Nephew's Gorgeous new girlfriend.

Hector Bellend

My nephew is almost 16 and started going out with a girl a couple of months ago.

Things are going well and he brought her home to his parents last night (his mother is my sister).

We got a call from her this morning to tell us how things went. She told us that things went well. However, she has a slight concern. Nothing serious, just a practical issue.

My sister also let us know that she is a particularly good looking girl. Nothing wrong with this, Quite the opposite in fact

My sister called us to ask advise about to broach the inevitable practical issue that arises with the mother of every teenage boy that has ever lived. SEX.

She says that she feels the need for "the talk" but looked for advice on how to go about it. Do they just come straight out with it?

We were all teenagers once and we all know what goes on. It's not a matter of if but when they start. (if they havent already)

Personally, I think it's a no brainer that they get it out in the open and take as many practical, reasonable and safe precautions as possible, but we havent figured out a way to avoid unnecessary embarrassment.

Hitman3000

Hector Bellend wrote:

Personally, I think it's a no brainer that they get it out in the open and take as many practical, reasonable and safe precautions as possible, but we havent figured out a way to avoid unnecessary embarrassment.

Give him a box of condoms, ask him does he know what they are for. If he says yes, no need for the talk other than to tell him to play safe and use them when the time comes. If he is clueless just treat him like an adult and explain things practically with out silly analogies.

Dial Hard

Presuming the girlfriend is under 17 she needs to have a very frank and honest conversation with him about the possible repercussions for him if they have sex.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to fool themselves that it will make any difference if they decide they want to have sex but it would be remiss of her not to.

After that, she needs to arm him with all the information he needs to make safe decisions.

I'm not sure what her looks have to do with any of this, though???

AndrewJRenko

If he is 16 and she's never discussed sex, consent, abuse before - she honestly needs a bit of a kick up the arse.

There is no 'one off' talk - it is an ongoing process. She urgently needs to start now.

ted1

What have her looks got to do with it? Ugly people have sex too!!!

Bootlegger

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If he is 16 and she's never discussed sex, consent, abuse before - she honestly needs a bit of a kick up the arse.

There is no 'one off' talk - it is an ongoing process. She urgently needs to start now.

Not really. I never got the talk and would have died of embarrassment if I did. Got some sex ed in school and figured the rest out.

Big Bag of Chips

I would advise your sister if she doesn't want to be a granny in the next few years then she needs to get over any potential embarrassment and talk to him. He is 15. I'm assuming the "gorgeous new girlfriend" is roughly the same age. If she gets pregnant, the health professionals will be bound by mandatory reporting to report statutory rape. The families will most likely be advised to not pursue it, as it will have been consensual between a couple, but they will still be put through the "embarrassment" of being questioned and interviewed about it.

All depends on which embarrassment she's be less embarrassed about.

AndrewJRenko

Bootlegger wrote: »

Not really. I never got the talk and would have died of embarrassment if I did. Got some sex ed in school and figured the rest out.

You'd have 'died of embarrassment' if it was something that was never talked about until the day for the dreaded talk.


If sex, relationships, consent, respect were normal topics of conversation from the age of nine or ten onwards, you'd have had no embarrassment.

Where did you get information about contraception? STDs? Homosexuality and bisexuality? Masturbation? How to best enjoy sex?

nikkibikki

Bootlegger wrote:

Not really. I never got the talk and would have died of embarrassment if I did. Got some sex ed in school and figured the rest out.

It's a totally different world to even 5 or 10 years ago. Internet porn at the click of a button on their phone. Consent is a huge issue. It's not up to schools to teach this, it's up to parents to parent their children.

PressRun

What does her being "Gorgeous" have to do with any of this?

GingerLily

PressRun wrote: »

What does her being "Gorgeous" have to do with any of this?

Its a bit creepy

Triangle

I have a 16 year old who's very open to these conversations. But I've been having these chats for years with him. Usually when we're going somewhere in the car, just the Two of us.
He always seemed more comfortable talking in the car for some reason. Maybe because I wasn't interrupting him when he was doing something else.
Best of luck with it, maybe light touches in an adult to adult way. Talking about personal stuff first before diving into his personal life.

harr

Not much advice but definitely an odd thread title

Big Bag of Chips

All posters are reminded to stick to offering mature advice, please.

Chocolate fiend

Surely he knows what's what with regard to sex and consent etc? If he doesn't it has been a long few years where she missed opportunities. The fact that the girl is beautiful isn't relevant, if his girlfriend was "ugly" the potential for sex is still there.

leggo

I recently had to do this with a close family member after they got into a long-term relationship and, in chatting with one of their parents, was left in no uncertain terms that they were being naive about what that entailed at their age and it was doing them no favours having their support structures let them walk in potentially blind to a situation, since you don't know what they're learning at school or how effectively it's being taught.

It happened more in stages because stuff came up as naturally as it could while I was very sure of what I wanted to get across. First off, there was the discussion of how having a child young can potentially affect your quality of life, aiming it squarely at what a teenager cares about: spending time with their friends and what people think of them. I went in hard and exaggerated for effect, no doubt, using my own experiences dating a single mother (who they'd have met) as a guide. Short-term I indirectly amplified how, if they had a child as a teenager, they'd probably never get to have something as simple as a holiday with their mates, how they'll have to sit in and watch as all of their friends make college friends and enjoy probably the best years of their lives with constant nights out. Then I also went into stuff like how people I know had people they thought were loving partners run a mile once a child came into play, the devastating psychological affect having to get an abortion of an unplanned pregnancy can have and so on. Again, I went into this indirectly and didn't relate it directly to them as that'll just get a defensive reply, with the goal being planting the message "an unplanned pregnancy this young could affect everything and has real consequences". I think the hint landed.

The fact that I was being open and honest about experiences from my own life and that of those around me led them to respond as such and it left the subject on the table to be discussed in the future. Later they told me that they were having sleepovers with their partner, so now the scenario was real. I asked, without actually wanting to know too many details myself, if they were using contraception. They were using condoms but the family member told me their parents didn't believe in 'giving them permission' by getting the pill or any other form of contraception. This enraged me because they were clearly blind to the situation and allowing their own ignorance to potentially put their child at risk, but I bit my tongue not wanting to mismanage the situation.

From there, I got advice from a couple of people in my life who'd be more knowledgable about these issues than me, did my own research and basically sent one long text with an info dump of stuff. I told the family member that it is their body and not their parents and that they can make a responsible decision for themselves regardless, then gave them all the information they needed to have to do so. I said we can talk about it or not talk about it if they like at any stage and that, if they needed money, advice or any support at all, they could reach out to me at any stage and I'd give them whatever they needed. They sent me back a text thanking me sincerely and we'd avoided an awkward face-to-face conversation but the message was received and they could refer back to it in writing anytime they needed. A while later, I checked in with them and asked if everything was okay after that text and if they were okay and happy with everything. They told me they were and thanked me so much for the support. And that's where we are. I feel a lot better knowing they've got the info they needed and now it's their body and their life to put that to use, which I trust that they will. Plus they know they've got someone older there who'll offer whatever support is needed if they need anything else in future.

What I think worked here:
- Not being naive about the situation.
- Treating them like an adult capable of making responsible decisions, because they see themselves that way anyway so will respond better to it.
- Giving them real world, practical, indirect advice that connects with what they're immediately concerned about (but not lecturing them).
- Giving them info and support but trusting them to make their own mind up, because they will anyway.
- Then letting them live their life freely and not trying to control, guide or judge them.

shesty

She needs to just talk to him.It's not rocket science.

This annoys the crap out of me.I'm a woman.I did engineering, lots of men in my life.(not in relationships, mainly friends).The actual cluelessness of lads when it came to sex, periods, babies, was jaw-dropping.Meanwhile I spent six years in secondary school (all girls) losing track of the number of sex-ed talks/classes/chats we had.Why do the mothers (of Ireland?)seem to think they don't need to discuss sex with their sons?I mean, it takes two to make a baby.

And I am saying this as a mother of girls and boys - I will make sure every one of my kids is aware of the mechanics of sex, and the responsibilities that come with it (yes, even at 16) once they enter their teens-I don't care how embarassing they find it.

Tell her to talk to him.It's his responsibility to practice safe sex as much as it is any girls.

TheBoyConor

Its not the sex talk he needs to have. He needs to be taught about consent and statutory rape and the potential consequences for him if they have sex and she at some future stages decides she has a problem with it.

These days this is a minefield and as I say "sure it's all grand until something isn't grand and there's a problem". Lets say they decide to have sex and all is fine for a while. Next thing they have a fight or break up or any of the other pieces of teenage drama that can occur, lets say they break up, he gets and new gf and ex-gfgets jealous. All it takes is for her to think to herself that she wants payback and decide - "hey, you know what? I was statutorily raped! I'm telling my parents and the Gardai. That'll teach him!"

The poor chap could end up with a rape conviction and be on the sex offenders register and possibly also in the red for many many thousands of euros in damages.

Besides, it would actually be illegal for them to have sex. As is the policy on the rest of boards whereby discussing or encouraging illegal activities is against the charter and effectively banned, I wonder should we even be discussing this here.....

GingerLily

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Besides, it would actually be illegal for them to have sex. As is the policy on the rest of boards whereby discussing or encouraging illegal activities is against the charter and effectively banned, I wonder should we even be discussing this here.....

Educating teenagers on safe sex is not illegal. It's taught in school also, maybe you weren't aware of that.

Another area they should discuss is sexting and distribution of child pornography, because that's a crime too and both the sender and recipient can get in trouble for it (including her son sending personal photos). I am not saying I agree with the laws, or the DPP would prosecute, but it's definitely something young people need to know more about.

TheBoyConor

100%. I never thought about the distributing child pornography angle, which they absolutely would be doing if they are s*xting or exchanging lewd pictures on snapchat. All that can be recovered by gardai during an investigation.

Imagine even if the girl's parents discovered that her phone contained these images and that they were exchanged with the OPs male relative. All hell could break loose.

blairbear

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Its not the sex talk he needs to have. He needs to be taught about consent and statutory rape and the potential consequences for him if they have sex and she at some future stages decides she has a problem with it.

These days this is a minefield and as I say "sure it's all grand until something isn't grand and there's a problem". Lets say they decide to have sex and all is fine for a while. Next thing they have a fight or break up or any of the other pieces of teenage drama that can occur, lets say they break up, he gets and new gf and ex-gfgets jealous. All it takes is for her to think to herself that she wants payback and decide - "hey, you know what? I was statutorily raped! I'm telling my parents and the Gardai. That'll teach him!"

The poor chap could end up with a rape conviction and be on the sex offenders register and possibly also in the red for many many thousands of euros in damages.

Besides, it would actually be illegal for them to have sex. As is the policy on the rest of boards whereby discussing or encouraging illegal activities is against the charter and effectively banned, I wonder should we even be discussing this here.....

This is such a toxic view to have of young women. His girlfriend is far more likely to be sexually assaulted or raped herself than this scenario play out.

The thread title is also creepy. You are discussing an underage teenage girl. She is not a temptress, trying to lead this young lad astray with her good looks. They are in a relationship.

TheBoyConor

It's a bad way to think of women to be fair but these things do happen. So the should protect himself against the possibility.

runningbuddy

PressRun wrote: »

What does her being "Gorgeous" have to do with any of this?

This. Plain people have sex too, you know !

BUBBLES1978

Triangle wrote: »

I have a 16 year old who's very open to these conversations. But I've been having these chats for years with him. Usually when we're going somewhere in the car, just the Two of us.
He always seemed more comfortable talking in the car for some reason. Maybe because I wasn't interrupting him when he was doing something else.
Best of luck with it, maybe light touches in an adult to adult way. Talking about personal stuff first before diving into his personal life.

This is the same and me and my lad who is 16 nearly 17, we always have our chats in the car. its not as tense or embarassing and the conversation just flows,

i have been talking to my son about sex relationships and me not wanting to be a granny for a long time.

pwurple

I can't see what this has to do with his aunt or uncle (whichever you are OP). 

Am I missing something here? Why isn't his father or mother talking to him about it.

SAMTALK

Can't believe the mother hasn't spoken to son already .

I'd take a bit of embarrassment over being called "granny" anyday !

Seriously what's the big drama. Sit him down, talk to him about respect (both for himself and girls), protection against pregnancy and also STD's
My son's girlfriend was mortified when I started talking about condoms in front of her to which I told her it was for her own good as well as my son's and that I hoped she was also using protection.


I would imagine at 16 her son knows more than she thinks he does anyway !

TheBoyConor

It's wrong to tell girls that age to go on the pill. It can't be good for a teenager's body and it's actually very bad for the environment because all those synthetic hormones end up in the rivers. Under 17s should be prevented from having s*x because they are not ready for it and it is illegal. If mortification of them with sheer embarrassing them out of it can do that then that is acceptable in my view.

Could the boy be warned off with asking him how he'd like to be questioned in court by a prosecution for statutory rape, distribution of child p*rnography and also possibly grooming of a child and how he'd feel about being a registered child s*x offender?

That's a fairly nasty criminal record to carry with you for the rest of your life and you'd never be able to go to the USA, Canada or Australia with that.

This could all happen if the girl's parents find out and disapprove or if they see images on her phone?


See this? It can all be consensual between them but all it takes is a diapproving parent to have the boy tried for s. rape. In this case they boy was vulnerable with some mental difficulties but that doesn't appear to have saved him the full rigors of the law for rape.
http://www.thejournal.ie/statutory-rape-boy-concern-2643527-Mar2016/

SAMTALK

TheBoyConor wrote: »

It's wrong to tell girls that age to go on the pill. It can't be good for a teenager's body and it's actually very bad for the environment because all those synthetic hormones end up in the rivers. Under 17s should be prevented from having sex because they are not ready for it and it is illegal.

Best of luck trying to prevent that TheBoyConor

blairbear

TheBoyConor wrote: »

It's wrong to tell girls that age to go on the pill. It can't be good for a teenager's body and it's actually very bad for the environment because all those synthetic hormones end up in the rivers. Under 17s should be prevented from having s*x because they are not ready for it and it is illegal. If mortification of them with sheer embarrassing them out of it can do that then that is acceptable in my view.

Could the boy be warned off with asking him how he'd like to be questioned in court by a prosecution for statutory rape, distribution of child p*rnography and also possibly grooming of a child and how he'd feel about being a registered child s*x offender?

That's a fairly nasty criminal record to carry with you for the rest of your life and you'd never be able to go to the USA, Canada or Australia with that.

This could all happen if the girl's parents find out and disapprove or if they see images on her phone?


See this? It can all be consensual between them but all it takes is a diapproving parent to have the boy tried for s. rape. In this case they boy was vulnerable with some mental difficulties but that doesn't appear to have saved him the full rigors of the law for rape.
http://www.thejournal.ie/statutory-rape-boy-concern-2643527-Mar2016/

Are you a doctor? I am. I presume you have read a plethora of medical evidence to support your belief that the OCP "can't be good for a teenager's body" and that it is "wrong" to advise a sexually active young woman to take responsible precautions to safeguard against a crisis pregnancy.

TheBoyConor

No I am not a doctor but you should ask yourself is it ethical to approve of and encourage an young girl under the age of consent to engage in illegal s*x by advising them to go on the pill?
You also conveniently ignore that the pill is wreaking havoc within aquatic habitats.
She is not a young woman, she is a schoolgirl who really should not be sexually active and nor should the boy because they are under the legal age of consent.

And no I do not think it is good for a teenagers body. It might not be doing any measurable harm to her but by the same token it is not doing her any good either, unless it is needed for a medical reason. For an adult and a Dr to advise her to go on the pill actually encourages her to take on risky s*xual behaviour that also happens to be illega.

GingerLily

TheBoyConor wrote: »

No I am not a doctor but you should ask yourself is it ethical to approve of and encourage an young girl under the age of consent to engage in illegal s*x by advising them to go on the pill?
You also conveniently ignore that the pill is wreaking havoc within aquatic habitats.
She is not a young woman, she is a schoolgirl who really should not be sexually active and nor should the boy because they are under the legal age of consent.

You have no business telling any women or girl what they should or shouldn't do with with bodies.

blairbear

TheBoyConor wrote: »

No I am not a doctor but you should ask yourself is it ethical to approve of and encourage an young girl under the age of consent to engage in illegal s*x by advising them to go on the pill?
You also conveniently ignore that the pill is wreaking havoc within aquatic habitats.
She is not a young woman, she is a schoolgirl who really should not be sexually active and nor should the boy because they are under the legal age of consent.

I couldn't give a monkey's about the effect of the pill on the acquatic habitat to be quite honest.

Doctors adhere to the code of ethics laid out by the Irish Medical Council and we are answerable to them.

Prescribing contraceptives is not encouraging sexual activity.

If there are child protection issues, we subscribe to the mandatory reporting laid out by the TUSLA services.

TheBoyConor

I think it is wrong to give contraception to a girl under the legal age of consent. Because if you do, you are then aware that there is statutory rape taking place and you are effectively turning a blind eye to s*x crimes.

I'm not sure but I'd be interested to know whether knowing the above would technically oblige a person to inform Tusla/Gardai about what is happening because at the end of the day a sexual offence is being commited against a someone who is legall a child. Would this obligation not conflict with a Dr's decision to give a OCP prescription to a minor knowing what it is to be used for.

And to answer your other question, yes I think it is right that both genders are treated equally in relation to distribution of child p*rnography. The girl is just as guilty as the boy here. However, I would also agree with the current legal set up whereby a girl cannot be charged with statutory rape. That is the whole idea of the law - it is to protect girls. At the end of the day girls are the ones at physical risk in these situations either from abusive partners or pregnancy and this law exists so as to not criminalise teenage pregnancy.

TheBoyConor

blairbear wrote: »

I couldn't give a monkey's about the effect of the pill on the acquatic habitat to be quite honest.

Doctors adhere to the code of ethics laid out by the Irish Medical Council and we are answerable to them.

Prescribing contraceptives is not encouraging sexual activity.

If there are child protection issues, we subscribe to the mandatory reporting laid out by the TUSLA services.

How do you square that circle of having a reasonable suspicion that a sexual offence is or is about to be committed against a minor but you refrain from reporting this to Tusla or the Gardai? What threshold would you use as to whether to report/not report?

If two 16 year old girls came in looking for a script, one with a 16 year old male partner, and one with a 56 year old partner. Would you treat them different in any respect?

In your opinion, does statutory rape not constitute a child protection issue?

blairbear

TheBoyConor wrote: »

How do you square that circle of having a reasonable suspicion that a sexual offence is or is about to be committed against a minor but you refrain from reporting this to Tusla or the Gardai? What threshold would you use as to whether to report/not report?

If two 16 year old girls came in looking for a script, one with a 16 year old male partner, and one with a 56 year old partner. Would you treat them different in any respect?

I already answered your questions by saying we adhere to the guidelines laid out by the IMC and TUSLA. You should read them. They are highly comprehensive.

TheBoyConor

I think your position is immoral.

GingerLily

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I think your position is immoral.

I think your position is immoral and irrelevant

TheBoyConor

That's fair enough. Seems the trenches are dug on this one.

blairbear

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I think your position is immoral.

Grand.

TheBoyConor

I wonder would you be this liberal if it was your young daughter with a man you didn't approve of.

eviltwin

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I wonder would you be this liberal if it was your young daughter with a man you didn't approve of.

What exactly can you do? You can't stop your child having sex if they really want to. Better they are protected.

Yeah you can report them but there is a big difference between wanted and unwanted sex. I don't consider a young lad who sleeps with his underage girlfriend to be a criminal and I think it's an insult to those really being abused to waste precious resources on reporting them.

TheBoyConor, that is enough thank you, do not post on this thread again.

Let's all get back on topic on how to give advice to the OP, not debate whether contraception is okay.

thanks

AndrewJRenko

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I think your position is immoral.

I think your position is impractical. Parents have tried for generations to get their teenage kids or young adults to not have sex by scaring them off. It doesn't work.

Condoms, condoms, condoms....

Keep them safe.

goose2005

what is the obsession with statutory rape here? the boy is fifteen, for all we know she could be older than him

edit: i didn't actually know this but

Ireland does not have a close-in-age exemption. Close in age exemptions, commonly known as "Romeo and Juliet laws" in the United States, are put in place to prevent the prosecution of individuals who engage in consensual sexual activity when both participants are significantly close in age to each other, and one or both partners are below the age of consent.

Because there is no close-in-age exemption in Ireland, it is possible for two individuals both under the age of 17 who willingly engage in intercourse to both be prosecuted for statutory rape, although this is rare. Similarly, no protections are reserved for sexual relations in which one participant is a 16 year old and the second is a 17 or 18 year old.