heat detection

Looney1

Lads.
looking for advice and opinions.

from next year on I have decided not to keep a bull on the farm mainly from a safety point of view. My kids are getting a little older and like being out and about and the wife is insisting on getting rid. I have to say I agree with her.
Just looking for opinions on heat detection.
Im not on the farm every day so visual detection is not on. something like moocall still involves a bull albeit a young vascetomised one. something like the moomonitor could hardly be affordable to the 30 cow suckler farmer. srychronisation??
Help

Mooooo

I'm afraid without aids etc, and even with them really observation is still key. Could you get out to the farm before work just to have a look if any activity and perhaps the same in the evening?
With regard to aids paint and scratch cards etc on all stock. Synchronizing def an option with heifers, wouldn't be keen on it with cows as expensive and not as successful.
Other than that your looking at moo monitor type things but i don't know the cost of those.

Lady Haywire

It's quite a big change from having a bull to going to AI. If you find it difficult seeing them twice a day, how will you find time to get them in for the AI man? High success rates will correspond to AI timing & it's a pain in the hole getting repeats.
What breed are you running or will you pick & mix? Don't want to bring in a heap of calving issues on yourself if there's not much choice for easy calving.
If you'd be able to get a weanling or young bull, he'd do a lot of the catching for you, without the risk of temper tantrums on his behalf. We generally rely on ourselves here but once the weanlings hit 6 months or so they're like a giant flashing arrow behind the cows coming in heat.

Looney1

thanks for the advice. these points have already crossed my mind. there is no perfect answer. would getting a bull for 10 - 12 weeks and selling him on again be a no no.?? i know it would not make financial sense

Lady Haywire

Looney1 wrote: »

thanks for the advice. these points have already crossed my mind. there is no perfect answer. would getting a bull for 10 - 12 weeks and selling him on again be a no no.?? i know it would not make financial sense

Be cheaper than AI (30X30, not counting repeats) , once the bull kept condition well. Have though thought about doing that myself, get the cows back in line with earlier calvings.
Do you keep cows all in one group or split?

KatyMac

Lady Haywire wrote: »

We generally rely on ourselves here but once the weanlings hit 6 months or so they're like a giant flashing arrow behind the cows coming in heat.

Angus weanling bulls are great in this way, I think they mature very young. I have a lad who is not quite 6 months, but he's mighty for heat detection!
Of course, it's possible for the little begger to be very forward as well - 2 years ago I had a couple of angus calves that had nothing to do with AI. They were good calves so no harm done.

Mac Taylor

I know I am not answering your question, but would you be better off going for drystock?


if still on for the cows, my suggestion would be sync, AI and look for an older bull to catch any repeats.


With luck, you should get ~60% on the sync and should bring them bulling with the bull catching them for the next cycle or two. Use a chin marker.


Scan 5 weeks after taking the bull away (sell on or factory) and cull any cow not in calf.


Should help you also with a compact calving aswell.

148multi

Can you lease a bull for the breeding season.

The man in red and black

Don't want to tell you your business but I notice you say you are not on the farm every day. This might be different for you by the time of calving and if so fair enough and my apologies! If you won't be there every day I would consider dry stock as mentioned above. Hard and all as it is to get them in calf without being there to heat detect, it will be twice as hard manage calving if you are not around.

High bike

148multi wrote: »

Can you lease a bull for the breeding season.

to answer your question yes you can lease a bull for a couple of mts, just make sure u get an easy calving bull if your not going to be around at calving

galwayhillbilly

High bike wrote: »

to answer your question yes you can lease a bull for a couple of mts, just make sure u get an easy calving bull if your not going to be around at calving

I've had a major issue with heat detection, I have resorted to a bought in weanling bull to clean up, but that's tying up a lot of cash for 3 or 4 months and not really in compliance with BGDP, not really feasible with 5 cows to have a 4 or 5 star Bull around fulltime. Leasing would be good.
Can you lease a bull from any farmer? or does it have to be a licenced operator? If I was happy with late calving I'm sure there are plenty of farmers who would be happy to have their bull looked after for 3 or 4 months when they have no work for him. As it stands I'm late calving anyway because of the heat detection issues.

High bike

You can rent from anybody so long as he’s in test,I sent us private message there

Dakota Dan

I’m dairying and thinking of doing the opposite. Ai enough for heifers at the start and then get a bull to clean up. I’ve been using ai the last 5 years and repeats are costly and a pain. Even seeing cows twice a day you’ll miss heats also suckler cows are harder to pick up.

greysides

Rent-a-bull was more common years ago. You need to bear in mind the disease risks.

Dunedin

Looney1 wrote: »

would getting a bull for 10 - 12 weeks and selling him on again be a no no.?? i know it would not make financial sense

Exactly the same boat here albeit 20 cows. AI not an option due to catching heats and the near impossible task of getting cows in.

I get a bull for 8 weeks every year. I let out a few extra heifers so would have 22/23 running with bull and that allows for any empty cows and keeps my numbers up. It also keeps calving compact.

Financially if you buy bull in March/April and sell in June/July, I normally take a hit of circa €400 on bull but that works out €20 per cow and AI would be a lot more. There have been years that I worked with a neighbor who took him after me and kept him for winter and no money changes hand - win win for everyone.

simx

Dunedin wrote: »

Exactly the same boat here albeit 20 cows. AI not an option due to catching heats and the near impossible task of getting cows in.

I get a bull for 8 weeks every year. I let out a few extra heifers so would have 22/23 running with bull and that allows for any empty cows and keeps my numbers up. It also keeps calving compact.

Financially if you buy bull in March/April and sell in June/July, I normally take a hit of circa €400 on bull but that works out €20 per cow and AI would be a lot more. There have been years that I worked with a neighbor who took him after me and kept him for winter and no money changes hand - win win for everyone.

Ai works out 30-36 for first serve Ans usually 10-14 for repeats for dairy straws, with that one bull all the eggs are in the one basket no choice, I know it has labour advantages, I’ve no bull this year bar two teasers, all be it bulls in themselves are a godsend, lad that was with cows is gone to factory 6 weeks at this stage, lad with heifers will be kept for cows next year, I work off farm so not getting to see them so much during the day, use tail paint on cows for 2-3 weeks then teaser lamped in with chinball and teaser with heifers has moocall collar and found that a godsend tbh, it’s the flax ability of choice with ai I love, i used 15 different bulls this year between dairy and beef, also a good few lads with stock bulls would probably let them run on longer and thus lengthing the calving, each to their own but I don’t plan on having a stock bull for the foreseeable

patsy_mccabe

Just out of interest, any suckler farmers tail painting cows?
I got sick of the teaser bull pulling off the chin-ball harness, so I decided to tail paint the cows. It was easier than I thought to put it on. Up the crush and no mad excitement from the cows.
It was a guy working for a dairy farmer that recommended it to me.

50HX

I use the spray instead of the paint, great job

TooOldBoots

You need a right good setup for AI. Most suckler farms are just about setup to be able to round up the cattle 2 or 3 times a year (and its usually an ordeal)
To do AI you need better than average handling facilities. It should be easy to put in the cow because for a 25 cow suckler herd without a bull it could be 40 times in and out of the pen. Its not like dairy cows that are used to going in every day.

ABitofsense

I tail painted this year 18 cows & 3 heifers. Works great for 1st cycle but as the calves get older they start scratching it off & rising the mother getting her up. Also, if one comes a bulling she'll clear nearly them all rising. So back in painting again. Youre painting every few days tbh. In my case now, I've had zero repeats! No paint rubbed or anything. We're concerned but AI man is very good & he said very high inception rate this year.

rushvalley

Started using tail paint here this year too and found it a big help picking up heats especially cows you'd be second guessing. Was able to paint all the cows out in the field late in the evening when they were lying down and just top them up again when being served.

Hard Knocks

Used tail paint but with the weather the paint on some was not lasting 2 weeks

mr.stonewall

Always tail paint the suckler cows. Great job, makes picking heats easier. Often paint 3 weeks before breeding starts as it helps to get a handle on dates. Top it up every 5-6 days. Make sure the cows and calves go to new grass in a different direction to where they were. Always works a treat. Few strip wires works wonders as they get into the habit of moving. Strongly thinking of going all ai with fixed time. Would shorten the breeding season to 6 and a bit weeks.

Hard Knocks

mr.stonewall wrote: »

Always tail paint the suckler cows. Great job, makes picking heats easier. Often paint 3 weeks before breeding starts as it helps to get a handle on dates. Top it up every 5-6 days. Make sure the cows and calves go to new grass in a different direction to where they were. Always works a treat. Few strip wires works wonders as they get into the habit of moving. Strongly thinking of going all ai with fixed time. Would shorten the breeding season to 6 and a bit weeks.

As in CIDR and fixed AI, wonder is the conception any better than 12 hours after standing heat