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UCU rejoins ICU.

  • #1
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭✭✭ Asdee


    I see on the icu Facebook account page a short statement that the UCU has reafiliated with the icu. This truly is good news and can only be good for the game.
    Well done to all.


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  • Asdee wrote: »
    I see on the icu Facebook account page a short statement that the UCU has reafiliated with the icu. This truly is good news and can only be good for the game.
    Well done to all.
    I just hope that it won't result in the Irish Championship ever being moved back to July. It was such a success in August this year that it should be left there.




  • sodacat11 wrote: »
    I just hope that it won't result in the Irish Championship ever being moved back to July. It was such a success in August this year that it should be left there.

    I tend to agree on that, but presumably part of the deal is that Ulster gets to host the championship sometimes, maybe starting in 2020. They may not want it in the marching season (?) but the early August Monday is not a bank holiday up there.




  • I tend to agree on that, but presumably part of the deal is that Ulster gets to host the championship sometimes, maybe starting in 2020. They may not want it in the marching season (?) but the early August Monday is not a bank holiday up there.

    It would be nuts to have it in the North. How many 1900+ players are there up there? I don't see any advantage whatsoever to the ICU in the two organisations merging but perhaps I'm missing something.




  • I'm delighted to see them rejoin the ICU, for all sorts of reasons. It speaks volumes for the current ICU administration. Welcome back lads and lassies!




  • ComDubh wrote: »
    I'm delighted to see them rejoin the ICU, for all sorts of reasons. It speaks volumes for the current ICU administration. Welcome back lads and lassies!
    What sorts of reasons would they be?


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  • This is a curious development, not least because it's the first time in years anyone has claimed to be a UCU Board Member on ulsterchess.org.  Well done Ross.  Maybe the UCU President will soon be able to date and sign his letters.

    The Ulster Chess Union's constitution states that it is the representative body for chess in Northern Ireland (for better or worse, make your own mind up) but given that this has been the constitutional position for more than a decade how did Ross pull this off without an EGM.  There is evidence of an AGM summer past but none of an EGM ( https://www.ulsterchess.org/Members/ucu00450/agm2018/2018-agm-and-league-awards ).

    But anyway what does 're-affiliation' actually mean?  Short letters don't explain much.

    Last month players from Belfast, Omagh and Derry could join the icu.

    This month players from Belfast, Omagh and Derry can join the icu.

    Ditto playing domestic tournaments, the National Championships, getting an ICU rating, playing in ICU run Fide rated events and competing for international selection.

    Last month Ross & John had aligned goals and wished to grow chess (which we will assume means better coaching, participation in domestic & international chess events, organising some norm tourneys and getting a bit of cash into prize funds all over the island).  This month they still have the same aligned goals.

    So what will change?

    Will Ulster Chess players be required to pay ICU fees to play in UCU events?

    What will happen to the UCU's rating system? Few will complain if goes to live on the farm.

    Has John thought through the consequences of organising chess outside of Ireland (the 26 county version, don't mention the war, keep moving on now) in violation of Fide rules.  Doubtless he would do a better job than those in charge of Ulster Chess for the last decade but there is a danger of problems with Fide.

    Time for a longer letter.




  • ...
    Has John thought through the consequences of organising chess outside of Ireland (the 26 county version, don't mention the war, keep moving on now) in violation of Fide rules.  Doubtless he would do a better job than those in charge of Ulster Chess for the last decade but there is a danger of problems with Fide.
    ....


    What violation of FIDE rules? What problems with FIDE?

    Since its formation in the 1920s FIDE has recognised the ICU as the representative body for the whole island of Ireland. So I do not think anything has changed in that respect.




  • ...
    Has John thought through the consequences of organising chess outside of Ireland (the 26 county version, don't mention the war, keep moving on now) in violation of Fide rules.  Doubtless he would do a better job than those in charge of Ulster Chess for the last decade but there is a danger of problems with Fide.
    ....


    What violation of FIDE rules? What problems with FIDE?

    Since its formation in the 1920s FIDE has recognised the ICU as the representative body for the whole island of Ireland. So I do not think anything has changed in that respect.
    Fide Handbook > Chapter 2 - Membership
    "Members of FIDE are national chess federations which have principal authority over chess activities in their own countries ... "
    Your recollection of Fide history is as bad as your recollection of any other history.  A lie agreed upon, perhaps Tim?




  • Fide Handbook > Chapter 2 - Membership
    "Members of FIDE are national chess federations which have principal authority over chess activities in their own countries ... "
    Your recollection of Fide history is as bad as your recollection of any other history.  A lie agreed upon, perhaps Tim?

    As you are personally insulting me, I call on the mods to remove that part of this discussion.
    If you want to discuss this with me identify yourself and communicate with me directly.
    I am not wrong on the history. I gave a paper at the Queens history department many years ago about Irish chess including the formation of ICU. The FIDE Handbook is a recent creation which cannot rewrite what was agreed before.

    Ireland joined FIDE as one country although it was after partition.




  • After the excellent post by Van Morrison I am even more intrigued to hear just why ComDubh thinks that this (re)affiliation is such a great event.


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  • Fide Handbook > Chapter 2 - Membership
    "Members of FIDE are national chess federations which have principal authority over chess activities in their own countries ... "
    Your recollection of Fide history is as bad as your recollection of any other history.  A lie agreed upon, perhaps Tim?

    As you are personally insulting me, I call on the mods to remove that part of this discussion.
    If you want to discuss this with me identify yourself and communicate with me directly.
    I am not wrong on the history. I gave a paper at the Queens history department many years ago about Irish chess including the formation of ICU. The FIDE Handbook is a recent creation which cannot rewrite what was agreed before.

    Ireland joined FIDE as one country although it was after partition.
    There is nothing on the Fide website I can find which states when a rule was introduced or revised but that Fide rule seems to have been around a long time (just my memory and no-one has suggested alzheimer's to me yet, Tim) even if others just noticed it. I've never seen an Irish Olympiad team play alongside anything other than a tricolour, a flag of the Irish Republic since 1922.
    Ireland joined Fide in 1933 so perhaps Tim's earlier statement, "Since its formation in the 1920s FIDE has recognised the ICU as the representative body for the whole island of Ireland" can't be historically or mathematically correct.  Did you get away with one at Queen's?
    You are not being insulted Tim, my name is Van Morrison and you can buy my records in any good gramophone shop.




  • ComDubh has apparently forgotten just what all those good reasons were, perhaps he just imagined them in the first place?




  • I deliberately avoided commenting on this post due to the ease of how easily it could be guided to a place where is does not belong by interested elements through malice or non interested trolling elements in the search for entertainment.
    Firstly Van Morrison should remember that the supreme authority of the Ulster Chess Union lies with the AGM and any motion passed at the AGM does not require an EGM to ratify the commencement of that motion. The UCU board was instructed by the membership to pursue any avenue affiliation or journey that enhanced the affairs of chess in Ulster or for the betterment or development of its members. The current position and course is not a deviation from that motion.
    Secondly Sodacat11 being extremely vocal on all things chess does not transpose one into a custodian of chess on this island. That badge of honour lies with the men and women who give up their own time and energy to provide a safe regulated environment at the most economically affordable cost for the full spectrum of society to participate in. Perhaps rather than insulate oneself against all things under 1900 perceived or imaginary with the blanket of paranoia, a more enlightened and inclusive attitude would be more beneficial to all.
    Regards
    Damien Cunningham




  • "Secondly Sodacat11 being extremely vocal on all things chess does not transpose one into a custodian of chess on this island"
    I have to laugh Damien, was it me or you who set up a whole website to be vocal on all things chess? Pot/kettle prhaps??
    There are few people who play in more tournaments than myself so I think I am entitled to an opinion and very often things improve in Irish Chess because of things that I bring up, the time controls for the Irish Championship and a stricter adherence to rating floors being just two that come to mind.
    If you don't want to read my latest rant then you better avoid what I'm about to say about the City of Dublin tournament.




  • Ah Soda I have no problems with views or comments being aired "Ban nothing challenge everything" has always been my corner stone on views or opinions.
    That said, all of us with an interest in the well being of chess, both in its direction and future should be endeavouring to make it as accessible and enjoyable as possible to its audience while maintaining as high a standard as possible. Trying to amass as many likeminded people under the one umbrella in an attempt to project chess forward in the one direction must be applauded not criticised without basis. Don’t be encouraged or lulled by the lack of enthusiasm from others because they may be constrained by a personal agenda on the matter.
    Many of your views are reasonable and pragmatic and thus their articulation is of benefit to all, just because agreement is not forthcoming on one topic does not automatically assume disagreement on all.




  • I simply asked how the amalgamation of the two unions benefits the ICU because, to be honest, I don't see any advantage except perhaps in some idealistic way. If the new situation meant that we would see Northern players coming down here for the irish Championship, over 50s etc then I would be all for it. I do admit, however, that I would not want to play in Belfast and more than I want to play in Dublin city centre.


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