are now.

Del2005

Diziet wrote: »

Have any of you talked to the guys on the quays at all? I have. Some interesting stories there and I would be very slow to use the blanket term 'scumbags'. 
Where exactly does Mr Cahill expect these people to go, and why on earth does he not think this is a housing issue. Living in a tent by the river is not exactly comfortable, there is no need to be hostile to people trying to exist.
It's hard to think of good solutions as it is.

There's plenty of empty houses in the country. These people are choosing to live in a tent instead of a house. They may need to leave their comfort zone like the majority of people who have to move miles from their support as its all they can afford, while these live in a tent waiting to move into the city centre for a token rent.

zell12

Del2005 wrote: »

There's plenty of empty houses in the country. These people are choosing to live in a tent instead of a house. They may need to leave their comfort zone like the majority of people who have to move miles from their support as its all they can afford, while these live in a tent waiting to move into the city centre for a token rent.

It's not that simple.
They might be tied to CorkCouncil housing list and another Council would send them back to Cork. Remember the only obligation the State has towards a homeless person is to register them as homeless - no requirement for food, clothing, bedding, roof etc.
They might also have no habitual residence status and be refused homeless services and are stuck.

MrDerp

They were around by me towards the end of the good weather. I heard a lot of rustling in a disused area behind my gaff one night, I looked over the wall and the sound would stop for a few minutes, then start again. Sure enough the next morning I spotted the tent someone had been setting up.

I gave it the benefit of the doubt for a few days, thought "it's just some guy who prefers to stay away from the hassle of living on the streets", but sure enough after a couple of days I awoke around midnight to a drunk woman shouting "Ah come on, let me in, I won't be no hassle". Once she moved in and the weekend hit there was 3-5 people drinking there nightly and the litter started to accumulate. Then there was arguments about which Chinese they were ordering from etc, and random fighting.

By day 6 I was getting mocked and jeered as I was trying to call my cat in at night. Thankfully the heavens opened around day 8 and their stuff got soaked and they got lost. Naturally they left all their rubbish (and the tent and duvets) behind for someone else to clear up.

You see I'm sure it starts off pretty honestly - here's a guy on the streets who's trying to avoid the drinking rougher element. Then the others ask 'where are you set up?' and within a few days they're using a tent in the public realm as a wet hostel. When they sober up or it rains they go into the emergency accommodation, but they're back out again for the fine weather.

Allowing one tent creates a tolerance zone, and they should either create a managed site with 24-hour security or clear out the tents as soon as they go up.

pwurple

Yes I've spoken to a couple of them, because they used to be up in the simon center near me. They fell out with someone / didn't want to follow the rules. 
There's only so much you can do with people who don't want to / can't  engage with society. The rest of us live here too, and don't deserve our streets to be turned into landfill at the whim of these lads.

NSAman

Unfortunately, these tent cities are going to increase in number. If you have ever been to ANY major city in California, albeit LA or San Francisco, you will notice these everywhere. These cities are turning into third world places, in a supposed first world country. Unfortunately, city officials in the main don't care and don't assist at all (despite raising taxes to "help"). The only option is to provide affordable accomodation and in the USA and in Ireland, this is not top priority, profit before people seems to be the mindset.

TheBoyConor

This wouldn't be tolerated in any other modern European city. Can you imagine this going on in the likes of Berlin or Amsterdam city centres?

They'd be hoovered up and told to make themselves scarce.

Dbu

Dbu wrote: »

Walked past it last week,
.................his buddy abusing passing pedestrians, so yes tear it down

I was abused as I walked by weekend before last .......... the fooker shuts up fairly quickly when you give him a bit of abuse back, a spineless maggot.

TheBoyConor

Really? I'll go over there after work and hurl some vitriol at them for the craic as I pass by on my bike.

Del2005

NSAman wrote: »

Unfortunately, these tent cities are going to increase in number. If you have ever been to ANY major city in California, albeit LA or San Francisco, you will notice these everywhere. These cities are turning into third world places, in a supposed first world country. Unfortunately, city officials in the main don't care and don't assist at all (despite raising taxes to "help"). The only option is to provide affordable accomodation and in the USA and in Ireland, this is not top priority, profit before people seems to be the mindset.

Comparing the US to here is not applicable. In the US you loose all nearly social support after a few months out of work. Here people make a good living on the dole and get their rent paid for them in the middle of our biggest cities.

Both the US and Ireland have plenty of vacant homes. People need to be realistic and realise that if you are getting something for next to nothing off the government you won't get to live in next door to Mammy. I've friends who had to move over a 100km from everyone they know as that's all that they could afford, I've relatives who sold their home to move to help their daughter out. Yet people getting a home for a token rent refuse places because they are not where they grew up!

Why can people struggling to pay market rate for accommodation manage without living next door to Mammy yet people paying feck all can't.

Sciprio

While the scum element should be removed i think the FG councillor wants it removed also because it stands out easily and it reminds people of the homeless crisis in this country and if there was an election soon, it mightn't go well for them and cost votes.

MrDerp

Sciprio wrote: »

While the scum element should be removed i think the FG councillor wants it removed also because it stands out easily and it reminds people of the homeless crisis in this country and if there was an election soon, it mightn't go well for them and cost votes.

To be fair, if people really voted based on HSE waiting lists, homelessness, the trolley crisis etc, the government would flip flop dramatically every election as these are mostly constant issues.

All this does visually is make the city look like crap and create an intimidating public space, and I wouldn’t question the motives of any politician that wants them moved on.

People vote with their wallets first and foremost and not on single issues. FG are more popular in the polls right now than they were before, because their voter base primarily pays for their own health insurance, and are not typically even indirectly affected by homelessness.

Those that see homelessness as the primary issue are, in my experience, not the type to have ever voted FG.

the beer revolu

Del2005 wrote: »

Both the US and Ireland have plenty of vacant homes. People need to be realistic and realise that if you are getting something for next to nothing off the government you won't get to live in next door to Mammy. I've friends who had to move over a 100km from everyone they know as that's all that they could afford, I've relatives who sold their home to move to help their daughter out. Yet people getting a home for a token rent refuse places because they are not where they grew up!

Why can people struggling to pay market rate for accommodation manage without living next door to Mammy yet people paying feck all can't.

You seem to think that anyone who asks will be given a council house somewhere.
While people do refuse council houses on the basis of location, I'd imagine most people are on the list for years before ever being offered any accommodation, if ever.
Yes, there are lots of vacant houses around the country but these aren't available to homeless people.

Sciprio

MrDerp wrote: »

To be fair, if people really voted based on HSE waiting lists, homelessness, the trolley crisis etc, the government would flip flop dramatically every election as these are mostly constant issues.

All this does visually is make the city look like crap and create an intimidating public space, and I wouldn’t question the motives of any politician that wants them moved on.

People vote with their wallets first and foremost and not on single issues. FG are more popular in the polls right now than they were before, because their voter base primarily pays for their own health insurance, and are not typically even indirectly affected by homelessness.

Those that see homelessness as the primary issue are, in my experience, not the type to have ever voted FG.

It is in a horrible postion where the tourist buses stop so i can see that point of it as some tourists might get hassled. Yeah, I suspect that most that vote for FG aren't affected by the numerous problems we're having with housing among others.

whisky_galore

Sciprio wrote: »

It is in a horrible postion where the tourist buses stop so i can see that point of it as some tourists might get hassled. Yeah, I suspect that most that vote for FG aren't affected by the numerous problems we're having with housing among others.

Until they are affected...when little Ciara or Fiachra can't get student accom or a place of their own for work.

BeansBeans

TheBoyConor wrote: »

This wouldn't be tolerated in any other modern European city. Can you imagine this going on in the likes of Berlin or Amsterdam city centres?

They'd be hoovered up and told to make themselves scarce.

Visit Lille check out the tent city/shanty town, (seriously its like a town) near the euro lille station / motorway

EdgeCase

BeansBeans wrote: »

Visit Lille check out the tent city/shanty town, (seriously its like a town) near the euro lille station / motorway

There are currently more than 100 "bidonvilles" (shantytowns or tent cities) in Paris.

n!ghtmancometh

Hide the housing problem, that the party full of landlords, is doing nothing to solve. Where our Taoiseach doesn't care about the difference between 9000 and 10000 people homeless, because even if another 1000 people are homeless, he'll never have to deal with them anyway. And most importantly now, sure, we can't have tourists seeing the reality of the country either.

Bloody disgusting attitude people have these days. Depressing, mean spirited and selfish. Wait until it happens to you. Most folks are only a few months away from homelessness these days, if a job is lost or circumstances change unexpectedly.

the_syco

NSAman wrote: »

The only option is to provide affordable accomodation and in the USA and in Ireland, this is not top priority, profit before people seems to be the mindset.

The ones outside are often the ones who can't follow the rules to stay inside.

the beer revolu wrote: »

Yes, there are lots of vacant houses around the country but these aren't available to homeless people.

The homeless charities help the homeless who want to be helped. Help those who abide by the rules.

Why would you give a house to someone who can't not drink so that they'd get a bed in a homeless hostel? The house would be thrashed in a matter of days!

pwurple

The naievity is depressing.

A house doesn't fix the problem if you are homeless. Something else caused you to be that way. Addiction, health issues (mental or otherwise), low ability or intellect, or just simply being an arsehole.

Everyone in Ireland is privileged. This is a first world country. We have education, healthcare, social support available and a culture where family help each other. To piss all of those advantages away takes a serious effort and a large set of problems.

In plenty of cases, they are incapable of independent living. We live in the city. I know our local homeless people by name, they keep getting thrown out of the shelter for being drunk and fighting with others. One enjoys exposing himself to small kids. I wouldn't put them in charge of a cat, let alone a house.


Have you ever been in social housing after a tenant has vacated? I have no appetite for building units to be repeatedly destroyed.

EdgeCase

The problem at the moment isn’t just that. We’ve a massive shortage of housing stock due to a broken economy and dysfunctional market from 2008 onwards.

The boom is back but the supply isn't remotely meeting the demand and prices are way too high relative to income.

A significant % of the population can’t afford basic housing at the moment due to insanely high rents. A lot of people are also living in totally unsuitable housing at present and it is starting to impact the ability to recruit.

I know several cases personally where companies have lost staff who’ve either emigrated or returned to the continent due to high housing costs / poor and unsuitable housing choices here.

Also plenty of social housing is kept extremely well.

You realise that a significant % of housing in Ireland has *always* been socially supported / provided by means other than a mortgage.

If we don't get this housing crisis sorted out it will undermine economic potential here and cause a lot more problems.

We didn't have thousands of homeless people because we used to have functioning housing policy and sane pricing.

pwurple

Builders and tradespeople went bust from not being paid. Developers are vilified. Landlords are the devil himself apparently. They Can't even claim the interest on a loan as a business expense. The only sector in our country singled out for that bizaar penalty.

All are providers of the stock we need to reduce a shortage.

Is it a hangover from colonialism that we haven't gotten over yet? Anyone who provides housing is a scourge, and we actively discourage building or providing units for rent.

Shock, horror and outrage ensues when the housing dries up.

I'd be perfectly happy to provide a small amount of social housing, for the unhousables.... but god almighty, when the cap on income level to qualify is set at 50k... Why would anyone buy their own?

EdgeCase

The biggest issue here is lack of supply.
Government policy should be about managing a sustainable housing sector that can provide affordable homes.

When housing is too expensive you get a fall in disposable income as most of it going on providing a roof over your head and those on low and moderate income end up in unstable accommodation situations and basically housing poverty and homelessness.

Not only that but it's adding risks to the economy by putting households into unsustainable borrowing.

We need a major rethink as what we have at the moment isn't capable of delivering the housing stock we need and the private landlords sector shouldn't be getting used as a way of providing social housing via subsidies. It's extremely has value for money.

The Irish banks are also still dysfunctional and have gone from own extreme to the other. Throwing money at people a few years ago to being very tightfisted now as they try to undo their financial bust of the pre 2008 era.

Ireland's got ebbs and flows of population due to emigration and immigration and seems to have a boom bust economic cycle.

We need to have a steady sustainable level of development and we also need to move to this single European banking system model to remove the risk and strangle hold of the "big 3 or big 4" or is it just the big 2 banks these days.

I don't think the government is really doing enough to resolve this. It's the same with the perpetual crisis that's been in healthcare here, through booms and busts. I don't remember any time, including during our loads of money era, when Irish healthcare wasn't an absolute mess. Housing now looks like it's becoming a similar unsolvable problem.

JupiterKid

Completely agree wjth EdgeCase's points.

Ireland has an utterly dysfunctional housing system where we've moved from an essentially policy driven approach from the 1920s to the 1990s with a robust social housing sector to a laissez faire; free market approach where low income households are shunted into a distorted and dysfunctional private rented sector, proper strategic planning is non existent and there is no political will by Govt to remedy the situation.

Housing and wider economic policies by successive govts over the past 20 years are pro-cyclical in nature and are damaging our economic competitiveness greatly.

Housing is a very complex, nuanced issue. It's depressing the utterly simplistic, mean spirited "I'm all right Jack" attitude spouted online. When your children can't afford to rent anywhere or move out will you still feel the same way?

the beer revolu

the_syco wrote: »

The homeless charities help the homeless who want to be helped. Help those who abide by the rules.

Why would you give a house to someone who can't not drink so that they'd get a bed in a homeless hostel? The house would be thrashed in a matter of days!

You quoted me and then said the above.
My comment was in response to someone who was suggesting that as there are lots of vacant houses in Ireland that the only reason people are homeless is because they have refused accommodation in their location of choice.

I was stating that this is not the case.

Would you care to point out where I said that every homeless person should be given the keys to a vacant house?

EdgeCase

JupiterKid: It's being driven by what has become an Irish dream of paper wealth. There's a cohort of people who bought property during those more sane housing market days, when it was either affordable or when mortgages were being whittled away by enormous levels of inflation.

One half of society seems to be pulling the ladder up on the other half. You've a lot of people who feel quite happy with the notional value of their now seriously expensive homes that were once modestly priced and many of those people are quite ok with the idea of housing being used as a speculative asset class as they're benefiting from it enormously.

The problem is that the policies that inflate the value of an unexciting, normal, utilitarian home in the suburbs to the guts of €1 million, create miserable conditions for younger generations and those who can't ever hope to achieve the living standards that their parents had.

Couple that with poor planning and you've got a whole generation who are being forced into either substandard accommodation or insanely long commutes on clogged motorways and there's no political vision to even put in proper transit networks.

There's a major problem here with failing to see that and I think if they don't resolve it fairly soon, you are looking at political chaos ahead as people start to turn towards different political outlets.

FG and FF need to figure out that the demographic they appeal to is getting older and a younger demographic will end up voting elsewhere if it's not addressed.

Ireland's potentially bottling up a major political problem for a decade or so's time if they don't start resolving these issues. There's a strong argument to show how it's precisely these kinds of policies and lack of concern for the middle class / working class that have destabilised other countries and seen a rise of populism as they lash out against what is perceived as an establishment that's against them.

I'm not saying that they've voted for very sensible or reasonable alternatives in many cases, but if you fail to connect with the voters, that's the kind of thing that can happen and I am very worried that this is where FG/FF or general status quo politics in Ireland is headed.

A housing crisis and a healthcare crisis is already beyond just a crisis. It's now normalised and has become something the political establishment is just treating as something that's acceptable.

If the major parties here don't respond, they will only have themselves to blame when the demographics go against them in a decade or so.

j8wk2feszrnpao

City Council maybe too busy enjoying Sn Francisco to be embarrassed.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-city-councils-50k-san-francisco-trip-bill-867644.html
I understand the twinned concept and the visiting delegation stuff. Taking you partner along on the free trip, subsistence of €133 for each day; just taking the p!ss.

whisky_galore

munstermagic11 wrote: »

City Council maybe too busy enjoying Sn Francisco to be embarrassed.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-city-councils-50k-san-francisco-trip-bill-867644.html
I understand the twinned concept and the visiting delegation stuff. Taking you partner along on the free trip, subsistence of €133 for each day; just taking the p!ss.

Plenty money to pay for junkets for golden circles and pointless bridges. The boom is back baby.

who_me

whisky_galore wrote: »

Plenty money to pay for junkets for golden circles and pointless bridges. The boom is back baby.

Funnily enough, the bridge is right next to the 'tent city'. They'll probably be moved once it opens, to avoid spoiling the photos!

Two of the tent folk in The Examiner on Saturday ......... "I just want a house/flat of my own" very much the gist of the story.

One of them lost their last home/house after going into services for addiction......... bit of a story there I imagine. Her fiance shares the tent with her.

The other is 24, homeless since 17 and just wants a house so his infant child can come and stay with him at the weekends. I imagine an effectively single male at 24 is low enough down the housing list priority wise. There was no mention of a partner but presumably the child is with the mother.

Simon claim the tent folk aren't accepting their assistance, the tent folk deny this and say "there's no beds over there for me/us" .

I suspect a reluctance to accept a Simon bed......... generally when one toes the line in that sort of accommodation there are further options available once you engage with the relevant depts ..........it's no doubt worth a try to jump the queue and plead for a house publicly especially if you reckon it will be challenging to toe the line in the Simon shelter etc due to whatever issues you have and the other folk in there.

the beer revolu

Augeo wrote: »

Simon claim the tent folk aren't accepting their assistance, the tent folk deny this and say "there's no beds over there for me/us" .

I suspect a reluctance to accept a Simon bed......... generally when one toes the line in that sort of accommodation there are further options available once you engage with the relevant depts ..........it's no doubt worth a try to jump the queue and plead for a house publicly especially if you reckon it will be challenging to toe the line in the Simon shelter etc due to whatever issues you have and the other folk in there.

I believe that a lot of homeless people are genuinely afraid of homeless shelters and the carry on that goes on in them and feel safer sleeping on the streets.
I can kind of understand that.

That is of course valid.
However, if you effectively refuse to engage with Simon but you "I just want a house" and you have no cash, job or family support then you are not helping yourself.

Nerdlingr

GavRedKing wrote: »

I seen it the other day and I genuinely had to take a second look to make sure I wasn't seeing things.

They should have been moved on as soon as they started to put up the tents.

Towards the end the Monaghan road, just before where the old showgrounds were, theres a narrow, yet long stretch of grass land thats overgrown and full of rubbish, you can see between the trees there is a few tents where people have setup.

I suspect these are the same group that were down the Marina a few months ago and were moved on.

Pass by this every day too. Seems the tent is gone this morning...but all the sh*t is left behind.

Aglomerado

I drove past here this morning and it looked like someone set their duvets and blankets on fire, the items on the railing were badly scorched.

Bad form to do this to them whatever their circumstances.

who_me

the beer revolu wrote: »

I believe that a lot of homeless people are genuinely afraid of homeless shelters and the carry on that goes on in them and feel safer sleeping on the streets.
I can kind of understand that.

Heard that as well, lots of bullying and assaults.

There's one right across the river from 'Tentsville', and you see ambulances and/or Gardaí pulling up there very often at night.

the beer revolu

Augeo wrote: »

That is of course valid.
However, if you effectively refuse to engage with Simon but you "I just want a house" and you have no cash, job or family support then you are not helping yourself.

I've no argument with that.

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

I seen it the other day and I genuinely had to take a second look to make sure I wasn't seeing things.

They should have been moved on as soon as they started to put up the tents.

Towards the end the Monaghan road, just before where the old showgrounds were, theres a narrow, yet long stretch of grass land thats overgrown and full of rubbish, you can see between the trees there is a few tents where people have setup.

I suspect these are the same group that were down the Marina a few months ago and were moved on.

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Pass by this every day too. Seems the tent is gone this morning...but all the sh*t is left behind.

Gardai were down here at lunch time with the sniffer dog and the council clearing this place up.

No idea why the dog was there, maybe looking for drugs or some such but it seems to be clean now.