Mortgage Protection Insurance Declined - Waiver?

MSVforever

Hi Folks,

We are in the middle of the purchase of a new house which will be ready in January approximately.

Everything went ok so far (contracts signed, deposit paid with help of the htb scheme, etc).
However last week I got bad news as a kidney biopsy showed up that I have low grade kidney cancer (renal cell carcinoma stage 1).
Fortunately it was caught early enough and hasn't spread. I will have kidney removal surgery mid October.

My consultant is confident enough that I will be cured after surgery and therefore won't need any additional treatment.

My wife and myself have a mortgage loan offer with BOI where mortgage protection insurance is one of the conditions.

This is not an issue for my wife as she would be covered under BOI LIFE. However I won't be covered for at least another 2-3 years.
I also called several brokers and was flat told I won't be considered for at least 2 years after surgery. Pulse Insurance might be able to give me cover 1 year post surgery.

Yesterday I asked BOI if I could get a waiver (at least I ve death in service benefit in place) but they won't know until the underwriters have reviewed our case. We both are on a similar salary and have a 6 year old child.

Has anybody any experience with this?

How long does it usually take until the bank makes a decision?

Thanks a lot!

somesoldiers

Death in service cannot be assigned to a mortgage in general.
Have you tried a specialist insurer dealing with existing conditions? Sorry I guess you have if you’ve mentioned Pulse who are a last resort usually.

Waiver is best bet, more hassle for the bank but they do give them in special circumstances. Keep your refusal letters.
i managed to get waived twice over the years with a dodgy ticker, where my partner has full cover.Ebs & ulster though not BOI, best of luck

MSVforever

Thanks.
I tried all the usual insurers and also went through a broker.
My mortgage advisor in BOI said that the death in service benefit insurance could not be assigned to the mortgage per se however it should give the bank some security.
Let's say worst case scenario I would pass away 1 month after drawdown then the dis benefit insurance pay out would cover 2/3rd of the mortgage.

How long were you waiting for the underwriters decision with UB and EBS ?
If we can't get a waiver from BOI then we will re-apply for a mortgage with all the other banks asap.
I won't give up until I have explored every avenue.....)

Cheers.

3DataModem

It really depends on your LTV and whether your wife works. Good luck.

Getting the mortgage elsewhere won’t make a difference, as you’ll still need life cover. The only difference will be that you might find a mortgage provider more willing to give a waiver.

MSVforever

Thanks.

My wife works. We are in the same salary bracket. The LTV is not in our favour as we have used the help-to-buy scheme.

We hope that one of the mortgage provider is more willing to give us a waiver. As soon as the waiting period is over I would re-apply for mortgage protection.

3DataModem

Wife working is in your favour. If you have death in service at work that is also in your favour. Both of these together should give you a very good chance even with high LTV. Best of luck.

somesoldiers

MSVforever wrote: »

Thanks.
I tried all the usual insurers and also went through a broker.
My mortgage advisor in BOI said that the death in service benefit insurance could not be assigned to the mortgage per se however it should give the bank some security.
Let's say worst case scenario I would pass away 1 month after drawdown then the dis benefit insurance pay out would cover 2/3rd of the mortgage.

How long were you waiting for the underwriters decision with UB and EBS ?
If we can't get a waiver from BOI then we will re-apply for a mortgage with all the other banks asap.
I won't give up until I have explored every avenue.....)

Cheers.

I can’t remember it being very long at all, you just have to wait, they seem to reassess everything once there is any change.
Is your deposit refundable if you need to put it off to a future date?
You seem to be doing everything you can so have faith. As the DIS is not assignable to them there is no guarantee that it will be used to pay off the debt also as far as I recall my DIS is at the “discretion” of the pension trustees assuming it is part of your work benefit package, I remember looking into this myself some years back but I never got any further than that as I we got to sign the waiver. Certainly having it in place is better than not having at all.

Ultimately it is more hassle for the bank getting there money back where no LI was in place but it is not uncommon for them to waive for one party where the other has in place.

For now your health is the most important thing, if you have to wait a year or so then so be it. I was point blank refused even 10 years after having stents put in and am healthy but I got there, you will too.

MSVforever

3DataModem wrote: »

Wife working is in your favour. If you have death in service at work that is also in your favour. Both of these together should give you a very good chance even with high LTV. Best of luck.

Thanks! Fingers crossed that everything was out.

MSVforever

somesoldiers wrote: »

MSVforever wrote: »

Thanks.
I tried all the usual insurers and also went through a broker.
My mortgage advisor in BOI said that the death in service benefit insurance could not be assigned to the mortgage per se however it should give the bank some security.
Let's say worst case scenario I would pass away 1 month after drawdown then the dis benefit insurance pay out would cover 2/3rd of the mortgage.

How long were you waiting for the underwriters decision with UB and EBS ?
If we can't get a waiver from BOI then we will re-apply for a mortgage with all the other banks asap.
I won't give up until I have explored every avenue.....)

Cheers.

I can’t remember it being very long at all, you just have to wait, they seem to reassess everything once there is any change.
Is your deposit refundable if you need to put it off to a future date?
You seem to be doing everything you can so have faith. As the DIS is not assignable to them there is no guarantee that it will be used to pay off the debt also as far as I recall my DIS is at the “discretion” of the pension trustees assuming it is part of your work benefit package, I remember looking into this myself some years back but I never got any further than that as I we got to sign the waiver. Certainly having it in place is better than not having at all.

Ultimately it is more hassle for the bank getting there money back where no LI was in place but it is not uncommon for them to waive for one party where the other has in place.

For now your health is the most important thing, if you have to wait a year or so then so be it. I was point blank refused even 10 years after having stents put in and am healthy but I got there, you will too.

Thanks somesoldiers!
Our solicitor insisted that we have a mortgage clause in the contract so we wouldn't loose out on the deposit.

I guess I'm focusing a lot on the house as it takes my mind of the cancer.
In the end of the day the health matters the most.

Thanks again!

I will keep you posted.

hanaimai

Sorry to hear about your health - at the end of the day, that's the most important thing and I wish you a speedy recovery!

I'm having issues with MPI myself and I understand the stress. I haven't been refused yet (still in application process and gathering of medical evidence etc.) but I fear that I will be. So unfortunately I don't have any wise words of wisdom from experience, but I was just wondering did you have MPI in place already when you found out about your health issues, or was it yet to be arranged at that stage?

MSVforever

hanaimai wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your health - at the end of the day, that's the most important thing and I wish you a speedy recovery!

I'm having issues with MPI myself and I understand the stress. I haven't been refused yet (still in application process and gathering of medical evidence etc.) but I fear that I will be. So unfortunately I don't have any wise words of wisdom from experience, but I was just wondering did you have MPI in place already when you found out about your health issues, or was it yet to be arranged at that stage?

Thanks hanaimai!
I'm sorry to hear that you have also issues with MPI. Our mortgage provider advised us to start applying for MPI 4 month before drawdown at the earliest.

If we would have applied earlier then there wouldn't have been these issues I guess (as they found the tumour only in June by accident which I'm grateful for).

Anyway I wish you all the best with your health and your house! Hopefully both of us will be sorted out soon!
Fingers crossed!

hanaimai

MSVforever wrote: »

Thanks hanaimai!
I'm sorry to hear that you have also issues with MPI. Our mortgage provider advised us to start applying for MPI 4 month before drawdown at the earliest.

If we would have applied earlier then there wouldn't have been these issues I guess (as they found the tumour only in June by accident which I'm grateful for).

Anyway I wish you all the best with your health and your house! Hopefully both of us will be sorted out soon!
Fingers crossed!

I understand why MPI is important, but it's a terribly stressful process to go through if you've had any health issues whatsoever. We're buying a new build as well but it's nearly done (got a cancellation) so rushing to try and get everything sorted now.

Life can be terribly unfair with the timing of things sometimes, but I do hope you get sorted!

MSVforever

Thanks hanaimai!
You are right. The whole project is really stressful however we have to keep a positive attitude!

hanaimai

Any luck with the waiver MSVforever?

Not much progress on my side, insurance company still looking for more medical reports, feels like it'll never end.

MSVforever

hanaimai wrote: »

Any luck with the waiver MSVforever?

Not much progress on my side, insurance company still looking for more medical reports, feels like it'll never end.

Unfortunately the underwriters in BOI still haven't made up their minds.
In the meantime I received my first letter of decline for MPI. Once I have the other 2 letters I will be able to apply for a mortgage with the other banks....... Until then it's a waiting game. ....

Sorry to hear about the issue with your MPI! Have you applied to one insurer or through a broker?

spaceHopper

Guy I worked with wasn't diagnosed till stage 4 he didn't make it. You are so luck it's a silent killer.

I'd a minor health scare while doing a top up mortgage and used https://lion.ie/ Nick is very good I reckon though until you've had the surgery and have lab results to show it hasn't spread you will not be able to get insurance. In the mean time document everything, get a letter from the consultant post surgery, and after every check up.

johnny66179

I was in a similar situation about two years ago. I had a liver transplant in 2015 and most insurance companies wont quote you until at least 5 years post transplant. In the end we managed to get a waiver with Ulster Bank, KBC and AIB both declined the waiver. I have very good death in service benefit via work pension which helped and our LTV was low enough too

Grumpypants

No advice on the waiver, unfortunately, but do check to see if your work has a policy in place. Mine does pay out 3.5 years wages so maybe that can be considered?

But mainly I just wanted to offer some support. I was diagnosed with stage 3 RCC last year, (surgery was actually 12 months ago yesterday), chopped that sucker out, kidney/adrenal glad the whole lot, and hopefully that's the last I see of it. 12 month scans show I'm still clear.

If you do have any questions on the op/recovery feel free to PM me. The only difference to the quality of life is I can't take non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (ibuprofen) and maybe the sit-ups aren't as good :pac:

comerla

A colleague in work had this exact same problem; had a kidney removed a couple of years back and was looking to close the purchase of a house. He is the main earner.

They were declined initially, doctors wouldn't certify him either. In the end they kep pushing and policy was approved. He's been in the house since March. He said he thinks the mortgage company made a mistake when something re-issued.

SarahVOW

Try EBS if you haven't already. They got our mortgage through when we got refused last year due to not being eligible mortgage protection.

Wishing you the best with it, I know how stressful it is

MSVforever

spaceHopper wrote: »

Guy I worked with wasn't diagnosed till stage 4 he didn't make it. You are so luck it's a silent killer.

I'd a minor health scare while doing a top up mortgage and used https://lion.ie/ Nick is very good I reckon though until you've had the surgery and have lab results to show it hasn't spread you will not be able to get insurance. In the mean time document everything, get a letter from the consultant post surgery, and after every check up.

Sorry to hear this spacehopper.
I'm extremely lucky that the cancer was caught early (stage 1). According to my consultant I should be cured after surgery as it hasn't spread.

I was in touch with Nick. He reckons that I should get cover in 2 years time after I get the all clear. I also spoke to an life insurance underwriter directly and was told that I will be looking at a heavily loaded premium (approximately €250 per month ) when I can get mpi. This would decrease after 5 years to a noral rate.

MSVforever

johnny66179 wrote: »

I was in a similar situation about two years ago. I had a liver transplant in 2015 and most insurance companies wont quote you until at least 5 years post transplant. In the end we managed to get a waiver with Ulster Bank, KBC and AIB both declined the waiver. I have very good death in service benefit via work pension which helped and our LTV was low enough too

Thanks Johnny.
I hope your health is back to normal!
We have death in service benefit as well which would pay off 2/3rd of the mortgage. Hopefully one of the banks will see this as some kind of security.

MSVforever

Grumpypants wrote: »

No advice on the waiver, unfortunately, but do check to see if your work has a policy in place. Mine does pay out 3.5 years wages so maybe that can be considered?

But mainly I just wanted to offer some support. I was diagnosed with stage 3 RCC last year, (surgery was actually 12 months ago yesterday), chopped that sucker out, kidney/adrenal glad the whole lot, and hopefully that's the last I see of it. 12 month scans show I'm still clear.

If you do have any questions on the op/recovery feel free to PM me. The only difference to the quality of life is I can't take non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (ibuprofen) and maybe the sit-ups aren't as good :pac:

Thanks Grumpypants! I'm sorry to hear about your rcc! Congrats to the all clear. Hopefully this will be the end of this horrible disease for you!

Thanks also for the offer. I might have some questions.

MSVforever

comerla wrote: »

A colleague in work had this exact same problem; had a kidney removed a couple of years back and was looking to close the purchase of a house. He is the main earner.

They were declined initially, doctors wouldn't certify him either. In the end they kep pushing and policy was approved. He's been in the house since March. He said he thinks the mortgage company made a mistake when something re-issued.

Thanks comerla. It sounds to me that they made a mistake as I was told that there is zero chance for cover now or straight after the op.

Waiver is the only way.

MSVforever

SarahVOW wrote: »

Try EBS if you haven't already. They got our mortgage through when we got refused last year due to not being eligible mortgage protection.

Wishing you the best with it, I know how stressful it is

Thanks Sarah. They're on our list. It's very stressful especially when you see your house being built. Fingers crossed.

LillyC

SarahVOW wrote: »

Try EBS if you haven't already. They got our mortgage through when we got refused last year due to not being eligible mortgage protection.

Wishing you the best with it, I know how stressful it is

Hi I've found myself in a similar situation I've been approved mortgage protection but my Husband has been postponed 12 months. Have you any advice regarding applying for a waiver.

somesoldiers

make sure you get a refusal/ deferal letter from whoever it was and present it to morgager

Crunchy Friends

LillyC wrote: »

Hi I've found myself in a similar situation I've been approved mortgage protection but my Husband has been postponed 12 months. Have you any advice regarding applying for a waiver.

We're in a similar boat. I can't get MPI at the moment due to what was an undiagnosed medical condition (it's diagnosed now so i'll be restarting the process of trying to get MPI although I hear it may take a couple of years before I will be successful).

I got 3 refusal letters through Nick in lion.ie and presented them to Ulster Bank along with a letter explaining why I was unable to obtain MPI at the time.

My other half has a higher salary than me and our LTV is 70% - thankfully UB granted me the waiver. We're meant to complete the sale in 2 weeks time so i'm keeping everything crossed that nothing will go astray on this - it's been a huge source of stress over the last few months!

We were advised Ulster Bank were the only bank you could rely on to give a waiver although from this thread and others that doesn't seem to be the case!

I couldn’t get a waiver with bank of Ireland

I worked with lion and two other brokers and it was chill insurance that gave it to me in the end
I was so lucky. It was the worst part of the whole buying process for me and was so stressful

The very best of luck...it always works out in the end

Henry Ford III

MSVforever wrote:

Thanks Johnny. I hope your health is back to normal! We have death in service benefit as well which would pay off 2/3rd of the mortgage. Hopefully one of the banks will see this as some kind of security.

D.I.S. can't be assigned unfortunately.

LillyC

Crunchy Friends wrote: »

We're in a similar boat. I can't get MPI at the moment due to what was an undiagnosed medical condition (it's diagnosed now so i'll be restarting the process of trying to get MPI although I hear it may take a couple of years before I will be successful).

I got 3 refusal letters through Nick in lion.ie and presented them to Ulster Bank along with a letter explaining why I was unable to obtain MPI at the time.

My other half has a higher salary than me and our LTV is 70% - thankfully UB granted me the waiver. We're meant to complete the sale in 2 weeks time so i'm keeping everything crossed that nothing will go astray on this - it's been a huge source of stress over the last few months!

We were advised Ulster Bank were the only bank you could rely on to give a waiver although from this thread and others that doesn't seem to be the case!

I have an application in with ulster bank. They actually approved us mid Feb and said we just needed a letter from our previous landlord with proof of amount of rent paid which I gave them 2 days later however they are still dragging it out looking for more statements so I don't know where we are at with them. I also have approval with AIB and EBS but have to apply for the waiver